Butch by the numbers

#51
#51
smokey0625 said:
So you'd be good with him if he had won a game three years ago against GA. You rip him, then you say you'd be ok if he had won GA three years ago. That's funny. You want numbers, he's like 15-4 in his last 19. He has the best run over that stretch besides Saban.
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I would be good with him had he won against Georgia-and Arkansas, Oklahoma, two of the other times against Florida and not lost to a downtrodden Arkansas team, and won against South Carolina and Vandy and aTm last year. He SHOULD have won those games and maybe even beaten a tired Bama team from '15. I still say that a good coach would have won that one!

As far as your use of numbers, that's funny! Those four losses you are talking about ALL came last year! Before that, the last loss was before the easy part of the schedule the year before!
 
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#52
#52
smokey0625 said:
So you'd be good with him if he had won a game three years ago against GA. You rip him, then you say you'd be ok if he had won GA three years ago. That's funny. You want numbers, he's like 15-4 in his last 19. He has the best run over that stretch besides Saban.
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And could only make it to the MCB. Nothing to boast about.

The team had the talent to be in ATL and or NY6 bowl the last 2 yrs and the coaching...including firing S&C coach let them down. That's my observation. On top of that....the " we're bowl eligible" and other weak (perception) comments doesn't bring me any hope that it could be any better than what we've seen. Would love to eat crow. Cant praise mediocrity
 
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#53
#53
livefaith said:
There are lies, d#+& lies, and then statistics. While your % may be factual, they are woefully inadequet at telling the true measure of the era. Butch was not only hired to win big % wise. He was first and foremost brought in to stop the bleeding and stabilize a dying patient. Just this year was the roster stocked enough to honestly make a run. Mass injuries and yes (I agree) weak coaching let our chance slip away.

But to take shear W-L % and make a judgment is foolhardy. Do you really believe that Butch Jones would be 14-18 had Alabama hired him to replace CNS after 2012? No, of course not.
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16-3 OOC Record < 14-18 SEC Record

Unless you really count wins against the likes of North Texas, App State, and Ohio to be equal to wins against SEC teams.

Hell, even Dooley managed to go 11-2 in OOC games, but it was his 4-19 SEC record which got him canned. OOC wins mean very little if you aren't winning your conference.
 
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#54
#54
BeardedVol said:
16-3 OOC Record < 14-18 SEC Record

Unless you really count wins against the likes of North Texas, App State, and Ohio to be equal to wins against SEC teams.

Hell, even Dooley managed to go 11-2 in OOC games, but it was his 4-19 SEC record which got him canned. OOC wins mean very little if you aren't winning your conference.
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The same Dooley that bought out the series against UNC? And then lost to them in his only bowl game? :lol:
 
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#56
#56
TAF said:
Purely "by the numbers" there is not much of an argument that Butch has not achieved what he was hired to do @Tennessee...

Butch remains due to his work ethic, the fact that many want anything BUT another change...and his early recruiting prowess.

If it were up to his GAMEDAY coaching, his lack of putting his foot in his mouth with Clichés, or his ability to coach up talent...

He'd be kicking rocks!
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Are you insinuating that Butch doesn't "coach up talent"&#129300;? I only ask because we have some guys that are going into the league this year&#128514;. See, you can't make an argument saying that he can't coach up talent because historical facts will get in your way &#128521;.
 
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#58
#58
My issue with Butch isn't strictly to do with the nine win seasons. I can stand losing to the elite teams when we do ourselves justice. It's the losing to Vanderbilts and South Carolinas because either our entire offense or defense comes undone. That's truly what infuriates me the most about Butch sometimes.
 
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#59
#59
lukeneyland said:
My issue with Butch isn't strictly to do with the nine win seasons. I can stand losing to the elite teams when we do ourselves justice. It's the losing to Vanderbilts and South Carolinas because either our entire offense or defense comes undone. That's truly what infuriates me the most about Butch sometimes.
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I agree. Winning against Florida and Georgia and losing against South Carolina and Vanderbilt cancel each other out and honestly makes you look really bad because they were awful last year. It could either be a awful season or a surprising season.
 
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#60
#60
With a 12 game season 9 wins means squadoosh anymore, just another example of how dumbed down this country is.
 
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#62
#62
IknoxvolsI said:
I would be good with him had he won against Georgia-and Arkansas, Oklahoma, two of the other times against Florida and not lost to a downtrodden Arkansas team, and won against South Carolina and Vandy and aTm last year. He SHOULD have won those games and maybe even beaten a tired Bama team from '15. I still say that a good coach would have won that one!

As far as your use of numbers, that's funny! Those four losses you are talking about ALL came last year! Before that, the last loss was before the easy part of the schedule the year before!
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Back track much. You originally said Ga from three years ago.
 
#64
#64
There's a lot of posting about the # of wins for me it's about the losses.

How many?
1or 2 a year is more than enough. Plan A is zero.

Who did we lose to?
Losing to scrub teams is out of line.

Why did we lose to them?
Losing due to our own poor play or lack or adjustments is out of line.

When did we lose to them?
We should be getting better each week not getting worse. By week 3 we should know what we got and develop a winning game plan based that. 120 was so inconsistent on the field with ball security, penalties and personnel coming up with a winning plan was a crap shoot.

2017 has the makings of a great year.

Release the Beast!
 
#66
#66
How about some facts?

Here goes:

1. I went back to 1940, when for the most part, the Vols were playing 10-11 games per season consistently (give or take)
2. During those 76 years, the Vols won 585 games
3. That comes to 7.7 wins per season on average
4. Out of those 76 seasons, the Vols won 9 or more games 31 times, or 41% of the time
5. Jones has won 9 or more 50% of the time
6. Jones has averaged 7.5 wins per season
7. As for bowl games - the Vols went to 50 bowl games since 1940, or 66% of the time
8. Of those 50 bowl games - the Vols won 27, or 54% of the time
9. Jones has gone to 3 bowls in 4 seasons - or 75% of the time
10. Jones has won all 3 bowls - or 100% of the time

These are just numbers I know and one could poke holes all around but they are factual. Perhaps not apples to apples regarding previous decades....

And I understand Jones sample size is small but with the short term these guys are judged on to turn a program around, you can't discount it either.

I am not advocating for or against but just trying to put some factual perspective around things. IMO - Jones has performed equal to or better (factually) than the long standing traditions and successes that have made this program great.

Flame away ..................
 
#67
#67
livefaith said:
There are lies, d#+& lies, and then statistics. While your % may be factual, they are woefully inadequet at telling the true measure of the era. Butch was not only hired to win big % wise. He was first and foremost brought in to stop the bleeding and stabilize a dying patient. Just this year was the roster stocked enough to honestly make a run. Mass injuries and yes (I agree) weak coaching let our chance slip away.

But to take shear W-L % and make a judgment is foolhardy. Do you really believe that Butch Jones would be 14-18 had Alabama hired him to replace CNS after 2012? No, of course not.
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:lolabove: How is scrutinizing the SEC win/loss ratio foolhardy? It's black and white. Do you really think the powers that be, the ones that make the big decisions up on the hill, are looking at anything else other than the stats that really matter? The numbers don't lie, and I am sure they don't have the time or desire to entertain any pipe dream scenarios like the one you dreamed up in that last sentence.:crazy:
 
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#68
#68
Beats Florida and Georgia in same season.

Loses the division.



Nothing else even needs to be discussed.
 
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#70
#70
volfannbama said:
Record against secw teams maybe?
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Those are just numbers that confirm his incompetence, which we already know from my previous post.


I'd like to know how many teams won 2 out of 3 against: UT, UF, UGA
and
Bama, LSU, Auburn
and still did not win their division.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the answer is 1.
 
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#71
#71
Bowl game appearances in modern football are meaningless in terms of team progress since the requirement is having a 6-6 record, or 5-7 with a high APR.

In 2016 80 out of the 128 teams went to a bowl. In the SEC you can literally go 1-7 in conference play, win all of your OOC games, and still qualify for a bowl.
 
#72
#72
BeardedVol said:
Bowl game appearances in modern football are meaningless in terms of team progress since the requirement is having a 6-6 record, or 5-7 with a high APR.

In 2016 80 out of the 128 teams went to a bowl. In the SEC you can literally go 1-7 in conference play, win all of your OOC games, and still qualify for a bowl.
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r if you are Vandy and USC you can beat Tennessee and make a bowl. :)
 
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#73
#73
BeardedVol said:
Bowl game appearances in modern football are meaningless in terms of team progress since the requirement is having a 6-6 record, or 5-7 with a high APR.

In 2016 80 out of the 128 teams went to a bowl. In the SEC you can literally go 1-7 in conference play, win all of your OOC games, and still qualify for a bowl.
Click to expand...

I agree! &#128077;&#127995;
 
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