Dabo Swinney just...

#76
#76
BeecherVol said:
This has gotten posted frequently as of late, mostly in a way to preach patience for Jones.
What or who is the gauge for him Underachieving in his first 4 years?
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You talking about Dabo or Butch?

If Dabo, he underachieved because was bringing in top recruiting classes (Clemson always has) but was losing 2-3 games per year that he "shouldn't have." Only finished in the top 25 once during his first 3 years there. Clemsoning was a real thing. His 3rd year at Clemson they went 6-6 in the regular season and his seat was really hot.

They had a better season in 2011 but infamously gave up 70 in the Orange Bowl. A light appeared to come on for him after that, he started hiring better, more qualified assistants, and they've been a power ever since. They have only lost an Alabama-like 9 games since the Orange Bowl loss.
 
#77
#77
Watching JFreak embarrass himself trying to diminish what Clemson accomplished in the playoffs was the highlight of my morning. Then his continuing defense of Butch just placed the cherry on top.

**I am beginning to think he/she may in fact be none other than Mrs. Jones.
 
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#78
#78
05_never_again said:
You talking about Dabo or Butch?

If Dabo, he underachieved because was bringing in top recruiting classes (Clemson always has) but was losing 2-3 games per year that he "shouldn't have." Only finished in the top 25 once during his first 3 years there. Clemsoning was a real thing. His 3rd year at Clemson they went 6-6 in the regular season and his seat was really hot.

They had a better season in 2011 but infamously gave up 70 in the Orange Bowl. A light appeared to come on for him after that, he started hiring better, more qualified assistants, and they've been a power ever since. They have only lost an Alabama-like 9 games since the Orange Bowl loss.
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1. Clemson's hasn't always brought in "top recruiting classes", even under Dabo.
He has 3 top 10 classes during his time there. His best 2 classes are FR (14-1) and SO (28-2) on his current team. His only other top 10 class was in 2011 #8 (per Rivals). Dabo's other classes at Clemson ranked 13, 14, 14, 20, 39.
By comparison UT has a better average class thru the Kiffin, Dooley, Jones exchange than Dabo has recruited during his 9 years at Clemson. And if you go back a few years previous to Dabo the numbers on average are pretty close to the same.

2. To the point of Dabo being an underachiever. Clemson hadn't won the ACC since 1991 and hadn't had a 10 win season since 1990. He covered both of those in his 3rd season. And since then hasn't had less than 10 wins. He has had a similar run to Danny Ford in the 80's which is considered one of if not Clemson's best in their history.
 
#79
#79
TennVOLS93 said:
Watching JFreak embarrass himself trying to diminish what Clemson accomplished in the playoffs was the highlight of my morning. Then his continuing defense of Butch just placed the cherry on top.

**I am beginning to think he/she may in fact be none other than Mrs. Jones.
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Glad I could make your morning. I'm not trying to diminish Clemson's accomplishments at all. And once again I think Dabo is a fantastic coach. However, if you'll look again at the beginning of the thread, people were dismissing that OSU shouldn't have been in the playoffs by pointing out who their HC is. That is a complete and total fallacy. They didn't win their conference.. and that can't be covered up by Urban being their coach. But as we've learned the negas aren't very good with nuances.

And again, compare Butch's first 4 years to Dabo's first 4. I don't need to defend Butch, the numbers do that for me.
 
#80
#80
JFreak said:
Glad I could make your morning. I'm not trying to diminish Clemson's accomplishments at all. And once again I think Dabo is a fantastic coach. However, if you'll look again at the beginning of the thread, people were dismissing that OSU shouldn't have been in the playoffs by pointing out who their HC is. That is a complete and total fallacy. They didn't win their conference.. and that can't be covered up by Urban being their coach. But as we've learned the negas aren't very good with nuances.

And again, compare Butch's first 4 years to Dabo's first 4. I don't need to defend Butch, the numbers do that for me.
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The fallacy lies with a Penn St. team with 2 Ls one of which by 39 points getting in, as opposed to a OSU team that lost 1 game by a fg. Maybe you could make a better case with another team. That one doesn't work.


Dabo's first 4 seasons -
36-16 (67%)

3 division titles
1 conference title

Jones first 4 seasons -
30-21 (59%)

0 division titles
0 conferences titles
Still #1 in the hearts of the masses
 
#81
#81
JFreak said:
Glad I could make your morning. I'm not trying to diminish Clemson's accomplishments at all. And once again I think Dabo is a fantastic coach. However, if you'll look again at the beginning of the thread, people were dismissing that OSU shouldn't have been in the playoffs by pointing out who their HC is. That is a complete and total fallacy. They didn't win their conference.. and that can't be covered up by Urban being their coach. But as we've learned the negas aren't very good with nuances.

And again, compare Butch's first 4 years to Dabo's first 4. I don't need to defend Butch, the numbers do that for me.
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The numbers are against you see above. People want butch to be successful because he's such a likable guy. In my opinion, that is my theory on why people are clinging to anything that is a glimmer of hope.
 
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#82
#82
BeecherVol said:
The fallacy lies with a Penn St. team with 2 Ls one of which by 39 points getting in, as opposed to a OSU team that lost 1 game by a fg. Maybe you could make a better case with another team. That one doesn't work.


Dabo's first 4 seasons -
36-16 (67%)

3 division titles
1 conference title

Jones first 4 seasons -
30-21 (59%)

0 division titles
0 conferences titles
Still #1 in the hearts of the masses
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They were the conference champs. It's either them or no one from B10. That simple. And I believe your numbers don't account for the season Dabo took over from Bowden. You can make that point, but qualify it when you make a statement.
 
#83
#83
TennVOLS93 said:
The numbers are against you see above. People want butch to be successful because he's such a likable guy. In my opinion, that is my theory on why people are clinging to anything that is a glimmer of hope.
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The numbers above are wrong, here are the right ones:
Overall record Dabo...... 29-19 Bowl record 1-3
Butch....... 30-21........ Bowl record 3-0
We were 2-14 in our last 16 SEC games before Butch arrived. It would serve everyone well to keep that in mind.
 
#84
#84
JFreak said:
They were the conference champs. It's either them or no one from B10. That simple. And I believe your numbers don't account for the season Dabo took over from Bowden. You can make that point, but qualify it when you make a statement.
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No its not that simple and thus the reason why it didn't work that way.

Yeah. It was left out because it wasn't "a season".

For clarification I went with Dabo's first 4 full seasons at Clemson (which happened to be his first 4 seasons as a head coach) compared to Jones first 4 seasons at UT.

If you want that amended to included Dabo's half season as well that puts him at 40-21 (66%)
 
#85
#85
JFreak said:
The numbers above are wrong, here are the right ones:
Overall record Dabo...... 29-19 Bowl record 1-3
Butch....... 30-21........ Bowl record 3-0
We were 2-14 in our last 16 SEC games before Butch arrived. It would serve everyone well to keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

See this is the issue. You give Butch a pass because his predecessor was a moronic ass clown that had no business being on the sideline of a P5. Stop basing your expectations for our program based on the results of Derek Dooley. I often hear..."well look where we were with Dooley compared to now." No. I refuse to lower my overall expectations of the Tennessee program because ass hat Hamilton made a dumb hire. Or 2 dumb hires. Also, the "he walked into a dumpster fire" excuse is slowly beginning to fade. He is going into year 5. Year 3 showed that he had developed the roster enough to where good coaching gets you a 10 win season. The roster this year was good enough to get to another 10 win season, win the eastern division, and play in the sugar bowl (including injuries). He blew both years. If he accomplishes the above, no one is blasting him. The divided fan base is his results. I personally became done with him when he embarrassed himself on TV with the "F 'em all" comment. He can say what he wants to cover it up, but anyone with a brain knows exactly what he said and intended. He said that to the people that were paying an asinine amount of money to watch this team compete and has backed/defended his ass since day 1. Back to the topic....Butch is not Dabo. He will more than likely never be Dabo because he can't get out of his own way. In the meantime, I will set back and watch Dabo cherry pick knox area recruits and compete for national titles while our own fan base screams, "BUT THE INJURIES"!!!!
 
#86
#86
TennVOLS93 said:
See this is the issue. You give Butch a pass because his predecessor was a moronic ass clown that had no business being on the sideline of a P5. Stop basing your expectations for our program based on the results of Derek Dooley. I often hear..."well look where we were with Dooley compared to now." No. I refuse to lower my overall expectations of the Tennessee program because ass hat Hamilton made a dumb hire. Or 2 dumb hires. Also, the "he walked into a dumpster fire" excuse is slowly beginning to fade. He is going into year 5. Year 3 showed that he had developed the roster enough to where good coaching gets you a 10 win season. The roster this year was good enough to get to another 10 win season, win the eastern division, and play in the sugar bowl (including injuries). He blew both years. If he accomplishes the above, no one is blasting him. The divided fan base is his results. I personally became done with him when he embarrassed himself on TV with the "F 'em all" comment. He can say what he wants to cover it up, but anyone with a brain knows exactly what he said and intended. He said that to the people that were paying an asinine amount of money to watch this team compete and has backed/defended his ass since day 1. Back to the topic....Butch is not Dabo. He will more than likely never be Dabo because he can't get out of his own way. In the meantime, I will set back and watch Dabo cherry pick knox area recruits and compete for national titles while our own fan base screams, "BUT THE INJURIES"!!!!
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No one is giving Butch a full pass. But you simply cannot ignore 2-14 in 16 SEC games before his arrival. It's part of the holistic view when analyzing the coach. Also, you're putting far too much weight in the decision of an 18 yr old kid (Tee Higgins).
 
#87
#87
JFreak said:
No one is giving Butch a full pass. But you simply cannot ignore 2-14 in 16 SEC games before his arrival. It's part of the holistic view when analyzing the coach. Also, you're putting far too much weight in the decision of an 18 yr old kid (Tee Higgins).
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Going into year 5. No one cares what Dooley's SEC record was. Its irrelevant. But if you want to base your expectation of program based on his results, then you should be happy.
 
#88
#88
JFreak said:
The numbers above are wrong, here are the right ones:
Overall record Dabo...... 29-19 Bowl record 1-3
Butch....... 30-21........ Bowl record 3-0
We were 2-14 in our last 16 SEC games before Butch arrived. It would serve everyone well to keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

No they are not wrong. Those numbers for Dabo are his first 4 seasons.

There are plenty here that want to turn a blind eye to Jones first 2 seasons because of Dooley but here we are expected to use a half season where a HFC was replaced by a WR coach midstream.
 
#90
#90
TennVOLS93 said:
Going into year 5. No one cares what Dooley's SEC record was. Its irrelevant. But if you want to base your expectation of program based on his results, then you should be happy.
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Oh, don't think for second that doesn't get brought up next year. Ive heard some on this site it might take as long as 10 years to rid UT of Dooley.

Jones needed to follow Dooley. He's a perfect situation for you when you go 4-4 in the conference in your 4th year.
 
#91
#91
JFreak said:
They were the conference champs. It's either them or no one from B10. That simple. And I believe your numbers don't account for the season Dabo took over from Bowden. You can make that point, but qualify it when you make a statement.
Click to expand...

Strange, the playoff committee didn't get your input, since OSU was in fact a playoff team.
 
#94
#94
TennVOLS93 said:
Going into year 5. No one cares what Dooley's SEC record was. Its irrelevant. But if you want to base your expectation of program based on his results, then you should be happy.
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Huh? As I said in the post you quoted, I'm not basing my expectations at all on Dooley's SEC record. However, it does play into the holistic view of what the program has done.
 
#100
#100
ptclaus98 said:
Butch is no Dabo, but he would do well to learn from Dabo and hand over some control to spend more of his energy being the face of the program. Ultimately that will be the only thing to save his career.
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Alas, you forget Fulmer's demise...
 
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