Federal Death Tax

#26
#26
Ernest T. Vol said:
Tax his land, tax his wage,
Tax his bed in which he lays.
Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
Teach him taxes is the rule.
Tax his cow, tax his goat,
Tax his pants, tax his coat.
Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
Tax his work, tax his dirt.
Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
Teach him taxes are no joke.
Tax his car, tax his ass
Tax the roads he must pass.
Tax his tobacco, tax his drink,
Tax him if he tries to think.
Tax his booze, tax his beers,
If he cries, tax his tears.
Tax his bills, tax his gas,
Tax his notes, tax his cash.
Tax him good and let him know
That after taxes, he has no dough.
If he hollers, tax him more,
Tax him until he's good and sore.
Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
Tax the sod in which he lays.
Put these words upon his tomb,
"Taxes drove me to my doom!"
And when he's gone, we won't relax,
We'll still be after the inheritance TAX!
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Nice.
 
#27
#27
McDad said:
Your anecdote is a wonderful illustration between tax law and taxation. Many people, including some in this very thread, falsely equate tax law with guaranteed state money in the bank (as well as funding for sacred cows, creating equity between the haves and have nots, and sticking it to the evil rich). Taxation is a different animal entirely. People will take all reasonable measures to avoid, delay, and offset their tax burden. Supporters of new tax laws and those who support retaining current tax laws espouse the projected revenues as if it is a foregone conclusion. Your family is living proof that isn't the case at all. In fact, a case could be made that all taxation unfairly puts burdens on the poor because the poor dont have the means to pay for CPAs, tax attorneys, financial planning experts which help move assets and create structures which minimize tax liability. Furthermore, anyone can look up the average tax collected through the decades and discover that Americans pay about 18% on average. This percentage has been relatively constant no matter the fluctuationing tax rates and the addition of new tax laws.
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so this estate tax which hits after 5.34 million targets the poor? in my anecdote my grandfather put 8 kids through college, wealthy he was not but doing quite fine he is. i will agree that the rich to get too many work arounds from the taxes
 
#28
#28
hog88 said:
Point being is it shouldn't be nessasary. My dad had to buy the farm from my GPs me and my brothers will have to buy it from him to keep it operating as a farm. All that accomplishes is employing attorneys and accountants for something that should be a non issue!
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got to love the government, my dad, the CPA so one of the 'beneficiaries' of the jacked up tax laws, has always said 90% of laws are about keeping 10% of people in power while the other 10% of laws are a mask to keep 90% of people from complaining.
 
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#29
#29
LouderVol said:
got to love the government, my dad, the CPA so one of the 'beneficiaries' of the jacked up tax laws, has always said 90% of laws are about keeping 10% of people in power while the other 10% of laws are a mask to keep 90% of people from complaining.
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But make sure to keep voting! That's how we really get different results.
 
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#32
#32
hog88 said:
By not voting you absolutely ensure nothing changes.
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I get this argument. I really do. I'll stand by my belief that if someone were to actually want to change these things; the would never even make it on the ballot. That's just my opinion of course.
 
#33
#33
#VFL__ said:
I get this argument. I really do. I'll stand by my belief that if someone were to actually want to change these things; the would never even make it on the ballot. That's just my opinion of course.
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The problem with your thinking if people that do want change refuses to vote, nothing will never change. If I do like the 2 major party candidates I vote for a third party if I think he/she is the better person for the job. If enough people start voting their conscience instead of party line we could get change.
 
#34
#34
#VFL__ said:
I get this argument. I really do. I'll stand by my belief that if someone were to actually want to change these things; the would never even make it on the ballot. That's just my opinion of course.
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In a national election I agree but at the local or even House Rep level they can. That is one of the reasons I fully support repealing the 17th amendment and going back to the founders model.
 
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#35
#35
hog88 said:
In a national election I agree but at the local or even House Rep level they can. That is one of the reasons I fully support repealing the 17th amendment and going back to the founders model.
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Okay so I'll ask you this: do you believe that our representatives control what goes on in our country? Of course they may hold hearings and ask questions, but do you think that they have the ability to correct things?
 
#36
#36
#VFL__ said:
Okay so I'll ask you this: do you believe that our representatives control what goes on in our country? Of course they may hold hearings and ask questions, but do you think that they have the ability to correct things?
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They have the ability and power per the constitution to do so, yes. They have chosen not to use the power or secede the power.
 
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#37
#37
LouderVol said:
so this estate tax which hits after 5.34 million targets the poor? in my anecdote my grandfather put 8 kids through college, wealthy he was not but doing quite fine he is. i will agree that the rich to get too many work arounds from the taxes
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Don't be coy.
 
#38
#38
hog88 said:
They have the ability and power per the constitution to do so, yes. They have chosen not to use the power or secede the power.
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So it sounds like you understand where I'm coming from in some way?

I agree if we as a nation stopped voting for politicians that use the same issues every election as "beach balls" to bounce back and forth. We might see some real progress. I'm sorry but our country waking up tomorrow and having an IQ that is above average, just is not going to happen. That's what is needed for us to restore the value of voting. Therefore electing one or two honest non corrupted individuals will never do anything!

Now everyone waking up tomorrow and saying you know what? I'm not going to go to work today, I'm not going to pay these people my hard earned money anymore, and I'm damn sure not going to continue going through the motions when I know so much more is possible. That right there is a vote that will actually enact change. It's happened before, if we want what's better we have to get on our feet and make it happen.
 
#39
#39
McDad said:
Don't be coy.
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most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
 
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#40
#40
LouderVol said:
most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
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As history has showed us time, time, and time again.
 
#41
#41
LouderVol said:
most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
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Only the rich? Man what is your definition of rich?
 
#42
#42
LouderVol said:
most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
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You have a myopic view of "the rich" business owners. I work with busines owners, who are professionals (spent years and thousands obtaining advanced degrees). Most make sure their employees are paid first, before they ever take any money home. And if they have to downsize their labor, they take it seriously and solemnly.
 
#43
#43
LouderVol said:
most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
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Additionally, if prosperity doesn't trickle down in our economy how can your reasonably contend that poverty/taxation/burdens do?
 
#44
#44
McDad said:
You have a myopic view of "the rich" business owners. I work with busines owners, who are professionals (spent years and thousands obtaining advanced degrees). Most make sure their employees are paid first, before they ever take any money home. And if they have to downsize their labor, they take it seriously and solemnly.
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I highly doubt you are bumping shoulders with the "rich" business owners that meet behind closed doors with our reps. Two very different echelons of business owners.
 
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#45
#45
LouderVol said:
most of the extra taxes people complain about only hit the 'rich'. the only way some/most of these taxes hurt the lower/middle classes is that when the rich are hit by a tax instead of taking a smaller profit margin they instead profess it would close down business to pay that rate and then fire people to make up the difference. most of these rich (business running) people 'have' to make 30 million a year and if that means firing 300 people so be it, as long as they aren't effected. businesses and corporations work in the same trickle down manner the government alludes to and it works just as well. corporations and congress work the same way, guaranteed benefits so they don't care how bad it gets for the common people.
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You just explained the uselessness of Corp taxes without knowing it. No one is going to willingly accept less revenue simply because their expenses go up. To believe otherwise is extremely naive.

Corporations don't pay taxes
 
#46
#46
#VFL__ said:
I highly doubt you are bumping shoulders with the "rich" business owners that meet behind closed doors with our reps. Two very different echelons of business owners.
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Maybe you are, then? Are there some cutthroat, cold hearted, basterds out there? Sure. Labor is a valuable and expensive resource and most people who are savvy enough to accumulate millions are savvy enough to appreciate quality workers. To assume that all rich are only concerned about how laws effect themselves is absurd.
 
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#47
#47
McDad said:
Maybe you are, then? Are there some cutthroat, cold hearted, basterds out there? Sure. Labor is a valuable and expensive resource and most people who are savvy enough to accumulate millions are savvy enough to appreciate quality workers. To assume that all rich are only concerned about how laws effect themselves is absurd.
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Why is that absurd!?! Do you think the absurd amount of money flowing into politics is for another reason?

Why is it that our reps voted to give tax breaks to companies shipping jobs over seas?? That's a simple one. The information is out there if you look for it. Follow the money and you will see for yourself exactly what kind of control these people have that you and I do not have. I don't remember reading a part in the constitution that gives people who create "jobs" more power than those who fill those jobs.

And yes I have a huge tinfoil cowboy hat on right now.
 
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#48
#48
#VFL__ said:
I get this argument. I really do. I'll stand by my belief that if someone were to actually want to change these things; the would never even make it on the ballot. That's just my opinion of course.
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We are too far gone that's for sure & it's only getting worse.
 
#49
#49
govols/cc said:
We are too far gone that's for sure & it's only getting worse.
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Yep, nothing other than a 100% UNITED movement will save our country. It is that damn simple. I don't want to grow up in a country that is controlled by a select few. I really don't and I'm willing to bet that most others don't either. So I guess we will just wait around until we have to have a full out revolt in our country before we make the change.
 
#50
#50
#VFL__ said:
Why is that absurd!?! Do you think the absurd amount of money flowing into politics is for another reason?

Why is it that our reps voted to give tax breaks to companies shipping jobs over seas?? That's a simple one. The information is out there if you look for it. Follow the money and you will see for yourself exactly what kind of control these people have that you and I do not have. I don't remember reading a part in the constitution that gives people who create "jobs" more power than those who fill those jobs.

And yes I have a huge tinfoil cowboy hat on right now.
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The absurd amount of money which flows into politics is disgusting. It flows into politics because we (collectively) have given scoundrels, harlots, liars, vipers, egomaniacs, and their ilk the power to drastically influence our lives (personally and professionally). So, if my industry is facing harmful legislation or regulation, i fight. My ammunition is money.
Whenever a handout or break is offered, i take it. Because if i dont, my competitors will (if they haven't already). And the political class is adept at pitting one group's fears against another. The ruling elites need to be stripped of 90% of their power. And since money is the language of power, i am for reducing all taxes no matter which private citizens benefit. Once their power is gone, people will stop protecting themselves with cronyism. I would much rather have billions in the hands of corrupt private individuals than in the hands of corrupt politicians.
 
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