Coaching buyout breakdowns

#26
#26
***RoadVol*** said:
If it's the new norm? If it's the only option? Sooner or later these excess cost will hurt the sport. I think it already has to some degree. Or a salary cap for d1 coaches.
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Never happen. Think Bama,Texas or Ohio State agree to give up a competitive advantage?
 
#27
#27
TNnative said:
But what can we do about it? How is that relevant info useful? For getting your gut in a knot? Or are you having steak with some boosters tonight?

Fans discussing buyouts is like taking a pocket knife to a sword fight. I find it telling what parts of my post you avoided. But I'd rather hear it from you than the knuckleheads I have on ignore. At least you have a point most of the time.
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Kinda like fans speculating on who's starting at safety. "What are we going to do about it?" :) You're generally reasonable but seem to have gotten your gut in a knot over others getting their gut in a knot. What did I find useful? The buyout numbers...I didn't know them.
 
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#28
#28
IknoxvolsI said:
Money spent over the past decade for coaching, some say mistakes (on both ends), has been astronomical. Here is a brief synopsis with percentages going back to '92 and originating with Majors buyout to the obligated buyout of Jones.

First, starting with Dooley. That fiasco costed 7.5 million but only 5 million went to him. The rest to assistants. This is less than the 6 million Fulmer was paid. The biggest discrepancy is that Dooley was only here for three years and contributed almost nothing whereas Fulmer spent 16 years and won trophies and games.

http://archive.knoxnews.com/sports/...imated-75-million-ep-358772569-356094291.html

Next is the Fulmer buyout.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=3679810

As we all know this was a 6 million dollar buyout. This was the reward for 16 years, two SEC titles, four SEC games and one NC. Now, this is on top of the salary he was already paid to deliver. The note on this is that it is a 100% increase from the previous coaches (Majors) buyout. Remember, this is inflation over a 16 year period, however. Cost of just doing business in major college football.

Next up is Majors' buyout. It was common knowledge at the time that his buyout was $600,000. At the time, that was considered a large amount of money, but far less than the millions dooled out (pun intended) to Fulmer and later coaches. As the article below states, Johnny wasn't legally owed that much but that amount was negotiated. It also states that the total amount was just over $500,000 not the $600,000 that was supposedly common knowledge but I rounded it up any way.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/s...ball-majors-may-be-out-but-he-s-not-down.html

Next is the $10,000,000 buyout of Butch. The following article states that the actual buyout is more.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/92712348/

Actually, $10,025,000 more than the rounded up version of Majors buyout, which was 25 years ago this season. Still, that is alot of money! It comes to a staggaring 56% increase over Fulmers buyout of less than a decade ago. But, that is not to say that Butch is going to be bought out this year. Just to state how times have changed.

Now, if by chance there is no contract changes and a coaching change occurs, we will have paid somewhere just under $22,225,000 in just coaching buyouts over the past 25 years. This also means that Butch is worth $14 million (4 million for coaching salary and 10 million if he is bought out). It's late and my math may be skewed but that's close. These figures do not include the salaries of head coaches or assistants. Just the buyouts.

The debate proposed to you is, has there been a return of satisfaction on that amount? Obviously that is less than 1 million a year but at the same time, that is to be added on top of the coaching salary. Do you, my fellow fans and VN posters think we are in line with other top notch programs when it comes to spending? Should we have spent more or less? I am curious as to what you all think. As for me, that is alot of money!

I'll hang up and listen.
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Thanks Mike Hamilton, you incompetent boob!
 
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#29
#29
TNnative said:
Read all his late night posts he has started just in the past week. And it is a silly thread because where it always leads; a whole lotta whiners calling for money they will never make in 20 years to be spent freely in a day. I call that silly. What would you call it?
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Info posted could be equally utilized by those arguing against wasting it by firing Butch. :dunno:
 
#30
#30
TNnative said:
Read all his late night posts he has started just in the past week. And it is a silly thread because where it always leads; a whole lotta whiners calling for money they will never make in 20 years to be spent freely in a day. I call that silly. What would you call it?
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And yet you click on each one and dump posts in them. Hmm.
 
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#32
#32
IknoxvolsI said:
Money spent over the past decade for coaching, some say mistakes (on both ends), has been astronomical. Here is a brief synopsis with percentages going back to '92 and originating with Majors buyout to the obligated buyout of Jones.

First, starting with Dooley. That fiasco costed 7.5 million but only 5 million went to him. The rest to assistants. This is less than the 6 million Fulmer was paid. The biggest discrepancy is that Dooley was only here for three years and contributed almost nothing whereas Fulmer spent 16 years and won trophies and games.

http://archive.knoxnews.com/sports/...imated-75-million-ep-358772569-356094291.html

Next is the Fulmer buyout.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=3679810

As we all know this was a 6 million dollar buyout. This was the reward for 16 years, two SEC titles, four SEC games and one NC. Now, this is on top of the salary he was already paid to deliver. The note on this is that it is a 100% increase from the previous coaches (Majors) buyout. Remember, this is inflation over a 16 year period, however. Cost of just doing business in major college football.

Next up is Majors' buyout. It was common knowledge at the time that his buyout was $600,000. At the time, that was considered a large amount of money, but far less than the millions dooled out (pun intended) to Fulmer and later coaches. As the article below states, Johnny wasn't legally owed that much but that amount was negotiated. It also states that the total amount was just over $500,000 not the $600,000 that was supposedly common knowledge but I rounded it up any way.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/s...ball-majors-may-be-out-but-he-s-not-down.html

Next is the $10,000,000 buyout of Butch. The following article states that the actual buyout is more.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/92712348/

Actually, $10,025,000 more than the rounded up version of Majors buyout, which was 25 years ago this season. Still, that is alot of money! It comes to a staggaring 56% increase over Fulmers buyout of less than a decade ago. But, that is not to say that Butch is going to be bought out this year. Just to state how times have changed.

Now, if by chance there is no contract changes and a coaching change occurs, we will have paid somewhere just under $22,225,000 in just coaching buyouts over the past 25 years. This also means that Butch is worth $14 million (4 million for coaching salary and 10 million if he is bought out). It's late and my math may be skewed but that's close. These figures do not include the salaries of head coaches or assistants. Just the buyouts.

The debate proposed to you is, has there been a return of satisfaction on that amount? Obviously that is less than 1 million a year but at the same time, that is to be added on top of the coaching salary. Do you, my fellow fans and VN posters think we are in line with other top notch programs when it comes to spending? Should we have spent more or less? I am curious as to what you all think. As for me, that is alot of money!

From UT administrative stand point the ROI has been successful under Jones the last few season.

I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...

From UT stand point the ROI has been successful under Jones the last few season.
 
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#33
#33
TNnative said:
Maybe this is just my opinion, but I think you really need to see a doctor about your insomnia. Your late night threads are getting sillier by the day. If I was donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the university, I might get OCD about how the money is being spent. Since I don't, I let those that do worry about it.

But why sit up late night fretting about what other people who don't donate the big bucks think about it? If you were donating the big bucks, you would discuss it over steak at the Char House with other people who donate the big bucks. Not online with a whole lot of knuckleheads of which a very small percentage might donate just enough to buy season tickets.

So, what is the point of making this thread? Your insomnia is just making you silly. Get help.
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Nah, Chop house.
 
#35
#35
The massive amount of money going into major college football all around is staggering.

Two years ago ESPN had a segment on Saban and Ala. They had a number cruncher to do the figures. The increase in revenues that Bama has seen since hiring him say that his actual value is some where around $25 million. Yet he only makes something like $7.5.

Think about that for a minute. This was based solely on what the increase in revenue for them is since he started coaching them. In other words, he's making less than 25%, not of what he is worth but what he has increased them.
 
#36
#36
butchna said:
Kinda like fans speculating on who's starting at safety. "What are we going to do about it?" :) You're generally reasonable but seem to have gotten your gut in a knot over others getting their gut in a knot. What did I find useful? The buyout numbers...I didn't know them.
Click to expand...

Ok, I thought everyone had seen them. Not like they are a secret. But no, I USED to get my gut in a knot over wanting coaches fired. In the end, it just makes people miserable. If you hear or read someone making fun of that, most will continue to worry anyway, but maybe one or two will see how useless it is. Kinda like a preacher with a PA system in his car reading the Bible on a street corner. It might not seem like he is saving many souls, but he might help a few.
 
#38
#38
IknoxvolsI said:
Money spent over the past decade for coaching, some say mistakes (on both ends), has been astronomical. Here is a brief synopsis with percentages going back to '92 and originating with Majors buyout to the obligated buyout of Jones.

First, starting with Dooley. That fiasco costed 7.5 million but only 5 million went to him. The rest to assistants. This is less than the 6 million Fulmer was paid. The biggest discrepancy is that Dooley was only here for three years and contributed almost nothing whereas Fulmer spent 16 years and won trophies and games.

http://archive.knoxnews.com/sports/...imated-75-million-ep-358772569-356094291.html

Next is the Fulmer buyout.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=3679810

As we all know this was a 6 million dollar buyout. This was the reward for 16 years, two SEC titles, four SEC games and one NC. Now, this is on top of the salary he was already paid to deliver. The note on this is that it is a 100% increase from the previous coaches (Majors) buyout. Remember, this is inflation over a 16 year period, however. Cost of just doing business in major college football.

Next up is Majors' buyout. It was common knowledge at the time that his buyout was $600,000. At the time, that was considered a large amount of money, but far less than the millions dooled out (pun intended) to Fulmer and later coaches. As the article below states, Johnny wasn't legally owed that much but that amount was negotiated. It also states that the total amount was just over $500,000 not the $600,000 that was supposedly common knowledge but I rounded it up any way.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/15/s...ball-majors-may-be-out-but-he-s-not-down.html

Next is the $10,000,000 buyout of Butch. The following article states that the actual buyout is more.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/92712348/

Actually, $10,025,000 more than the rounded up version of Majors buyout, which was 25 years ago this season. Still, that is alot of money! It comes to a staggaring 56% increase over Fulmers buyout of less than a decade ago. But, that is not to say that Butch is going to be bought out this year. Just to state how times have changed.

Now, if by chance there is no contract changes and a coaching change occurs, we will have paid somewhere just under $22,225,000 in just coaching buyouts over the past 25 years. This also means that Butch is worth $14 million (4 million for coaching salary and 10 million if he is bought out). It's late and my math may be skewed but that's close. These figures do not include the salaries of head coaches or assistants. Just the buyouts.

The debate proposed to you is, has there been a return of satisfaction on that amount? Obviously that is less than 1 million a year but at the same time, that is to be added on top of the coaching salary. Do you, my fellow fans and VN posters think we are in line with other top notch programs when it comes to spending? Should we have spent more or less? I am curious as to what you all think. As for me, that is alot of money!

I'll hang up and listen.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you're calculating your percentages, but they are way off. You said that Fulmer's $6,000,000 buyout was a 100% increase over Major's buyout of $600,000, but a 100% increase of $600,000 = $1,200,000. Your other percentage(s) were way off the mark as well. Just FYI.
 
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#39
#39
butchna said:
Good luck getting a coach with testicles to sign that.
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Yeah huge gamble if completely incentive. You have base salary then based off criteria you could be lowest paid in conference for sure and maybe power 5 schools in general. Then if major milestones are met could be highest paid in a given year. I don't see coaches nor their agents taking that risk. I'd like to see it but there would still have to be other schools willing to pay big bucks regardless of performance and huge amount to go away if you fail.
 
#41
#41
IknoxvolsI said:
The massive amount of money going into major college football all around is staggering.

Two years ago ESPN had a segment on Saban and Ala. They had a number cruncher to do the figures. The increase in revenues that Bama has seen since hiring him say that his actual value is some where around $25 million. Yet he only makes something like $7.5.

Think about that for a minute. This was based solely on what the increase in revenue for them is since he started coaching them. In other words, he's making less than 25%, not of what he is worth but what he has increased them.
Click to expand...

Yep. That's what drives business. That's also what determines "worth" in business. It's the same reason that the companies that everyone working here continues to write them checks. If they believe the employee is not "worth" it, the you gooone.
 
#42
#42
TNnative said:
Ok, I thought everyone had seen them. Not like they are a secret. But no, I USED to get my gut in a knot over wanting coaches fired. In the end, it just makes people miserable. If you hear or read someone making fun of that, most will continue to worry anyway, but maybe one or two will see how useless it is. Kinda like a preacher with a PA system in his car reading the Bible on a street corner. It might not seem like he is saving many souls, but he might help a few.
Click to expand...

YOU wanting coaches fired? Or others?
 
#43
#43
DeepSpringsVol said:
Yeah huge gamble if completely incentive. You have base salary then based off criteria you could be lowest paid in conference for sure and maybe power 5 schools in general. Then if major milestones are met could be highest paid in a given year. I don't see coaches nor their agents taking that risk. I'd like to see it but there would still have to be other schools willing to pay big bucks regardless of performance and huge amount to go away if you fail.
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Remember when Ricky Williams agent negotiated that for him? Didn't become the norm...after the laughter. Became a cautionary tale on allowing Master P to represent you. :lol:
 
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#45
#45
I have been looking but cannot find this any where. It seems most have forgotten that Fulmer actually donated money to the University before he was fired. I'm not sure if that should be added back into his buyout or not. Just trying to be fair.

I do remember Fulmer donated, I think, $1,000,000 to the University. Now, GOOGLE is my friend but I can't seem to locate anything that was published. Anyone happen to know where I can find it?

Edit: Found it-

http://tntoday.utk.edu/2007/08/28/fulmers-donate-1-million-to-ut/
 
#46
#46
Fatman Photos said:
Butch not going anywhere for at least two more seasons unless there is a total meltdown.
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and look for wins to surprise to the upside this year. TN's offensive line will dominate at least 8 of their games, JK will go for 1,000+yds and QD will win 9 or more games including the bowl game.

GO VOLS!!!
 
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#47
#47
IknoxvolsI said:
I have been looking but cannot find this any where. It seems most have forgotten that Fulmer actually donated money to the University before he was fired. I'm not sure if that should be added back into his buyout or not. Just trying to be fair.

I do remember Fulmer donated, I think, $1,000,000 to the University. Now, GOOGLE is my friend but I can't seem to locate anything that was published. Anyone happen to know where I can find it?

Edit: Found it-

http://tntoday.utk.edu/2007/08/28/fulmers-donate-1-million-to-ut/
Click to expand...

Lol wot? You think the university should (even possibly) add money that Fulmer donated to his buyout? A donation is a donation. It has nothing to do with his contract, and it wouldn't be "fair" to add money that he gave to the university to his buyout. Especially since the guy is a multimillionaire. It's not as if he's hurting for money.
 
#48
#48
The buyout seems to make sense when you consider the circumstances at the time the contract was signed. UT was at the low point and I could see a coach saying "I'm not going to take over your Dumpster fire without some assurances that I'll be around long enough to put it out." It's what the market bore at the time. I know we love to trot out the notion that UT is one of the great jobs in college football, and it was and will be again, but the last three coaching searches have not exactly had elite coaches banging down the door. So the university needed to get creative and pay a little more.
 
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#49
#49
Dooley had the worst contract for us. Kiffen was just a matter of another coaching search...that obviously went bad.

What you probably aren't including are the assistant coach salaries for CBJ which if all were released would be another $10 millionish.
 
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