Establishing Roles

#26
#26
I remember I was having the worst game of my career, playing against one of my high school teammates, nothing I did seemed to do was going, right couldn't drive, couldn't pass, wasn't going right, 2nd quarter, my game just fell a part my head was not in the game. My coaches, couldn't say anything, now I'm getting emotional, the talker is now quiet, the energy was there but

But since I had a track record being tough, my coaches left I in, there was a freshman behind me, I stunk it up, the player scored at will, and I'm a good defensive player, the game went to overtime to a team with a losing record and we had no losses in conferences, my team had my back, I'm crying in the huddles, I'm mad, I'm frustrated, but with 7 seconds on the clock, I get a rebound and putback, we won.

Now, my coach could have taken me out, but that game just made me tougher, we celebrated like we won a championship, cos my team, the coaches saw my struggles, and they didn't give up on me. See, you don't get that unless you played it...

So, I will not give up on this team or coach!
 
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#27
#27
Did you play? If u never played the game D1, sorry you are still just a fan.

And the Lady Vols are different, 100% graduation rate.

Can you tell me any other program that has that standard?

There's no such thing as JUST a fan. This is a message board FOR FANS.
 
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#28
#28
I can live with some losses if I think the coach is doing the best she can with the personnel she has on the team. To me that would mean keeping a three point player like Middleton and Dunbar on the floor the full forty minutes and try to work the zone for an open shot for them 8 to 10 times per game. If they only hit three or four a lot better than we are getting now. They could play from the two and three one or the other throughout the game. We could use Diamond either at the four or point guard to go with Reynolds. Nared is the three and she should stay within her abilities which is shots within 10 to 12 feet she cannot shoot the three effectively.
Unless Nunn gets to playing better I can see her minutes getting very small and doubt Harris sees anything but mop up action if we have a big enough lead.
Were very limited this year have to let Dunbar and Middleton take most of the threes and Diamond and Nared the mid-range shots and drives. I think Diamond could also do some posting up inside and be effective with scoring or getting fouled.
Like I've said before hoping we can get to twenty wins and keep our NCAA appearances alive need to use the best personnel we have to their strengths. Last game we didn't do that at all.
 
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#29
#29
Did you play? If u never played the game D1, sorry you are still just a fan.

And the Lady Vols are different, 100% graduation rate.

Can you tell me any other program that has that standard?

A long time ago in an early tournament far, far away, I was helping some family friends and their team with their AAU team one summer; I'm talking an old school coach who'd been coaching for 30+ years. Really good coach, for the record. Now, let me reveal a big secret here, I am not a former player of any stripe. Spoiler alert, I know. Anyway moving on. There's sometimes 12-16 games, all going on at once, all day long, sometimes in centers all at once, sometimes at individual gyms. Well, we're at a center this time, and our team's finished its games early, and so we start walking around to the other games. I go off to watch one too, just to see what the crowd's yelling about (BIGGER SPOILER ALERT: it turned out to be a really tall up-and-comer from Illinois named Candace something or other). Anyway, I keep walking and end up at another game, and watch it for a bit. After a while, the other coaches walk up, having done their rounds, and one says to me "so what do you make of them?" I told them "well, I'm not really a coach, I don't know." "Well, which one's their scorer?" "14, I think." "Who likes to get in and clean up the garbage?" "20, she's a fighter and she takes it personal when she's in, they get a lot of second chances from her." "Who's their best defender?" "Oh, that's got to be this one." "What's been their best lineup?" Etc., etc. Anyway, after a bit more of this, the same one gave me a little shove and said "and you said you weren't a coach." And before I could protest, the first one grinned and explained that I'd been around them most of the summer and had learned more than I thought, but more important, that it didn't take being a coach to see things on the court. You just had to be attentive and observant (which, that can be tough for fans much of the time, but it's just about being objective, and since I didn't care about the teams playing at that moment, I had spent my time watching them objectively).

POINT BEING: It doesn't take a coach to know something about the game. It definitely helps more, and it's not a free pass to be a "guru" or know everything, but a lot of sport is right there in front of you, as long as you know what to look for and you're realistic about what you see. Sometimes it's not as magical as it might appear. Though sometimes it is (see also: Pat Summitt getting the LVs to the FF in 2005 - that was magic right there).
 
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#30
#30
I don't get all the Jordan bashing on here. Like we weren't missing her in the tournament, if she wouldn't have gotten that concussion we would have advanced. You sit Jordan the offense STILL look the same way with Lex running point. All the players standing watching Jordan and Lex call a play, one person cut and that's it no screens no ball movement is being made that's on the coach not the point. If the don't move on offense then bring in someone who will.
 
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#31
#31
Nice post Voltopia.

But others are allowed to have different perspective and point of view, and one is not superior to the others, its just an opinion. None of us are in the looker-room and practice, so I get, we all pull from past experiences, and plus I like to know who I'm talking too, if they quote my posts.

Can a good coach the game that has never played? Of course, but see they never experienced the emotions, the adranaline, the nerves, the moment like a player. See, I was that player, if you never played the game u couldn't coach me, u had to be good. Pat, played, olympian, she coached, champion, for me that was everything.

Welp. If you know more than the coach, who are with these ladies every day, please apply, but fire her, fire her. Ain't nobody got time for that, after the fourth game of the season.

But its the some ole **** from the same ole fans, or coaches or former players over and over again, we get it, we lost, ole that play look familiar. I get it. I speak the same ole ****, I love the lady Vols and every team is a work in progress and its not always about x and o's.

But damn, we lost one game. Moving right along... enjoy the season.
 
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#32
#32
I don't get all the Jordan bashing on here. Like we weren't missing her in the tournament, if she wouldn't have gotten that concussion we would have advanced. You sit Jordan the offense STILL look the same way with Lex running point. All the players standing watching Jordan and Lex call a play, one person cut and that's it no screens no ball movement is being made that's on the coach not the point. If the don't move on offense then bring in someone who will.

No one is bashing Jordan we simply would like for her to look to score more, we need points ans she can provide that for us but most times prefers to pass the ball when she can easily get to the rim/score. Other PG's have looked to get their teammates involved but when they saw that their team needed points they look to provide that, Jordan doesn't
 
#33
#33
No one is bashing Jordan we simply would like for her to look to score more, we need points ans she can provide that for us but most times prefers to pass the ball when she can easily get to the rim/score. Other PG's have looked to get their teammates involved but when they saw that their team needed points they look to provide that, Jordan doesn't

Let me change that from We and say I
 
#35
#35
You sound like a fool, how many coaches who are coaching in the women's game that has played D1 basketball? Geno being one of them who didn't play in college and holds the record for most championships in the women's game. I have coached several players (on the AAU circuit) who have played Division 1 and Division 2 basketball.

It's cool to be a homer but a dumb one is the worst kind.

Agree with most that you posted and more than a million agrees with the stupidity of the poster about playing D1. I too have been around the game more years than most posters and coached high school for many years as well as every other kind of basketball functions. Pat has those orange colored glasses so far up HW wazoo to see clearly would be impossible. Best to just ignore because stupid stuff come from there about ever post!!!:peace2:
 
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#36
#36
I have been very critical of Holly and the way she has handled things as a coach.

As a person who has been around the game my entire life (my uncle played in college and overseas) and having played the game in high school as well as coached the game (both as Head Coach and Assistant coach on the AAU circuit) to working with my sisters on their skill set (one played in high school but an injury stopped her from playing in college) and the other who is currently a senior for a Division II program, I haven't coached at the level Holly has but I know a thing or two about the game, as many other posters do.

I don't want to be critical of her, but it's hard to when it seems like when one step is taken forward we seem to take a few steps back. One of the major concerns for me (outside of the losing to the teams we shouldn't lose to). I'm finding that some players don't seem to know their roles or what is required of them for the team to be successful. Even with 9 players (many of which are High School All American's) we can still make some noise if changes were made.

I am going to list some changes I would make and will wait for suggestions from others.

The changes are;

1.) Bench the Seniors
a.) Jordan Reynolds has shown us the past 3 (now in her final season) years that we have really seen the best of her. It is time to see what someone else can do with the minutes she gets. Maybe her coming off the bench her senior season might light a spark under her and give us a punch off the bench.

b.) Playing Nunn and Russell together is a disaster in a sense because both are used to occupying the block. At Winthrop Nunn was our Russell and her team had to get her the ball inside. Having her at the high post is doing her (and the team) disservice. She can provide quality minutes behind Russell so that we don't have to play Russell 35 plus minutes a game.

2.) Start MeMe and Middleton together
The two of them have chemistry with one another and although MeMe isn't a great shooter, she isn't afraid to shoot (or attack the zone). Middleton should be used off of screens to knock down 3's.

3.) Let Diamond play the Point
This year Diamond has really tried to be a "team" player (which I think the assessment of her not being one is overblown) and much of her frustration is probably from the feeling that she has to do too much. She can get off her shot when she wants but can also get her teammates involved. She has a very high Bball IQ and if allowed to play how she truly plays this team would be tough to be despite of the coaching.

4.) Nared has to be the aggressor
Too many times she is standing at the 3Pt line waiting to shoot instead of getting into the open spot in the Zone and attack. We need her too attack and stop trying to shoot 3's. Diamond is looking to Nared to get Jamie going really before she gets herself going as she knows how important each other is to the teams success.

5.) Russell has to dominate
Every game has to be a double double with at least 2 to 3Blks. She has been playing very good but we need her to be great. She is hesitant at times, I know she gets beat up but she has to be strong and make her moves quickly. A lot of times she sits and wait to make her move. She also needs to be more vocal. My coaches always told me the PG was the conductor and the Center was the enforcer. If the girls aren't cutting to the basket when she is triple team she needs to get on them. If they aren't getting to their spots defensively she needs to get on them. We have too many nice girls, our 5 player has to be the nastiest (we have always had that from out 5s) during game time and not the nicest.

6.) Find minutes for Harris and rest Dunbar due to her injury.

a.)Dunbar is hurt and we will need her (she's a zone buster) when we get into SEC and (hopefully) Tournament play. We have to rest her when we can and truly monitor her. We also can't wait until we down 10/15 points to throw her in and expect her to be savior.

b.) Harris should see at least 3 minutes a half; If for nothing else to get her foot wet/block a few shots and rebound. I understand you have to show it in practice but some players just aren't good practice players. Some players just perform better in front of the lights. Kiah Stokes was a liability for Geno offensively but he found ways to utilize her to change other teams game plans, we must do the same.

Moving forward the lineup should be;

Starters/Bench
PG-Diamond/Reynolds
SG-Middleton/Diamond
SF-Jackson/Dunbar
PF-Nared/Nared
C-Russell/Nunn/Harris

Diamond and Nared should be the two players play 30 plus minutes with Russell playing the most behind them. At least 2 of those 3 should be on the floor at all times.

A good read, indeed. So much common sense.
Here's hoping that one of Holly's minions will pass on your post to her. :eek:k:
 
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#37
#37
You sound like a fool, how many coaches who are coaching in the women's game that has played D1 basketball? Geno being one of them who didn't play in college and holds the record for most championships in the women's game. I have coached several players (on the AAU circuit) who have played Division 1 and Division 2 basketball.

It's cool to be a homer but a dumb one is the worst kind.

Post of the Day! :)
 
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#38
#38
So did you play? And sorry you are no Geno, Mike, and Wooden.

It worked for some, cos the question is pretty much in reference, cos you don't seem to understand the psychology of players or athletes.

Iz be dumb, but I did play the game, at a high level, won a championship on every level, I have and still coach girls and boys, and sports psychology, which my hater is a big part of coaching.

So yo point, did u play cos u seem to not understand its not always about x's and o's.


Do you talk like this too?
 
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#39
#39
I can live with some losses if I think the coach is doing the best she can with the personnel she has on the team. To me that would mean keeping a three point player like Middleton and Dunbar on the floor the full forty minutes and try to work the zone for an open shot for them 8 to 10 times per game. If they only hit three or four a lot better than we are getting now. They could play from the two and three one or the other throughout the game. We could use Diamond either at the four or point guard to go with Reynolds. Nared is the three and she should stay within her abilities which is shots within 10 to 12 feet she cannot shoot the three effectively.
Unless Nunn gets to playing better I can see her minutes getting very small and doubt Harris sees anything but mop up action if we have a big enough lead.
Were very limited this year have to let Dunbar and Middleton take most of the threes and Diamond and Nared the mid-range shots and drives. I think Diamond could also do some posting up inside and be effective with scoring or getting fouled.
Like I've said before hoping we can get to twenty wins and keep our NCAA appearances alive need to use the best personnel we have to their strengths. Last game we didn't do that at all.

Nunn had some good minutes. Not enough of them. But even the PSU announcers spoke of her early play
 
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#45
#45
solid post OP :good!:

what is Kortney injury ? she didn't play a whole lot the last game I don't think
 
#47
#47
thanks Jeff :hi:

that sounds painful for sure and yes,I had to look it up to see what it is lol
 
#48
#48
thanks Jeff :hi:

that sounds painful for sure and yes,I had to look it up to see what it is lol

I don't remember which thread it was posted in. I've actually had this injury. I couldn't stand on my foot much less walk. I don't know how you run. I struggled with it for two years. I still do the stretching exercises and wear the orthotic.
 
#49
#49
I'm tired of hearing cheap excuses from our team. How often does UConn play a game in which they are not motivated? Or don't know what they're doing? Or are confused on defense? Pretty much never. They come out every game and put the hammer down. We come out most games and dork around like some high school team. It is embarrassing--has been embarrassing for years. UT plays far too much ugly, bad basketball...and has for for YEARS, going back before PS retired and continuing through HW's tenure.

How many times since Warlick took over the program have we heard her cite a lack of effort or motivation by the team? A TON. Many, many times. Too many times. If players are unmotivated, then your first problem is the players who are not giving 100 percent. Those players should be benched--and stay on the bench until they are prepared to be motivated. Play walk-ons if you have to. This applies to everybody. That said, if you have a consistent problem with motivation, then there is a disconnect between the coach and the players. Either you've got player(s) with a bad attitude--or you have a coach that needs to be replaced. Lack of effort/motivation seems to be a consistent problem, and that means we have a serious problem with a specific player or two, or the coach, or both. Ultimately, the coach is responsible for motivating players--and HW doesn't seem to know how to do that.

All these players played together all last year! There is /no excuse/ for being confused on defense. So, defensively, we either can't defend--and there is some of that--or we're dumb, or lazy. I'd say all three apply. We've definitely had lazy defensive players in recent years. Massengale was lazy. Reynolds can be lazy on defense. DD can be lazy. Others. There is no excuse for it. Three-quarters effort = lazy. When you don't try to fight past picks, you're being lazy. You don't just let other teams put you in mismatches--and yet we do that quite often.

I agree with the original poster about Reynolds. She can and should be more aggressive on the court. She is capable of scoring more--and needs to. She's not a big scorer, of course, but she's capable of scoring more. And he could probably be a better leader, too. She has been underachieving for two years. Part of the problem with Reynolds and with everyone is that we're still terrible against a zone defense. Lack of movement, lack of confidence, lack of basketball IQ. We are not a good half-court offensive team and haven't been for, oh, 15 years. We are better playing up tempo--and should try to. The fact that we're not great defensively, and don't really have the depth to press other teams, makes it harder to play up-tempo, but we should try. If you have athletic players, you should always try to play up-tempo. When we are in slow tempo games, and teams are playing zone against us, we have problems.

I also agree with the OP about Nunn. She's probably playing out of position and simply isn't showing much right now. We should be starting either Dunbar or Jackson and not Nunn.

What the hell is Warlick talking about when she tells our players to "read the defense." That is a weird, unnecessary concept that probably results in confusion with our players. You read whether a team is playing man or zone, but that is pretty obvious and pretty basic. You make reads if you see mismatches--if you see that an opposing guard is now on Russell, then you try to take advantage and get the ball to Russell. You read defenders and whether they can guard you off the dribble or not. But that is all elementary basketball and should be instinctive--stuff you learn in 9th grade. So I find it a bit odd that Warlick is telling the team to "read the defense." These players have practiced together, what, scores of times. The should all have chemistry--and they should all have a fundamental understanding of the game. Too often, we don't. BB is a game in which, if you expect to win consistently, you must 1) play hard and 2) play smart--meaning play good, fundamental basketball. You need more than those two things--but those are the absolute starting points. We are deficient on both, so it's no wonder we lose games.
 
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#50
#50
I'm tired of hearing cheap excuses from our team. How often does UConn play a game in which they are not motivated? Or don't know what they're doing? Or are confused on defense? Pretty much never. They come out every game and put the hammer down. We come out most games and dork around like some high school team. It is embarrassing--has been embarrassing for years. UT plays far too much ugly, bad basketball...and has for for YEARS, going back before PS retired and continuing through HW's tenure.

How many times since Warlick took over the program have we heard her cite a lack of effort or motivation by the team? A TON. Many, many times. Too many times. If players are unmotivated, then your first problem is the players who are not giving 100 percent. Those players should be benched--and stay on the bench until they are prepared to be motivated. Play walk-ons if you have to. This applies to everybody. That said, if you have a consistent problem with motivation, then there is a disconnect between the coach and the players. Either you've got player(s) with a bad attitude--or you have a coach that needs to be replaced. Lack of effort/motivation seems to be a consistent problem, and that means we have a serious problem with a specific player or two, or the coach, or both. Ultimately, the coach is responsible for motivating players--and HW doesn't seem to know how to do that.

All these players played together all last year! There is /no excuse/ for being confused on defense. So, defensively, we either can't defend--and there is some of that--or we're dumb, or lazy. I'd say all three apply. We've definitely had lazy defensive players in recent years. Massengale was lazy. Reynolds can be lazy on defense. DD can be lazy. Others. There is no excuse for it. Three-quarters effort = lazy. When you don't try to fight past picks, you're being lazy. You don't just let other teams put you in mismatches--and yet we do that quite often.

I agree with the original poster about Reynolds. She can and should be more aggressive on the court. She is capable of scoring more--and needs to. She's not a big scorer, of course, but she's capable of scoring more. And he could probably be a better leader, too. She has been underachieving for two years. Part of the problem with Reynolds and with everyone is that we're still terrible against a zone defense. Lack of movement, lack of confidence, lack of basketball IQ. We are not a good half-court offensive team and haven't been for, oh, 15 years. We are better playing up tempo--and should try to. The fact that we're not great defensively, and don't really have the depth to press other teams, makes it harder to play up-tempo, but we should try. If you have athletic players, you should always try to play up-tempo. When we are in slow tempo games, and teams are playing zone against us, we have problems.

I also agree with the OP about Nunn. She's probably playing out of position and simply isn't showing much right now. We should be starting either Dunbar or Jackson and not Nunn.

What the hell is Warlick talking about when she tells our players to "read the defense." That is a weird, unnecessary concept that probably results in confusion with our players. You read whether a team is playing man or zone, but that is pretty obvious and pretty basic. You make reads if you see mismatches--if you see that an opposing guard is now on Russell, then you try to take advantage and get the ball to Russell. You read defenders and whether they can guard you off the dribble or not. But that is all elementary basketball and should be instinctive--stuff you learn in 9th grade. So I find it a bit odd that Warlick is telling the team to "read the defense." These players have practiced together, what, scores of times. The should all have chemistry--and they should all have a fundamental understanding of the game. Too often, we don't. BB is a game in which, if you expect to win consistently, you must 1) play hard and 2) play smart--meaning play good, fundamental basketball. You need more than those two things--but those are the absolute starting points. We are deficient on both, so it's no wonder we lose games.

Post of the Day -
A good read, indeed. Thanks armchair for your insightful common sense take on Tennessee Lady Vols basketball.
 
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