Finebaum: Shoop needs to go

#28
#28
volfannbama said:
You honestly think he had better athletes at Vandy and first year at PSU than he does here? Lol
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No. That's kind of the point. Sans Jumper, he's never coached better athletes.

My only guess, and just a guess is CBJ isnt letting them run the defense, in which case he needs to go.
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I don't know. That's the question to me. I do think that Jumper appeals to Jones in that mid-major, champions of life, "Rudy" sort of way.

I just find it really hard to believe that Shoop would look at this team and think that he didn't have to get someone better than Jumper ready to back up DKjr.
 
#29
#29
Unreal at the talk of firing anyone while you are sitting at 2-0 and fresh off a win that was never in doubt. I remember people wanting Wilcox gone after a short time and we ended up with Sunseri. Let us lose a damn game due to defense first before we jump off a cliff.
 
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#30
#30
VolinMichigan said:
It's absurd to be talking about firing Shoop 2 games into the season without anybody close to capable on staff of filling in.
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By capable, what exactly does that mean? I mean i could couch Tennessees defense to their current result of allowing record setting performances in nearly all of the last 15 games. And i wouldnt charge nearly as much.
 
#31
#31
volfannbama said:
So we have to wait 1.5 seasons to know something about the d?
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Well... we supposedly have to wait 6 years to know anything about the HC....

I'd actually like to see if Shoop improves the D over this season. I don't think he had much control over the injuries last year or the roster this year. I'd like a better sample set than last year's triage and 2 games this year.
 
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#33
#33
VolinMichigan said:
It's absurd to be talking about firing Shoop 2 games into the season without anybody close to capable on staff to fill in.
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I'm not at all in favor of firing Shoop at this point... but Hoke would be sufficient to finish out the season at a minimum.
 
#34
#34
sjt18 said:
No. That's kind of the point. Sans Jumper, he's never coached better athletes.


I don't know. That's the question to me. I do think that Jumper appeals to Jones in that mid-major, champions of life, "Rudy" sort of way.

I just find it really hard to believe that Shoop would look at this team and think that he didn't have to get someone better than Jumper ready to back up DKjr.
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CJ is an average player but he is not the reason our defense has historically bad performances in nearly all of the last 15 games.

And i dont get your point if you are saying he needs a stacked deck but then you say he has never had better athletes?
 
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#39
#39
volfannbama said:
Sure i could, why couldnt i let offenses have record setting performances almost every week? So can you.
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How many record performances has our defense given up in the last 2 years? Also keep in mind last year we were hammered with injuries of #1s on that side of the ball. I'll give you GT
 
#40
#40
BearCat204 said:
The fact that you think you could do equal or better is a clear indicator that you don't know everything involved in coaching at this level.
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Where did i say i could do better? Right now nearly every school we go against sets a school record on offense, im saying i could coach or defense to do that.
 
#42
#42
volfannbama said:
So we have to wait 1.5 seasons to know something about the d?
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I take it that math wasn't a good subject for you.
That is only about 5 weeks away.
We play Florida, Georgia, and USC jr between this week and 10/14. We are either going to be 3-0,2-1,1-2, or 0-3 is SEC play. These are the three strongest competitors for us in the east. These are must wins for us. So yes we will know a lot about this team after these three games.
 
#43
#43
midtnvol2 said:
I take it that math wasn't a good subject for you.
That is only about 5 weeks away.
We play Florida, Georgia, and USC jr between this week and 10/14. We are either going to be 3-0,2-1,1-2, or 0-3 is SEC play. These are the three strongest competitors for us in the east. These are must wins for us. So yes we will know a lot about this team after these three games.
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Which is roughly half the season correct?
 
#44
#44
secking said:
I tend to look at how the previous school performs after the coach leaves. PSU has got a LOT better since Shoop. It's the reason they should've made the CFP over OSU last year.
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Penn State played the following teams with a pulse last year.

Pitt - Gave up 42
Temple - Gave up 27
Michigan - Gave up 49
Ohio State - Gave up 21
Wisconsin - Gave up 31
USC - Gave up 52

In the 6 teams with a pulse, PSU gave up 37 points a game. PSU did what they did last year in spite of their D.
 
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#47
#47
I think it would be a mistake to let him go, at this point. I can't say any reasonable person would be happy with the total yards we're giving up per game, but (and I hate to use the injury excuse) we've lost some KEY guys on every level of defense last year and this year, not to mention the ones in the NFL.
And I would argue letting a dc go during the season is a last effort to cover the head coach's arse.
 
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#48
#48
volfannbama said:
CJ is an average player but he is not the reason our defense has historically bad performances in nearly all of the last 15 games.

And i dont get your point if you are saying he needs a stacked deck but then you say he has never had better athletes?
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I didn't say he needed a "stacked deck". I said he needed better players... either the ability to play the ones he has or players that Jones didn't recruit and develop before Shoop arrived.

I have said my piece multiple times on Jones ultimately being responsible for the injuries last year. That does not mean I would hold Shoop to the same level of accountability. Other than not substituting enough... He didn't have much control over that roster or its development.

I think this is by far the most talent he's had on a roster he's coached... I'm just not sure the best players are playing.

I just have a hard time imaging someone with Shoop's level of previous success wouldn't know he needed a better player at MLB than Jumper. I don't hate the guy but labeling him "average" as an athlete is being WAY too kind. He's slow and not very physical.

UT for about 6 games or so can't stop the run. You have a starting DL of former 5* players. You have some highly rated LB's on the roster who have the measureables. You have a talented secondary. IMO, the weak link is LB and specifically MLB. That's why they can't stop the run... and they can't become a better D until they stop the run.
 
#50
#50
i'm still willing to see what kind of adjustments are going to be made from the 1st two weeks to what we might see headed in to SEC play.

the two gimmicky offense we played, one being a glorified scrimmage, given all basic fronts, looks and personnel groupings we've played, no blitzing etc...there's just no way that's the plan going forward. no way. it was the plan up to this point....

i think for the most part there's an over reaction to sheer numbers being put up, and the visible lack of effort being put forth to dictate anything on defense. if you want to argue the merits of this plan up to this point, fine. but if i'm hanging my hat on something, it's that i believe what we've seen (formation, personnel, scheme wise) has been deliberate.

i'm definitely in the camp that says 'wait and see'. that doesn't mean that the results shouldn't change...quick.
 
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