Butch by the numbers

[volfan102455]

A few years ago when a heavily underdog team coached by 1st year coach Saban beat a heavily favored team coached by Fulmer, the Bama faithful felt the program was headed in the right direction (he began the game with an on-side kick).

When CBJ beats one or two teams he's supposed to lose too, then there will be quality evidence of his ability and the team's positive trajectory. Until then....? We have threads discussing it.

It is amazing that some of you want to forget about South Carolina the first year.

Let's compare ...

Alabama was 5-2 coming into that game. Yes they won - then they lost the next 4. Tennessee was 4-2 and ranked ONLY 20th.

Tennessee's win in 2013 (CBJ's first year) over South Carolina was more impressive. South Carolina was ranked 11, with a record of 5-1. South Carolina did not lose another game and finished the season ranked # 4.

By your own criteria ... the trajectory was set the first year - just like it was for Saban.

 

[pimo1]

I find the most hilarious premise in the whole op the "cupcakes" we scheduled.

1. We play in the SEC the one conference in America where there is not a single "Cupcake" The mere fact we play in the SEC and play Bama every year means that even if we scheduled 4 highschool teams each year our SOS would still be in the top 25.

2. Put the 4 "cupcakes" we scheduled last year and this year against any other top 25 teams "cupcakes" and you will find ours had little to no frosting in comparison. Our OOC schedule consistently features teams that finish win winning records.

3. Though a 9 win season may be disappointing it is by no means bad or even below average in the grand scheme Especially for a team like UT that has never had a SOS outside the top 10 in my memory.

If you consistently have a top 10 SOS and win 9+ games you are doing good.

 

[IknoxvolsI]

lol....just giving a scenario in which a 9 win season could possibly look worse.

Yeah, like having big time games against big time programs (good teams) such as GA, Okla, Fla, USCe in the bag over the years but lose in the end? That's not progressing! Then, to lose games that should have won such as Vandy, USCe, aTm, Arky? But, squeak out wins against much lesser opponents (OOC) that should have been nothing more than a tune up is still not progressing. Now, not every team gets up for those types of games so have to be fair about this comment.

 

[governmentmule]

well what is the bar set at ? isn't Bama at less than 9 wins a year for an average ? and UT isn't far behind ?

I may be wrong,but I don't think so

 

[Defaultuser]

well what is the bar set at ? isn't Bama at less than 9 wins a year for an average ? and UT isn't far behind ?

I may be wrong,but I don't think so

Wut?

 

[YorkVol]

Using next year as an example. Let's say we go 9-3 (8-0).

That means we lose to three out of these four.

Ga Tech
Indiana State
UMass
Southern Miss

Even with a SECCG...you probably are not a playoff team and wouldn't deserve to be.

Yeah. I'm going to be pretty pissed off.

I'd be a mess. I mean we beat bama, Florida,Georgia and Vandy but had at least the let down games in between. This is back to Johnny Majors days.

 

[smokey0625]

This isn't a bash Butch per-se, but, I read alot of defenders speaking of a 9 (nine) win season as if that is a major accomplishment. While I give the accolade that it is much better than the losing seasons that go back to '08 (excluding CLK lone season), the 9 win season only correlates to winning 69%. This is not 1985 where a 9 win season was an accomplishment or an impressive feat! Now, add in all of the cup cake games that have been scheduled in and 9 wins really is not all that impressive.

Now, this is not another or typical bash Butch thread but, he should have had at least two more wins each season than he has had beginning with the '14 season and he should have had three for '15. 10-2 is much, much better than 9-4 especially when one adds in a weak opponent for the past three bowls!

So, how can one say the program is headed in the right direction? I could see it if we would have pulled the GA '14 game like we should have. And, maybe the OK or/and FLA, ARK of '15 and ran the course against USEe, aTm and Vandy last year but Butch has not improved.

Just my thoughts so flame away VN!

So you'd be good with him if he had won a game three years ago against GA. You rip him, then you say you'd be ok if he had won GA three years ago. That's funny. You want numbers, he's like 15-4 in his last 19. He has the best run over that stretch besides Saban.

 

[OneVolNation]

When people start of with these...

It's not the money....

Don't take this the wrong way....


and/or use the word "but" anywhere in the first sentence of any sentence....

That is EXACTLY what they mean...

:lolabove: This.

A girlfriend had this setup she'd use right before she'd tell a lie not realizing she always said the same thing just before lying. It must have worked on the men before me or maybe they just didn't care.

"Well, if you really wanna know the truth
then _______ (<---- inserted lie here)."

I thought it was the worst way in the world to lie because to me it was obvious like a "tell" in poker or someone loading up for a sucker punch.

[rant]
Of course I want to know the truth. Now I know for sure that whatever you said before was a lie and there isn't much confidence that you'll suddenly become honest with whatever you say next. [/rant]

She's now an ex-girlfriend. lol.

 

[volfannbama]

I wasn't pumping. When I see the same ole posters in every thread being negative I will gladly point it out. I have no idea why you'll don't make a negative thread so that you can say the same things over and over so that you'll get your likes your aching for.


Ex. The weightroom thread. Rock is new and we have new recruits. I like being able to read what's new with the team I love withought having to scroll through 20 posts of bulls#!t.

If you like reading about whats new, why not go to a news site? Rock was hired and the kids are lifting weights, there is literally nothing to be learned in the thread.

 

[volfannbama]

It is amazing that some of you want to forget about South Carolina the first year.

Let's compare ...

Alabama was 5-2 coming into that game. Yes they won - then they lost the next 4. Tennessee was 4-2 and ranked ONLY 20th.

Tennessee's win in 2013 (CBJ's first year) over South Carolina was more impressive. South Carolina was ranked 11, with a record of 5-1. South Carolina did not lose another game and finished the season ranked # 4.

By your own criteria ... the trajectory was set the first year - just like it was for Saban.

And since then CBJ has lost to Vandy twice? Has Saban made a trend of losing to bottomfeeders?

 

[volfannbama]

I find the most hilarious premise in the whole op the "cupcakes" we scheduled.

1. We play in the SEC the one conference in America where there is not a single "Cupcake" The mere fact we play in the SEC and play Bama every year means that even if we scheduled 4 highschool teams each year our SOS would still be in the top 25.

2. Put the 4 "cupcakes" we scheduled last year and this year against any other top 25 teams "cupcakes" and you will find ours had little to no frosting in comparison. Our OOC schedule consistently features teams that finish win winning records.

3. Though a 9 win season may be disappointing it is by no means bad or even below average in the grand scheme Especially for a team like UT that has never had a SOS outside the top 10 in my memory.

If you consistently have a top 10 SOS and win 9+ games you are doing good.

The SEC is not really that good anymore. When 2 of your loses are teams that make a bowl by beating you, 9 wins is not good.

 

[butchna]

And since then CBJ has lost to Vandy twice? Has Saban made a trend of losing to bottomfeeders?

Is it a "trend" when you lose to a more talented BOWL team your first season, blow them out for two straight seasons and then lose to them when your team is walking on one leg and they're fresh off of some upset wins (Georgia &Ole Miss) AND end up a bowl team? Unacceptable? Agree. Not getting your "trend".

 

[hohenfelsvol]

So what's your point? Yeah, we all wanted to win more games.

Last season was last season, and it's over now. Get ready for 2017 and quitcher bishen.

Those who forget about the past are doomed to repeat it. Over and over.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

lol....just giving a scenario in which a 9 win season could possibly look worse.

So you are trying to find the worst situation to put Tennessee football down, even if they go undefeated in a SEC season. I am sure you will find another "worst" situation before the end of the day. Give it a break for a few days and see if you feel better.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

If you like reading about whats new, why not go to a news site? Rock was hired and the kids are lifting weights, there is literally nothing to be learned in the thread.

This is my go to news site for team news. There's a reason Freak made the site and I'm sure it has something to do with how the others are run/who runs them.

There is alot to be learned in the thread like names of guys hitting their best and a great video of them working hard.

The most important "news" I got from the video was, I didn't see you anywhere in it lifting weights and putting in the blood, sweat, and tears.

 

[Behr]

If you like reading about whats new, why not go to a news site? Rock was hired and the kids are lifting weights, there is literally nothing to be learned in the thread.

Good grief Volfannbama, I don't know which makes less sense, this post or the likes it received.

 

[butchna]

So you are trying to find the worst situation to put Tennessee football down, even if they go undefeated in a SEC season. I am sure you will find another "worst" situation before the end of the day. Give it a break for a few days and see if you feel better.

It was a preemptive strike. He's a Marine.

 

[vol4him]

I guess by numbers, the poster means wins and losses. Mostly, it was a bunch of opinions, not numbers:
1. Our bowl opponents weren't good (says who? You?)
2. Our schedule was weak (says who? You?)
3. 10-2 is better than 9-3 (wow, that's some great analysis)
Numbers would be like points per game vs. points by appointments.
Defensive stats, offensive stats, special teams stats.
Of course, the poster didn't want to use these, because they show the progress we are making. Don't worry, if we are still at 9 wins in two years, you will not have to make the sell (or clarify, you aren't bashing)

 

[livefaith]

This isn't a bash Butch per-se, but, I read alot of defenders speaking of a 9 (nine) win season as if that is a major accomplishment. While I give the accolade that it is much better than the losing seasons that go back to '08 (excluding CLK lone season), the 9 win season only correlates to winning 69%. This is not 1985 where a 9 win season was an accomplishment or an impressive feat! Now, add in all of the cup cake games that have been scheduled in and 9 wins really is not all that impressive.

Now, this is not another or typical bash Butch thread but, he should have had at least two more wins each season than he has had beginning with the '14 season and he should have had three for '15. 10-2 is much, much better than 9-4 especially when one adds in a weak opponent for the past three bowls!

So, how can one say the program is headed in the right direction? I could see it if we would have pulled the GA '14 game like we should have. And, maybe the OK or/and FLA, ARK of '15 and ran the course against USEe, aTm and Vandy last year but Butch has not improved.

Just my thoughts so flame away VN!

Well, there is no other way to describe coming out of the cardboard box under the staircase and into the worst apartment in the building. We ain't in the penthouse yet, but we've at least got running water, heat, and a door that locks.

 

[The Crimson Cried]

If UT football were a stock that sat at $1 after the 98 championship, it dropped to .60 in Fulmer's final year, .40 when Kiffin left, and .25 in Dooley's final year. Butch has us back up to about .65. Huge accomplishment, but he is not the guy to take us back to $1. That is my opinion for what it worth. I will always appreciate him, but he is not a natty level coach. .65 is our Butch peak, and from here we will just drop until the AD steps in and acts based on reality. If they are ok with 7-9 wins for the next decade then Butch will be our guy for a while. If they are looking for more than that (and I hope they are) then I believe a new hire is necessary. No natty level coach drops the Vandy game with the stakes being what they were.

 

[HARTUPM]

Came in here expecting numbers.

Leaving disappointed.

Me too. Everything gets so watered down. His SEC record is much more important anyways, and Butch's record after 4 seasons is a below mediocre 14-18. So basically we are paying him a top 10 in the country salary of 4.6 million a year to win 43.5 percent of his in conference games... the games that either get you to the SEC championship or the lame duck bowl games. That is sad really and far, far overshadows the fluffed up "9 win" argument.

 

[livefaith]

Me too. Everything gets so watered down. His SEC record is much more important anyways, and Butch's record after 4 seasons is a below mediocre 14-18. So basically we are paying him a top 10 in the country salary of 4.6 million a year to win 43.5 percent of his in conference games... the games that either get you to the SEC championship or the lame duck bowl games. That is sad really and far, far overshadows the fluffed up "9 win" argument.

There are lies, d#+& lies, and then statistics. While your % may be factual, they are woefully inadequet at telling the true measure of the era. Butch was not only hired to win big % wise. He was first and foremost brought in to stop the bleeding and stabilize a dying patient. Just this year was the roster stocked enough to honestly make a run. Mass injuries and yes (I agree) weak coaching let our chance slip away.

But to take shear W-L % and make a judgment is foolhardy. Do you really believe that Butch Jones would be 14-18 had Alabama hired him to replace CNS after 2012? No, of course not.

 

[sechamp2012]

It is amazing that some of you want to forget about South Carolina the first year.

Let's compare ...

Alabama was 5-2 coming into that game. Yes they won - then they lost the next 4. Tennessee was 4-2 and ranked ONLY 20th.

Tennessee's win in 2013 (CBJ's first year) over South Carolina was more impressive. South Carolina was ranked 11, with a record of 5-1. South Carolina did not lose another game and finished the season ranked # 4.

By your own criteria ... the trajectory was set the first year - just like it was for Saban.

No facts allowed
Didn't you get the talking points.

 

[BaldBiker]

So you are trying to find the worst situation to put Tennessee football down, even if they go undefeated in a SEC season. I am sure you will find another "worst" situation before the end of the day. Give it a break for a few days and see if you feel better.

WTF are you even talking about? Context buddy.

People were bemoaning a nine win season like the sky is falling. I was giving a scenario in which a 9 win season could be considered worse.

 

[99gator]

There isn't much on this site that is as delicious as seeing people constantly ripping Fulmer to shreds and then showing displeasure by the fact that Tennessee doesn't currently win at that level.

This is the norm. Historically, Tennessee has these kind of seasons mixed in with a couple of bad seasons and a couple of great seasons during a decade.