Black Coaches (split)

[swampfoxfan]

Not wanting to make this a race issue but hiring a young, intelligent, articulate, full of fire, black coordinator just makes sense. Would be a great response to big albert.

 

[onevol74]

Not wanting to make this a race issue but hiring a young, intelligent, articulate, full of fire, black coordinator just makes sense. Would be a great response to big albert.

Since I am an All Lives Matter guy, why would his race be an issue or an advantage if he is capable of doing the job?

 

[swampfoxfan]

Since I am an All Lives Matter guy, why would his race be an issue or an advantage if he is capable of doing the job?

Well ALM guy. Most college football players are black, most coaches are not. To me Washington is well qualified to be our next DC. It's an opportunity for UT to show equal opportunity isn't just a slogan.

 

[sjt18]

Well ALM guy. Most college football players are black, most coaches are not. To me Washington is well qualified to be our next DC. It's an opportunity for UT to show equal opportunity isn't just a slogan.

Really? How many times does it have to be proven that qualified minority men will be hired in significant roles before you stop playing this card? I really do not care what color a person is. I care about their character and ability. That's how people should be hired... and NOT by skin color regardless of who it benefits.

If headcounts equal justice then why aren't you advocating that 70% of scholarships go to "qualified" white kids and another 15% to Hispanic kids? I mean should their lack of equal skill really prevent them from getting "equal opportunity"?

The double standard you want has nothing to do with justice or even helping minorities advance in American society. Offer "equal opportunity" but DEMAND that the superior candidate win without ANY regard to how much melanin they have in their skin.

 

[swampfoxfan]

Really? How many times does it have to be proven that qualified minority men will be hired in significant roles before you stop playing this card? I really do not care what color a person is. I care about their character and ability. That's how people should be hired... and NOT by skin color regardless of who it benefits.

If headcounts equal justice then why aren't you advocating that 70% of scholarships go to "qualified" white kids and another 15% to Hispanic kids? I mean should their lack of equal skill really prevent them from getting "equal opportunity"?

The double standard you want has nothing to do with justice or even helping minorities advance in American society. Offer "equal opportunity" but DEMAND that the superior candidate win without ANY regard to how much melanin they have in their skin.

Get in touch with reality

 

[swampfoxfan]

What is more important to you? Race, or success?

Stupid stupid question

 

[Orange_Crush]

Well ALM guy. Most college football players are black, most coaches are not. To me Washington is well qualified to be our next DC. It's an opportunity for UT to show equal opportunity isn't just a slogan.

Hiring someone because they are a certain color is the opposite of "equal opportunity".

 

[sjt18]

Get in touch with reality

I am. Completely. You on the other hand seem to be untethered. Discrimination including discrimination by race occurs. It always has. It always will. But it is VERY minimal in the US today. Unequal outcomes are NOT evidence of discrimination. The most JUST society you can have is one that pursues equality of opportunity PERIOD.

I've done well. I have a great job with significant responsibility and good pay. I grew up in a lower middle class home in one of the poorest counties in southern Appalachia. My parents by modern measures came out of extreme poverty. My public school came up short in its ability to prepare us for competition at top colleges. Other than having two great parents... I faced most of the disadvantages that SJW's complain about. I've had several set backs and disappointments in my career to include reverse discrimination. In all that... I was responsible for what I did with my blessings and challenges. My accent held me back so I learned to be more "professional". I worked harder than my peers. I didn't give up even when I really had been treated unfairly.

I don't hate or resent anyone and especially not because of their race. But I DO resent the idea that it is my fault that someone fails when they're failure is a product of their own repeated bad decisions.

The left leaning Brookings Institute proved that behavior is by far and away the dominant factor in a person's success. When young people finish high school, stay away from crime, and wait until marriage to have children... their prospects for work and success are comparable regardless of their race.

It isn't color... it is culture. It is self-destructive behavior and decisions. Right now in corporations there is more discrimination IN FAVOR of black applicants than against them. I have yet to work for a company that was not looking for ways to find and hire qualified black people especially in entry level managerial roles. You cannot hire people who do not apply. You cannot promote people who do not perform.

 

[Unimane]

Hiring someone because they are a certain color is the opposite of "equal opportunity".

When one group has had significantly less opportunity than the other, then, yes, creating opportunity to rectify this is absolutely equal opportunity. He's a good coach, anyway.

 

[Orange_Crush]

When one group has had significantly less opportunity than the other, then, yes, creating opportunity to rectify this is absolutely equal opportunity. He's a good coach, anyway.

Hiring based on race is the opposite of "equal opportunity". It is trying to enforce equal results at the expense of equal opportunity.

 

[Unimane]

Hiring based on race is the opposite of "equal opportunity". It is trying to enforce equal results at the expense of equal opportunity.

If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

All this and Washington still doesn't get a whiff of this job unless he's good enough to prospectively keep it, meaning they think he'll do a good job at it. And, that's how it always works for "equal opportunity" anyway.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

All this and Washington still doesn't get a whiff of this job unless he's good enough to prospectively keep it, meaning they think he'll do a good job at it. And, that's how it always works for "equal opportunity" anyway.

Just stop with the race BS. It’s people like you that are worsening the race problem in this country.

 

[Orange_Crush]

If the world operated in a vacuum, then you might have a point, but it doesn't, and neither are they simply hiring some random guy because he's black. It's this kind of silly logic which gets us the level of disparity in the first place and pretends the divide exists for completely legitimate reasons. Rather it's something certain groups whine about when their relative domination of a job, group, opportunity, etc. is disrupted by interlopers who dare to tread on the territory of people who have been given every advantage as possible over them.

You want to have a level playing field? Then eliminate every advantage white coaches have been given through the long history of unequal opportunities, i.e. unequal results, and then we'll pretend the vacuum you promote here has any semblance of existence.

I'm not whining. I'm stating facts. Taking race into account in any way is not "equal opportunity". It is enforced "equal results". The above seems to be an agreement with those facts. Using correct vocabulary and legitimate logic is not what got us to our current "level of disparity" in this country. By and large, the destruction of the black nuclear family has been the largest culprit there as far as I can tell.

As to the bold, great way to show off your bigoted stereotypes.

Good evening, sir or ma'am.

 

[Unimane]

Just stop with the race BS. It’s people like you that are worsening the race problem in this country.

Uh, no, it's not. It's just merely inconvenient and people don't like to have to consider the problem if they don't have to do so. There are plenty who aren't this fortunate and ignoring it is the actual problem.

I will say I've taken it on a deeper tangent than expected, but the foolish takes were aggravating. Regardless, you can always ignore the problem, since it seems as if you are well adept at doing so.

In the end, I hope they hire Washington because he seems like he'll do a good job.

 

[Unimane]

I'm not whining. I'm stating facts. Taking race into account in any way is not "equal opportunity". It is enforced "equal results". The above seems to be an agreement with those facts. Using correct vocabulary and legitimate logic is not what got us to our current "level of disparity" in this country. By and large, the destruction of the black nuclear family has been the largest culprit there as far as I can tell.

As to the bold, great way to show off your bigoted stereotypes.

Good evening, sir or ma'am.

You are not stating facts. You don't even know how this is an issue "as far as I can tell" to begin to know the facts. If you don't know, then you shouldn't speak from any kind of authoritative statement or position. The worst part is complete ignorance of this, then a quick retreat to victimhood you so quickly denounce for others. Again, the ignorance is aggravating.

But, that'll be the last of this from me. I've derailed the thread enough by responding to this silliness. Please ignore my tangent, people, if it is too much of an annoyance.

 

[swampfoxfan]

Ok, I guess I'll believe "wokeswampfan" over multiple reports from credible writers saying we were turned down by both Franklin and Elliot. I guess Charlie Strong leaving us at the altar years ago was all made up too. Ya know, if you go looking for something to offend you or hurt your feelings you're most likely going to find it. Have a good one. Hopefully that rain cloud will leave you alone one day.

LOL my days are bright and shiny, you seem to be the one with inflamed hemorrhoids.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Maybe. Or he could feel like "I'll show them if I get the chance". Hard to say where he is. Maybe after going through what he just went through at Auburn he's amenable to the idea of taking a step back and maybe even mentoring a guy like Washington while being a position coach? Maybe he's willing to be DC but would prefer less pressure at this point?

There are a million what ifs that do not assume the worst.

I think a lot of people are making assumptions when their perspective might be a million miles off.

Steele is going to get his $2.5M for 2 years so there is that and, as others suggested, maybe he DID come to TN for the love of the Vols and is willing to help out wherever he can.

Certainly Butch coasted on cash as an analyst at Bama and now is a HC again. Maybe Steele IS content as a position coach or, ugh.... though, being the "we went through a process" choice for DC.

He's not a bad coach. He's a strong recruiter. The timing of this whole thing was just awkward.

 

[maxxx]

Just stop with the race BS. It’s people like you that are worsening the race problem in this country.

So, the guy pointing out racism and why it exists is a problem, but the guy loosing his f'ing mind because people acknowledge racism exists, isn't a problem?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Uh, no, it's not. It's just merely inconvenient and people don't like to have to consider the problem if they don't have to do so. There are plenty who aren't this fortunate and ignoring it is the actual problem.

I will say I've taken it on a deeper tangent than expected, but the foolish takes were aggravating. Regardless, you can always ignore the problem, since it seems as if you are well adept at doing so.

In the end, I hope they hire Washington because he seems like he'll do a good job.

Like I said you are part of the problem. And obviously you don’t even know it. Your post is what keeps black people down. It diminishes their abilities and accomplishments. The color of a persons skin has NOTHING to do with their potential for success. But hey keep pushing the woke, social justice warrior agenda of race baiting. Meanwhile the adults will go back to meaningful discussion.

 

[swampfoxfan]

I am. Completely. You on the other hand seem to be untethered. Discrimination including discrimination by race occurs. It always has. It always will. But it is VERY minimal in the US today. Unequal outcomes are NOT evidence of discrimination. The most JUST society you can have is one that pursues equality of opportunity PERIOD.

I've done well. I have a great job with significant responsibility and good pay. I grew up in a lower middle class home in one of the poorest counties in southern Appalachia. My parents by modern measures came out of extreme poverty. My public school came up short in its ability to prepare us for competition at top colleges. Other than having two great parents... I faced most of the disadvantages that SJW's complain about. I've had several set backs and disappointments in my career to include reverse discrimination. In all that... I was responsible for what I did with my blessings and challenges. My accent held me back so I learned to be more "professional". I worked harder than my peers. I didn't give up even when I really had been treated unfairly.

I don't hate or resent anyone and especially not because of their race. But I DO resent the idea that it is my fault that someone fails when they're failure is a product of their own repeated bad decisions.

The left leaning Brookings Institute proved that behavior is by far and away the dominant factor in a person's success. When young people finish high school, stay away from crime, and wait until marriage to have children... their prospects for work and success are comparable regardless of their race.

It isn't color... it is culture. It is self-destructive behavior and decisions. Right now in corporations there is more discrimination IN FAVOR of black applicants than against them. I have yet to work for a company that was not looking for ways to find and hire qualified black people especially in entry level managerial roles. You cannot hire people who do not apply. You cannot promote people who do not perform.

Wowsy, we are all proud of you. But you have thrown out a lot of garbage that has no bearing on the post I made. Get a dose of reality.

 

[Volinnooga]

Is Matt Daniel supposed to be someone we should know?

yep--he's the guy that don't know crap.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You are not stating facts. You don't even know how this is an issue "as far as I can tell" to begin to know the facts. If you don't know, then you shouldn't speak from any kind of authoritative statement or position. The worst part is complete ignorance of this, then a quick retreat to victimhood you so quickly denounce for others. Again, the ignorance is aggravating.

But, that'll be the last of this from me. I've derailed the thread enough by responding to this silliness. Please ignore my tangent, people, if it is too much of an annoyance.

Stating that hiring based on race is not "equal opportunity" is a fact. It's indisputable. You agree with it, by the way, in the inverse argument that you make. (i.e. that blacks aren't getting equal opportunity b/c colleges supposedly take whiteness into account when hiring.)

Stating that you're arguing for "equal results" is a fact.

I'm merely asking you to use honesty in discussion. Claiming that you're seeking equal opportunity is disingenuous, and your underlying argument is more easily exposed when it becomes clear that you're actually arguing for subtle forms of reparations in the name of "equal opportunity".

And I haven't retreated to any sort of victimhood. I've pointed out your hypocrisy. Short of meeting me on the street and pulling a weapon on me, there's no way you can make me a victim. I've taken responsibility for my life, which makes it that much harder for you to victimize me.

You made a bigoted generalization. Just own it and move on.

And I agree on letting this go. This isn't the political forum, and it's best that we don't turn it into that. There's enough toxicity in the football forum with the state of the program.

I genuinely hope you have a wonderful evening and all blessings in life.

Shalom.

 

[Unimane]

Like I said you are part of the problem. And obviously you don’t even know it. Your post is what keeps black people down. It diminishes their abilities and accomplishments. The color of a persons skin has NOTHING to do with their potential for success. But hey keep pushing the woke, social justice warrior agenda of race baiting. Meanwhile the adults will go back to meaningful discussion.

Yes, it's people talking about and advocating giving black people more opportunities which has been the problem. I don't know if it registers in your head how absurd your post sounds, along with the one you wrote right above mine here, but you should reread them until you do.

 

[swampfoxfan]

So, is it your argument that we should hire based on promoting the idea to kids that it's a good thing when they prefer not to be coached by someone of a different race?

Read a lot into things don't you. OK in simple terms over 90% of the athletes on football fields are black. Having a black DC is not a BAD thing. Other than previous DC experence he checks all the boxes. Seems I remember a world renown DC who couldn't teach how to defend a slant. Give the man a chance based on his knowledge, being black is icing on the cake.

 

[CAVPUT]

I am. Completely. You on the other hand seem to be untethered. Discrimination including discrimination by race occurs. It always has. It always will. But it is VERY minimal in the US today. Unequal outcomes are NOT evidence of discrimination. The most JUST society you can have is one that pursues equality of opportunity PERIOD.

I've done well. I have a great job with significant responsibility and good pay. I grew up in a lower middle class home in one of the poorest counties in southern Appalachia. My parents by modern measures came out of extreme poverty. My public school came up short in its ability to prepare us for competition at top colleges. Other than having two great parents... I faced most of the disadvantages that SJW's complain about. I've had several set backs and disappointments in my career to include reverse discrimination. In all that... I was responsible for what I did with my blessings and challenges. My accent held me back so I learned to be more "professional". I worked harder than my peers. I didn't give up even when I really had been treated unfairly.

I don't hate or resent anyone and especially not because of their race. But I DO resent the idea that it is my fault that someone fails when they're failure is a product of their own repeated bad decisions.

The left leaning Brookings Institute proved that behavior is by far and away the dominant factor in a person's success. When young people finish high school, stay away from crime, and wait until marriage to have children... their prospects for work and success are comparable regardless of their race.

It isn't color... it is culture. It is self-destructive behavior and decisions. Right now in corporations there is more discrimination IN FAVOR of black applicants than against them. I have yet to work for a company that was not looking for ways to find and hire qualified black people especially in entry level managerial roles. You cannot hire people who do not apply. You cannot promote people who do not perform.

Well said. It's a flat out shame that the message will be lost on many. Sadly, I have but one like to give.