Gerrymandering

#26
#26
evillawyer said:
So certain Americans (Washingtonians, Puerto Ricans) shouldn't have representation in Congress?
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That's not their goal and you know it. DC is set up in a specific way and so is PR. This is about buying votes of poor people which the Dems love to do with tax dollars they stole from others
 
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#31
#31
utvolpj said:
That's not their goal and you know it. DC is set up in a specific way and so is PR. This is about buying votes of poor people which the Dems love to do with tax dollars they stole from others
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Why even play her loaded question game? 🤷‍♂️
 
#32
#32
evillawyer said:
Time for Republicans to win the only way they know how: cheating
The Gerrymander Battles Loom, as G.O.P. Looks to Press Its Advantage https://nyti.ms/3j54Z0H
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According to those who favor Ds:

Republican "Gerrymandering" is bad, evil, corrupt and cheating.

Democrat "Redistricting" is good, noble, healthy and lawful.

But both parties do it. To think one does it for an advantage in power and the other does it for altruism is asinine. The party which controls the legislature controls the process of deciding the voting district. Therefore there is no cheating. The word itself, "Cheating", is inflammatory.
There is a mechanism to challenge when voting districts exist unjustly. Texas had such a case go to SCOTUS a few years ago. The voters, candidate, and party which feels "cheated" has recourse to challenge and win when valid cheating exists.

So, why is it neither party and their candidates challenge the districts when the "cheating" is so widespread, unjust, and one-sided?
 
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#33
#33
evillawyer said:
So certain Americans (Washingtonians, Puerto Ricans) shouldn't have representation in Congress?
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Are Washingtonians not citizens of an existing state? Does that state not have congressional elections?

Why should Puerto Ricans have representation at the Federal level when they do not pay Federal taxes?
 
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#34
#34
McDad said:
Are Washingtonians not citizens of an existing state? Does that state not have congressional elections?

Why should Puerto Ricans have representation at the Federal level when they do not pay Federal taxes?
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It’s such a disingenuous argument. The Constitution clearly lays out the rules. People move there knowing the situation and then bitch about it.

Reminds me of idiots that move near an airport where property values are normally lower and then complain about aircraft noise. Idiots.
 
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#35
#35
McDad said:
According to those who favor Ds:

Republican "Gerrymandering" is bad, evil, corrupt and cheating.

Democrat "Redistricting" is good, noble, healthy and lawful.

But both parties do it. To think one does it for an advantage in power and the other does it for altruism is asinine. The party which controls the legislature controls the process of deciding the voting district. Therefore there is no cheating. The word itself, "Cheating", is inflammatory.
There is a mechanism to challenge when voting districts exist unjustly. Texas had such a case go to SCOTUS a few years ago. The voters, candidate, and party which feels "cheated" has recourse to challenge and win when valid cheating exists.

So, why is it neither party and their candidates challenge the districts when the "cheating" is so widespread, unjust, and one-sided?
Click to expand...

There are ways to do that are fair to both parties. Dems are in favor of doing it through non-partisan commissions. Guess who doesn't want to do that? And guess why?
 
#36
#36
Here's a thought experiment to consider. The US population is diverse. It may be the most diverse population on Earth. That diversity is quantified in our census. Demographic percentages are calculable on age, gender, ethnicity, and other factors.

I propose each voting district be compromised of voters who adhere to those demographic proportions. Considering the impact on the ethnicity of the voting district, no district would have a higher percentage of voters who are a minority ethnicity than a white ethnicity.

Would you favor or oppose such a plan on voting districts?
 
#37
#37
evillawyer said:
There are ways to do that are fair to both parties. Dems are in favor of doing it through non-partisan commissions. Guess who doesn't want to do that? And guess why?
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Then Ds can prove a harm to unrepresented voters, and to their candidates before SCOTUS.

Where are all the lawsuits currently challenging the district boundaries? Where are all the SCOTUS rulings ordering the "fair" redistricting Ds seek?
 
#38
#38
McDad said:
Then Ds can prove a harm to unrepresented voters, and to their candidates before SCOTUS.

Where are all the lawsuits currently challenging the district boundaries? Where are all the SCOTUS rulings ordering the "fair" redistricting Ds seek?
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PA recently had to redistrict based on a court ruling...
 
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#39
#39
OHvol40 said:
PA recently had to redistrict based on a court ruling...
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Was that ruling at the state level or did it go before SCOTUS?

ETA: Never mind. I found it. 2018. Ruled at the state level.
 
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#40
#40
#41
#41
evillawyer said:
This is just one of many solutions out there. It's not an intractable problem. What's intractable is that the GOP knows the only way it can win with it's shrinking demographic is to put their thumbs on the scale.

"I-Cut-You-Choose" Cake-Cutting Protocol Inspires Solution to Gerrymandering - News - Carnegie Mellon University
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When searching the term Gerrymandering, non-partisan resources refer to it as manipulating boundaries to influence control by a political party. Notice how those resources don't say R or D party? Every objective person knows why it isn't classified as a tactic only found in one party.
 
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#42
#42
McDad said:
When searching the term Gerrymandering, non-partisan resources refer to it as manipulating boundaries to influence control by a political party. Notice how those resources don't say R or D party? Every objective person knows why it isn't classified as a tactic only found in one party.
Click to expand...
Regardless of who is doing the gerrymandering, it’s a big problem. Ohio is a great example of candidates choosing their constituents rather than the other way around. Here is Ohio’s congressional district map...

B0356F6C-B3BB-48D1-8B7E-1F1EBA0F3C02.png

It’s clearly made to isolate urban populations to the smallest amount of influence possible.
Look at Jim Jordan’s district, it’s the most illogical map you could possibly create and so obviously avoids any population centers and college towns like Findlay and Bowling Green.

2A6CA1D6-A970-4797-831F-5E68B476B670.png
 
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#44
#44
OHvol40 said:
Regardless of who is doing the gerrymandering, it’s a big problem. Ohio is a great example of candidates choosing their constituents rather than the other way around. Here is Ohio’s congressional district map...

View attachment 347519

It’s clearly made to isolate urban populations to the smallest amount of influence possible.
Look at Jim Jordan’s district, it’s the most illogical map you could possibly create and so obviously avoids any population centers and college towns like Findlay and Bowling Green.

View attachment 347528
Click to expand...

It looks like a zoning for high school football
 
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#45
#45
OHvol40 said:
Regardless of who is doing the gerrymandering, it’s a big problem. Ohio is a great example of candidates choosing their constituents rather than the other way around. Here is Ohio’s congressional district map...

View attachment 347519

It’s clearly made to isolate urban populations to the smallest amount of influence possible.
Look at Jim Jordan’s district, it’s the most illogical map you could possibly create and so obviously avoids any population centers and college towns like Findlay and Bowling Green.

View attachment 347528
Click to expand...

And besides the general unfairness of gerrymandering, it only further exacerbates ideological divisions. If "safe districts" are created, there are countervailing, balancing forces that could lead candidates to moderate their positions because they're in safe districts where they only have to appeal to their base.
 
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#46
#46
OHvol40 said:
Regardless of who is doing the gerrymandering, it’s a big problem. Ohio is a great example of candidates choosing their constituents rather than the other way around. Here is Ohio’s congressional district map...

View attachment 347519

It’s clearly made to isolate urban populations to the smallest amount of influence possible.
Look at Jim Jordan’s district, it’s the most illogical map you could possibly create and so obviously avoids any population centers and college towns like Findlay and Bowling Green.

View attachment 347528
Click to expand...
Would you favor creating districts which adhere to the demographic percentages which are present in the US according to census data?
 
#49
#49
We need to remove the desire to remain in congress forever, only then will this not be an issue. We can't even get our elected persons to do what we want and yet the dumb people still vote for them in the hopes of free crap. Now that I'm a senior, gimme my free sh!t and I'll vote for you.
 
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#50
#50
VolStrom said:
We need to remove the desire to remain in congress forever, only then will this not be an issue. We can't even get our elected persons to do what we want and yet the dumb people still vote for them in the hopes of free crap. Now that I'm a senior, gimme my free sh!t and I'll vote for you.
Click to expand...

^^The bold is the simplest and quickest fix.
 
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