Federal Death Tax

#51
#51
McDad said:
The absurd amount of money which flows into politics is disgusting. It flows into politics because we (collectively) have given scoundrels, harlots, liars, vipers, egomaniacs, and their ilk the power to drastically influence our lives (personally and professionally). So, if my industry is facing harmful legislation or regulation, i fight. My ammunition is money.
Whenever a handout or break is offered, i take it. Because if i dont, my competitors will (if they haven't already). And the political class is adept at pitting one group's fears against another. The ruling elites need to be stripped of 90% of their power. And since money is the language of power, i am for reducing all taxes no matter which private citizens benefit. Once their power is gone, people will stop protecting themselves with cronyism. I would much rather have billions in the hands of corrupt private individuals than in the hands of corrupt politicians.
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Great response. Maybe starving the gov of tax money would help reverse that.

Why not outlaw this blatant legal practice of bribing instead of playing along though?
 
#52
#52
#VFL__ said:
Yep, nothing other than a 100% UNITED movement will save our country. It is that damn simple. I don't want to grow up in a country that is controlled by a select few. I really don't and I'm willing to bet that most others don't either. So I guess we will just wait around until we have to have a full out revolt in our country before we make the change.
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I think a revolt will eventually happen although probably not for a long while. Assuming we don't get overrun first or China doesn't seize us.
 
#53
#53
#VFL__ said:
Great response. Maybe starving the gov of tax money would help reverse that.

Why not outlaw this blatant legal practice of bribing instead of playing along though?
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Because drug laws, gun laws, tax laws and all laws have proven that people will find a way around. And they will pursue all grey areas, loopholes, push all boundaries, create new ways of transferring cash and when all else fails they will do it illegally.
 
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#54
#54
McDad said:
You have a myopic view of "the rich" business owners. I work with busines owners, who are professionals (spent years and thousands obtaining advanced degrees). Most make sure their employees are paid first, before they ever take any money home. And if they have to downsize their labor, they take it seriously and solemnly.
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I would make the argument we are arguing about the scale definition of the words "business and corporations" While i used both before, in this case i will use the term corporation to signify huge companies. so yes in this case not all business owners work that way, I personally know some that do take care of their own. It may also be the difference of what the company does, if it is a maker then yes they are more likely to keep their people happy but if its the service/support industry those jobs will drop like flies at the drop of a hat.

But when you consider the corporations (read: really big entities) that answer to share holders and profit margins they do not care. Look at the bank bailout, the first dollars off the bailout went to giving the upper echelons bonuses. In this one case yes the government royally screwed the pooch by letting them use the money that way. I have several anecdotes of family members losing their job because XYZ Chemical Corporation profit margin dipped below 10% of their gross income. These are businesses with billions of dollars at play that pay their top people millions of dollars, it doesn't have to be that way, look up the owner of Costco, IIRC he pays himself something like 400,000 a year. while Costco isn't on the uber scale I think its large enough to make the point that it can work.
 
#55
#55
McDad said:
Because drug laws, gun laws, tax laws and all laws have proven that people will find a way around. And they will pursue all grey areas, loopholes, push all boundaries, create new ways of transferring cash and when all else fails they will do it illegally.
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so because we don't live in a perfect world we shouldn't try to better the system? you argument can be taken a step farther, people are still murdered so should we get rid of those laws? people drink and drive should we get rid of those laws? companies still pollute so should we allow them to dump sludge in our rivers?
 
#56
#56
LouderVol said:
so because we don't live in a perfect world we shouldn't try to better the system? you argument can be taken a step farther, people are still murdered so should we get rid of those laws? people drink and drive should we get rid of those laws? companies still pollute so should we allow them to dump sludge in our rivers?
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you could take the argument a step further. The difference is that most murderers, and polluters are not in the political ruling class. There is little hope of the ruling class policing themselves. There is also no hope they will pass laws against their own interests. For example: do you remember the "scandal" a few years ago where members of the house were voting on legislation favorable to specific businesses? Some of those same members were trading stocks and profiting based on the votes happening behind closed doors. How many were tried and convicted of insider trading? What would happen if the average citizen did the same?
 
#57
#57
McDad said:
you could take the argument a step further. The difference is that most murderers, and polluters are not in the political ruling class. There is little hope of the ruling class policing themselves. There is also no hope they will pass laws against their own interests. For example: do you remember the "scandal" a few years ago where members of the house were voting on legislation favorable to specific businesses? Some of those same members were trading stocks and profiting based on the votes happening behind closed doors. How many were tried and convicted of insider trading? What would happen if the average citizen did the same?
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So why is it that we continue to allow this?
 
#58
#58
LouderVol said:
I would make the argument we are arguing about the scale definition of the words "business and corporations" While i used both before, in this case i will use the term corporation to signify huge companies. so yes in this case not all business owners work that way, I personally know some that do take care of their own. It may also be the difference of what the company does, if it is a maker then yes they are more likely to keep their people happy but if its the service/support industry those jobs will drop like flies at the drop of a hat.

But when you consider the corporations (read: really big entities) that answer to share holders and profit margins they do not care. Look at the bank bailout, the first dollars off the bailout went to giving the upper echelons bonuses. In this one case yes the government royally screwed the pooch by letting them use the money that way. I have several anecdotes of family members losing their job because XYZ Chemical Corporation profit margin dipped below 10% of their gross income. These are businesses with billions of dollars at play that pay their top people millions of dollars, it doesn't have to be that way, look up the owner of Costco, IIRC he pays himself something like 400,000 a year. while Costco isn't on the uber scale I think its large enough to make the point that it can work.
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The owner, Costco gone private?
 
#59
#59
#VFL__ said:
So why is it that we continue to allow this?
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Million dollar question, right there, my friend. I wish I knew. Until we (a group of citizens) decide to put aside our own differences with each other and attempt to tackle the corruption and abuse of power, nothing will change. Sadly, most attempts to de-centralize power are met with intense rhetoric from the power brokers. We are told that without the ruling class the vunerable, and the historically oppressed will suffer without the overlords protection.
 
#60
#60
McDad said:
Million dollar question, right there, my friend. I wish I knew. Until we (a group of citizens) decide to put aside our own differences with each other and attempt to tackle the corruption and abuse of power, nothing will change. Sadly, most attempts to de-centralize power are met with intense rhetoric from the power brokers. We are told that without the ruling class the vunerable, and the historically oppressed will suffer without the overlords protection.
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Well I think we are starting to see hope in unification then. This election could be the eye test for citizens that support functioning gov. Obama can refuse to sign every proposal but the fate of his last two years will be laid at the GOPs feet. They will have the power to make changes that we can all see and feel. Which is all that I ask of these people. These interests are not conservative or liberal in their basis either. Just simple common sense measures that can boost our moral and our lives. Medical debt, student debt, drug laws, tax laws, and other real world issues that face millions of us on a daily basis. Let's see if they step up to the task or will they bow to their donors. What do you think? I have a weird positive hope for some reason.
 
#61
#61
#VFL__ said:
Well I think we are starting to see hope in unification then. This election could be the eye test for citizens that support functioning gov. Obama can refuse to sign every proposal but the fate of his last two years will be laid at the GOPs feet. They will have the power to make changes that we can all see and feel. Which is all that I ask of these people. These interests are not conservative or liberal in their basis either. Just simple common sense measures that can boost our moral and our lives. Medical debt, student debt, drug laws, tax laws, and other real world issues that face millions of us on a daily basis. Let's see if they step up to the task or will they bow to their donors. What do you think? I have a weird positive hope for some reason.
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I used to be more optimistic than I am now. You and I may want different things, though.
 
#62
#62
#VFL__ said:
Well I think we are starting to see hope in unification then. This election could be the eye test for citizens that support functioning gov. Obama can refuse to sign every proposal but the fate of his last two years will be laid at the GOPs feet. They will have the power to make changes that we can all see and feel. Which is all that I ask of these people. These interests are not conservative or liberal in their basis either. Just simple common sense measures that can boost our moral and our lives. Medical debt, student debt, drug laws, tax laws, and other real world issues that face millions of us on a daily basis. Let's see if they step up to the task or will they bow to their donors. What do you think? I have a weird positive hope for some reason.
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What do you expect any politician to do with these? It's debt, you pay it off.
 
#63
#63
hog88 said:
What do you expect any politician to do with these? It's debt, you pay it off.
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Simply put, I don't expect people to make money off of either of these? I don't think in 2014, a person's life should be ruined because of a medical condition. I believe that we can figure out better ways to get people into college and pay for it with things other than sky high interests rates.
 
#64
#64
McDad said:
I used to be more optimistic than I am now. You and I may want different things, though.
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What is it that you want then? I want people who care about their citizens to be elected, I want the freedom to what I choose, and I want the gov out of my life. I love paying taxes and have no problem with paying my share to fund this great experiment. I want others to pay also and the "rich" shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to dodge their duty as tax payers as well. Beach ball issues such as gay marriage, abortion and gun laws are things that I'm honestly tired of hearing about.
 
#65
#65
#VFL__ said:
Simply put, I don't expect people to make money off of either of these? I don't think in 2014, a person's life should be ruined because of a medical condition. I believe that we can figure out better ways to get people into college and pay for it with things other than sky high interests rates.
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I could be wrong but I don't think interest can be levied on medial bills. As for student loan debt, or the most part that is the result of stupid decisions and and planning.
 
#66
#66
hog88 said:
I could be wrong but I don't think interest can be levied on medial bills. As for student loan debt, or the most part that is the result of stupid decisions and and planning.
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I didn't mention interest rates on medical bills. The fact that they charge insane amounts for things such as Tylenol is more along the lines of my thinking. Just my opinion of course! Secondly, pursing an education is never stupid. We were told to go to college throughout life so I don't think these people are "stupid" for trying. You are right though, a lot of people can not afford it and simply should have planned differently. We also should have addressed this better while raising the past couple of generations.
 
#67
#67
#VFL__ said:
I didn't mention interest rates on medical bills. The fact that they charge insane amounts for things such as Tylenol is more along the lines of my thinking. Just my opinion of course! Secondly, pursing an education is never stupid. We were told to go to college throughout life so I don't think these people are "stupid" for trying. You are right though, a lot of people can not afford it and simply should have planned differently. We also should have addressed this better while raising the past couple of generations.
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Where did I say going to college is stupid, it's not for everyone but certainly not stupid. Stupid is taking out enormous loans to pay for college, a college you cannot afford when there are other options available to reach the same goal.
 
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#68
#68
#VFL__ said:
What is it that you want then? I want people who care about their citizens to be elected, I want the freedom to what I choose, and I want the gov out of my life. I love paying taxes and have no problem with paying my share to fund this great experiment. I want others to pay also and the "rich" shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to dodge their duty as tax payers as well. Beach ball issues such as gay marriage, abortion and gun laws are things that I'm honestly tired of hearing about.
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Let's look at one of these things and compare to other posts. Because, in all honesty, I want the same as you. You and I have freedom to go to college. We also gave freedom to take out loans with clearly defined interest rates. If we cannot afford college, we have other choices that do not require indebtedness. If we ask the corrupt political class to get involved, they will. Involvement comes in forms of legislation, and regulation. This gives them power. More power over our lives means more contributions from citizens, groups, and businesses which try to protect themselves and their (financial) interests. It's a cycle that must stop with you and I because there is no chance it will start with the whores in DC.
 
#69
#69
hog88 said:
Where did I say going to college is stupid, it's not for everyone but certainly not stupid. Stupid is taking out enormous loans to pay for college, a college you cannot afford when there are other options available to reach the same goal.
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Well historically that's just how it went. Drs don't get to take short cuts, if you want the best you have to pay for the best. Even these fields feel the pressure of student debt. Interest rates are the problem and they were designed to make as much money as possible. I guess my problem is allowing already rich institutions to make money off of people in predatory ways. 18 year old kids do not understand life much less the outcome of student loans.
Which is exactly why the new community college legislation was much needed and will hopefully help. It's all about our investment into our fellow citizens.
 
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#70
#70
LouderVol said:
lol at death tax misnomer. it taxes you for receiving goods valued OVER 5.34 million, just like winning the lotto or on a game show, you owe taxes. and most of the time when the original family owner dies and passes it on if the next generation takes it public its usually not because they are hurting but because they see quick way to get more money. i would like proof where the financial burden of the 'death tax' made a family sell.
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Unfortunately it killed the family farms around here. Anyone with a farm over 500 acres could easily top the 5+mill limit, meaning their heirs would owe half to the government when they passed. So those with multiple kids could break up the farms and somewhat keep the place together, so long as all the kids kept things the same. Otherwise the heirs have had to sell large portions of their land just to pay the tax. For most of us middle class folks, the tax won't really affect us, but it has hurt the family owned farming industry.
 
#71
#71
YorkVol said:
Unfortunately it killed the family farms around here. Anyone with a farm over 500 acres could easily top the 5+mill limit, meaning their heirs would owe half to the government when they passed. So those with multiple kids could break up the farms and somewhat keep the place together, so long as all the kids kept things the same. Otherwise the heirs have had to sell large portions of their land just to pay the tax. For most of us middle class folks, the tax won't really affect us, but it has hurt the family owned farming industry.
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you divide it up, then you can parse it back together afterwards. The estate tax has been in effect since 1916, got reworked in 86. its not like this is a new issue. or one unique to the US. I am not saying its fun or even fair, but the rules are the rules. you get the law changed if you don't like it. I also believe there are ways to get local ordinances/communities to counter that law, but that may be me talking out of my rear.
 
#72
#72
LouderVol said:
you divide it up, then you can parse it back together afterwards. The estate tax has been in effect since 1916, got reworked in 86. its not like this is a new issue. or one unique to the US. I am not saying its fun or even fair, but the rules are the rules. you get the law changed if you don't like it. I also believe there are ways to get local ordinances/communities to counter that law, but that may be me talking out of my rear.
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You are.
 
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#74
#74
#VFL__ said:
What is it that you want then? I want people who care about their citizens to be elected, I want the freedom to what I choose, and I want the gov out of my life. I love paying taxes and have no problem with paying my share to fund this great experiment. I want others to pay also and the "rich" shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to dodge their duty as tax payers as well. Beach ball issues such as gay marriage, abortion and gun laws are things that I'm honestly tired of hearing about.
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rich people afforded the opportunity to dodge their duty to pay taxes eh? My guess is your not a business owner.
Do you have any idea how much of a tax burden a small business owner is burdened with? If you did you'd probably STFU
 
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#75
#75
Carl Pickens said:
rich people afforded the opportunity to dodge their duty to pay taxes eh? My guess is your not a business owner.
Do you have any idea how much of a tax burden a small business owner is burdened with? If you did you'd probably STFU
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Hire some illegal Mexicans
 
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