Coach.......stop the Insanity

[Amb3096]

Did Pat have over 20 five stars to work with her first 6 years? You really can’t compare the two because Holly has had more advantages and talent to work with in her first 6 years. She threw a donut in 2015, which was simply ridiculous. She usually has a good defense plan but a suspect offense plan. She does not manage her timeouts or really the development of her players. Most of the time she is out coached. What do we do keep on throwing more 5 stars at the problem, increase Holly’s salary and cross our fingers that things automatically workout? If she has not shown any signs of being a top ten coach in 6 years, it is suspect that Holly will reach that plateau in the next 6 years. It reaches a point when you have to realize that what you have is not working with the talent you have.

According to Franklin Pierce, being one of the most highly decorated HS players doesn't mean you're any more promising a college player than a walk-on 😂😂😂

 

[Amb3096]

Hmmm, and just WHO is expecting different results next season?

Me. I predict that next season will be the worst of Holly's tenure. A talented but young team that will be begging for guidance...of which there will be none of.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Me. I predict that next season will be the worst of Holly's tenure. A talented but young team that will be begging for guidance...of which there will be none of.

In the last year of Holly's extension too. I would never root for the Lady Vols to lose under any circumstance, but if the bottom were to fall out next season it might not be the worst thing in the big picture...

 

[Amb3096]

In the last year of Holly's extension too. I would never root for the Lady Vols to lose under any circumstance, but if the bottom were to fall out next season it might not be the worst thing in the big picture...

I've resigned myself to the fact that she will be the coach for now. All I hope is that she's not given an extension after this season. Whether I root for them.or not, I do believe that the natural order should sort out the Holly Warlick problem come the end of next season.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

"Here we go again" Enemy of the truth! I always ask this question, "if one doesn't know how to tell the truth the way it is, how do u raise ur own kids? Do u lie to them to make them happy when they're doing horrible?

Let’s keep this on a basketball level and not a personal parenting level... especially when people have defended your lack of grammar at times and people personally attacking you and your posts because of the way you expressed yourself in your posts. Whether you are asking that question hypothetically or not. Still not good!

This isn’t an attack just not trying to get into an area where this doesn’t need to go.

 

[savannahfan]

The AD can choose not to extend her contract and she will have one more season and it will be over. When Fulmer extends her contract at the end of the season guess we can all shut up and move on about Holly. I agree she should not coach anymore but since none of us are in a position of power to do anything about it guess we'll live with the AD's decision.

Yes we are and are. How many Lady Vols shirts and things have you seen young women wearing? The youngers and supporters are starting to not BUY. How many are coming to the games now? How much are you hearing and seeing about the Lady's on the TV and Radio? Yes, we the fans and potential players are not trying to apply pressure but sure are. The product on the court is not up to Pat's standard nor any other top program for most of the team and coaching reason you lay out. They are just hard to watch. Tries ones patience watching so much inconstancy.

 

[teacherdean]

According to Franklin Pierce, being one of the most highly decorated HS players doesn't mean you're any more promising a college player than a walk-on 😂😂😂

What Pierce said is a no brained, however, it is highly doubtful that Holly has had 20 plus 5 stars or more that were duds. So what Pierce is saying, does not take into account bad coaching which can affect the production, success and development of exceptional players. Remember Pierce said “doesn’t mean” which would lead a prudent person to believe that there are players that are as good as advertised. Also not every coach is a good coach just because they have a bunch of exceptional players. Like all players, exceptional players need development and good coaching.

 

[volfanIND]

In my post I only compared numbers - facts. I thought it was common knowledge of all the trailblazing that coach Summitt did so there is no need (and not enough space) to go through those accomplishments. I was also replying to the OP who said coach Warlick is taking the program to an all time low - completely misguided

Is the program the same in the 80s/90s/early 2000s. Nope. Again, looking at numbers/facts, lady vols haven't been to a final four in 10 years. THIS is the only fact that Tennessee is failing on. While it's great to have expectations for your team, it's also makes you look absolutely ridiculous and naive to think that Tennessee would/could replace Coach Summitt with another ... Again, sticking with FACTS - let's look back since 2000 and see what coach's have been going to final fours: Geno - 15 , Summitt - 7 , Vanderveer- 7 , McGraw - 6 , Chapman - 5 , Freese - 3 , Goestenkors - 3 , Mulkey - 3 , Hatchell - 2 , Cole - 3 , Walz - 2 , Stringer - 2 , Staley - 2 , Gottlieb - 1 , Peck - 1 , Neighbors - 1 , Blair - 1 , Rueck - 1 , Schaefer - 1 , Hillsman - 1, Conradt - 1 , Borton - 1 , Merchant - 1 , Portland -1 , Burnett - 1

So who should we grab? Not enough money in the world would bring the top 12 coach's to Tennessee because no head coach that has had some success in their program wants to replace a Summitt or a Geno. It's career suicide. Every second of your life is going to be compared to the greatest ... sounds great sign me up!

Holly isn't a perfect coach and at times, there is fault in her just as there is fault with the players. We were more than blessed to have the opportunity to have the success that we did. UCONN at this moment is more than blessed to have the success they are having. Geno will stop coaching and UCONN will not be able to replace him with anything close to what he has accomplished. Success in sports is a double edged sword - eventually you get hit by the other end, will you survive it? So far, we are surviving, while not pretty, we are surviving. How do we know - back to back top 5 recruiting class, currenlty 24-7 and heading into the ncaa tournament probably as a 3 seed. Tennessee Lady Vol basketball is still relevant with coach Warlick (now matter how much you imbecile pitch fork carrying 'fans' say we are not)

An article from 2012 - still relevant:
Is there even a proper comparison for Warlick? By my reckoning, there are four coaches who followed larger-than-life figures in the men’s game. Gene Bartow replaced John Wooden at UCLA. Joe B. Hall followed Adolph Rupp at Kentucky. Bill Guthridge stepped into Dean Smith’s job. Mike Davis was the man who coached Indiana after Bob Knight. None of them came close to matching their predecessors, though it should be noted that all of them won at least one conference title and reached a Final Four. Hall even won a title. But all of them fell short of the high standards set by their predecessors. How could they not?

 

[Coach Jumper]

In my post I only compared numbers - facts. I thought it was common knowledge of all the trailblazing that coach Summitt did so there is no need (and not enough space) to go through those accomplishments. I was also replying to the OP who said coach Warlick is taking the program to an all time low - completely misguided

Is the program the same in the 80s/90s/early 2000s. Nope. Again, looking at numbers/facts, lady vols haven't been to a final four in 10 years. THIS is the only fact that Tennessee is failing on. While it's great to have expectations for your team, it's also makes you look absolutely ridiculous and naive to think that Tennessee would/could replace Coach Summitt with another ... Again, sticking with FACTS - let's look back since 2000 and see what coach's have been going to final fours: Geno - 15 , Summitt - 7 , Vanderveer- 7 , McGraw - 6 , Chapman - 5 , Freese - 3 , Goestenkors - 3 , Mulkey - 3 , Hatchell - 2 , Cole - 3 , Walz - 2 , Stringer - 2 , Staley - 2 , Gottlieb - 1 , Peck - 1 , Neighbors - 1 , Blair - 1 , Rueck - 1 , Schaefer - 1 , Hillsman - 1, Conradt - 1 , Borton - 1 , Merchant - 1 , Portland -1 , Burnett - 1

So who should we grab? Not enough money in the world would bring the top 12 coach's to Tennessee because no head coach that has had some success in their program wants to replace a Summitt or a Geno. It's career suicide. Every second of your life is going to be compared to the greatest ... sounds great sign me up!

Holly isn't a perfect coach and at times, there is fault in her just as there is fault with the players. We were more than blessed to have the opportunity to have the success that we did. UCONN at this moment is more than blessed to have the success they are having. Geno will stop coaching and UCONN will not be able to replace him with anything close to what he has accomplished. Success in sports is a double edged sword - eventually you get hit by the other end, will you survive it? So far, we are surviving, while not pretty, we are surviving. How do we know - back to back top 5 recruiting class, currenlty 24-7 and heading into the ncaa tournament probably as a 3 seed. Tennessee Lady Vol basketball is still relevant with coach Warlick (now matter how much you imbecile pitch fork carrying 'fans' say we are not)

An article from 2012 - still relevant:
Is there even a proper comparison for Warlick? By my reckoning, there are four coaches who followed larger-than-life figures in the men’s game. Gene Bartow replaced John Wooden at UCLA. Joe B. Hall followed Adolph Rupp at Kentucky. Bill Guthridge stepped into Dean Smith’s job. Mike Davis was the man who coached Indiana after Bob Knight. None of them came close to matching their predecessors, though it should be noted that all of them won at least one conference title and reached a Final Four. Hall even won a title. But all of them fell short of the high standards set by their predecessors. How could they not?

I fell asleep before I could finish reading this post

 

[volfanIND]

I fell asleep before I could finish reading this post

Not suprised

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

In my post I only compared numbers - facts. I thought it was common knowledge of all the trailblazing that coach Summitt did so there is no need (and not enough space) to go through those accomplishments. I was also replying to the OP who said coach Warlick is taking the program to an all time low - completely misguided

Is the program the same in the 80s/90s/early 2000s. Nope. Again, looking at numbers/facts, lady vols haven't been to a final four in 10 years. THIS is the only fact that Tennessee is failing on. While it's great to have expectations for your team, it's also makes you look absolutely ridiculous and naive to think that Tennessee would/could replace Coach Summitt with another ... Again, sticking with FACTS - let's look back since 2000 and see what coach's have been going to final fours: Geno - 15 , Summitt - 7 , Vanderveer- 7 , McGraw - 6 , Chapman - 5 , Freese - 3 , Goestenkors - 3 , Mulkey - 3 , Hatchell - 2 , Cole - 3 , Walz - 2 , Stringer - 2 , Staley - 2 , Gottlieb - 1 , Peck - 1 , Neighbors - 1 , Blair - 1 , Rueck - 1 , Schaefer - 1 , Hillsman - 1, Conradt - 1 , Borton - 1 , Merchant - 1 , Portland -1 , Burnett - 1

So who should we grab? Not enough money in the world would bring the top 12 coach's to Tennessee because no head coach that has had some success in their program wants to replace a Summitt or a Geno. It's career suicide. Every second of your life is going to be compared to the greatest ... sounds great sign me up!

Holly isn't a perfect coach and at times, there is fault in her just as there is fault with the players. We were more than blessed to have the opportunity to have the success that we did. UCONN at this moment is more than blessed to have the success they are having. Geno will stop coaching and UCONN will not be able to replace him with anything close to what he has accomplished. Success in sports is a double edged sword - eventually you get hit by the other end, will you survive it? So far, we are surviving, while not pretty, we are surviving. How do we know - back to back top 5 recruiting class, currenlty 24-7 and heading into the ncaa tournament probably as a 3 seed. Tennessee Lady Vol basketball is still relevant with coach Warlick (now matter how much you imbecile pitch fork carrying 'fans' say we are not)

An article from 2012 - still relevant:
Is there even a proper comparison for Warlick? By my reckoning, there are four coaches who followed larger-than-life figures in the men’s game. Gene Bartow replaced John Wooden at UCLA. Joe B. Hall followed Adolph Rupp at Kentucky. Bill Guthridge stepped into Dean Smith’s job. Mike Davis was the man who coached Indiana after Bob Knight. None of them came close to matching their predecessors, though it should be noted that all of them won at least one conference title and reached a Final Four. Hall even won a title. But all of them fell short of the high standards set by their predecessors. How could they not?

Lmao. I see why you hid your main point in all that text.

A new coach would not be "replacing" Summitt.

They would be replacing Holly, and that's not such an insurmountable task, is it. I imagine quite a few top coaches would be willing to pluck such low hanging fruit, especially while the roster has top talent.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Lmao. I see why you hid your main point in all that text.

A new coach would not be "replacing" Summitt.

They would be replacing Holly, and that's not such an insurmountable task, is it. I imagine quite a few top coaches would be willing to pluck such low hanging fruit, especially while the roster has top talent.

Yes this whole story could have been replaced with a paragraph

 

[1CHATTVOL]

You are delusional. Holly inherited a team that was top 2 in name recognition and prestige for recruiting, the largest fanbase, the richest history, a roster full of five star players, one of the top recruiting classes, and more.

It's laughable that you want to compare her situation to what Dawn, Vic or Jeff have done with much less. No one in their right mind would believe otherwise.

Two things come to mind:

1. All these assets of the program are discredited by the FAHR HOLLY crowd when it is mentioned that we still have those assets.

2. Following in Pat's footsteps and in the shadow of her death presents its own unique challenges and obstacles to be overcome.

 

[volfanIND]

I see I'm wasting my time. You have the inability to recognize the magnitude of Pat Summitt.

Replace Warlick today, tomorrow, in 10 years. No matter who her replacement will be it all goes back to Summitt. You can compare a new coach to Warlick and the results may turn out better, but that coach will always be compared to Summitt and it won't be pretty. Some of you have already written in your history books the story of Warlick.

And what is that history? In your eyes, she can't coach top talent = no final fours , no championships. So yeah, a coach can come in and 'replace' Warlick and may reach a final four. But you are measuring Warlick to Summitt. Why wouldn't you measure the next coach after Warlick to Summitt? You can say that you won't - but we all will. And what will you all continue to do? Be pointless meanderthals discussing the glory days and bringing no value to any conversation. Will one final four shut you up? Will one national championship shut you up? If you say yes - then your nothing more than a Maryland Brenda Frese follower. I guess I'm just a couple years ahead in my thinking, understanding what our program is going through (the first in women's basketball, but seen on the men's side with my previous comments.) Kim Mulkey just said it herself. “In women's basketball once you lose it, you're not getting it back. My alma mater (Louisiana Tech) struggles to get it back, and I can name some in this league that are struggling to get it back that have won championships.”

 

[1CHATTVOL]

I fell asleep before I could finish reading this post

That's likely because of old age, not a reflection of the post content. Lol

 

[Texas]

I see I'm wasting my time. You have the inability to recognize the magnitude of Pat Summitt.

Replace Warlick today, tomorrow, in 10 years. No matter who her replacement will be it all goes back to Summitt. You can compare a new coach to Warlick and the results may turn out better, but that coach will always be compared to Summitt and it won't be pretty. Some of you have already written in your history books the story of Warlick.

And what is that history? In your eyes, she can't coach top talent = no final fours , no championships. So yeah, a coach can come in and 'replace' Warlick and may reach a final four. But you are measuring Warlick to Summitt. Why wouldn't you measure the next coach after Warlick to Summitt? You can say that you won't - but we all will. And what will you all continue to do? Be pointless meanderthals discussing the glory days and bringing no value to any conversation. Will one final four shut you up? Will one national championship shut you up? If you say yes - then your nothing more than a Maryland Brenda Frese follower. I guess I'm just a couple years ahead in my thinking, understanding what our program is going through (the first in women's basketball, but seen on the men's side with my previous comments.) Kim Mulkey just said it herself. “In women's basketball once you lose it, you're not getting it back. My alma mater (Louisiana Tech) struggles to get it back, and I can name some in this league that are struggling to get it back that have won championships.”

Lots of nice expository writing in these posts. Plus, great history of which I am unaware, that I am grateful for. But creative writing doesn’t change the current basic observations of this team that are hard to dispute: undeveloped talent, poor schemes, poor accountability, bad timeout use, outdated offense, bad defensive rotations, too many TOS, etc, etc ad nauseum.

I also don’t agree with your comparison to the men’s game. The women’s game is different in material ways. There are much fewer schools that have appeal to top HS female players. There are also, very few schools that have created the facilities for their female basketball players that a UConn or TN has. Also, attendance and support in the community is different for the men’s and women’s games. Very few schools in the women’s game have recognition or respect like that associated with the men’s teams A top rated girl from Iowa likely narrows her top teams to Tenn and UConn and the like. And not to Iowa, Iowa state and Drake. Further, the attendance of 10,000 a game can be pretty alluring to recruits. So as a result it is much more likely for the next coach despite early results to keep good recruits coming. Therefore, a good coach could be found that can keep the tradition alive more easily in the women’s game.

Also, because one does not think that Summit can be replaced, does not mean that Tenn should throw in the towel and cling to an excruciatingly subpar coach.

No, one cannot replace Pat Summitt. But, yes, there are far better coaches then Holly to give it a try.

 

[Amb3096]

Two things come to mind:

1. All these assets of the program are discredited by the FAHR HILLY crowd when it is mentioned that we still have those assets.

2. Following in Pat's footsteps and in the shadow of her death presents its own unique challenges and obstacles to be overcome.

1. Those assets are still there, and they are a huge boost for Tennessee with regards to recruiting. Where it's discredited is by Holly Supporters who pretend that having that infrastructure in place didn't give her a huge leg up over any other first-year HC. She was given the keys to the Kingdom instead of having to build a program from scratch like Pat did. Let's not pretend the situations are remotely the same.

2. Yes, it does. I don't disagree with that. However, a competent coach would be able to do more with the resources that were handed to Holly with a ribbon on top. There is no question that she has underachieved with all of her built-in advantages.

 

[Amb3096]

What Pierce said is a no brained, however, it is highly doubtful that Holly has had 20 plus 5 stars or more that were duds. So what Pierce is saying, does not take into account bad coaching which can affect the production, success and development of exceptional players. Remember Pierce said “doesn’t mean” which would lead a prudent person to believe that there are players that are as good as advertised. Also not every coach is a good coach just because they have a bunch of exceptional players. Like all players, exceptional players need development and good coaching.

He dismissed their HS accolades by saying all they were was high school All-Americans...as if there is no correlation between being a top 5 HS player and a top college player. I agree with what you say about coaching, but being a first year coach who inherits a roster full of top 10 players and McD AAs is a huge advantage over another first year coach who only has a bunch of 3-star local kids on his team. If you can't take advantage of that...year after year...it's more likely bad coaching than overrated players.

 

[PointGuard]

Holly went to the E8 in her first season. The program has gone steadily down hill since and with better recruits on the team. Holly has no chance to return this program to those glory years. Those with basket ball knowledge know this to be true. Those thinking only on emotion cling to hope. If the team advances beyond the Sweet 16 it will be because of the players getting it done on their talent not coaching ability.

How many fans will claim "wait till next year"? If Holly could do better she would have by now

 

[Advol]

"
Does Coach Holly Warlick not get that same amount of time and respect that Coach Summitt got? "

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

Short answer..................NO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TnScooby]

So being a #7 seed in your conference tournament is where CHW supporters are comfortable being?? Enjoy..There's more of the same ahead if CHW remains the HC...

 

[sisaq]

Please do yourself and the Lady Vol's a favor and retire graciously.
The job fell into you lap. No one can blame you for taking it. But you can be blamed for taking the Program to all time lows.
Retire, fund raise, ride that Harley and enjoy life. Let some one else attempt to get this thing fixed.
You have given your ALL. Let it go. To do otherwise would be insane.

Amen!!

 

[sisaq]

Get off crack it will ruin your health and dull your senses.

Hahaha

 

[sisaq]

Let’s keep this on a basketball level and not a personal parenting level... especially when people have defended your lack of grammar at times and people personally attacking you and your posts because of the way you expressed yourself in your posts. Whether you are asking that question hypothetically or not. Still not good!

This isn’t an attack just not trying to get into an area where this doesn’t need to go.

What ever u say can never stop me from attacking Holly...lol.. As long as u understand what i meant and kept on crying because I'm telling the truth..She's the worst of the worst lol

I've learnt from my president "Trump" attack me all u can, I'm going to stand and say the truth.

 

[volnationnj]

What ever u say can never stop me from attacking Holly...lol.. As long as u understand what i meant and kept on crying because I'm telling the truth..She's the worst of the worst lol

I've learnt from my president "Trump" attack me all u can, I'm going to stand and say the truth.

Was there any doubt ?