Agree with me or not, I just have to say it

#26
#26
aaronvol said:
Just a side note. When we are discussing this particular topic there seems to be a canned response regarding Holly and the future of the program. What no one ever really discusses is that while you're watching women's basketball it is just impossible to calculate from season to season... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... sorry. I was reading and writing about Lady Vols basketball and fell asleep again.
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Triple-facePalm.jpg
 
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#27
#27
T_Vol376 said:
He has a right to his is opinion just like everyone else on here. In typical Holly-hater fashion, anyone who does not agree is attacked.

And before y'all start preaching to me about how "you have nothing against Holly personally," I DO believe that about some of you - but the last couple of days I have seen on this board where one poster said, and I quote: "I hate Holly Warlick - I mean I literally hate her," and another referred to her as a "man-woman." That kind of bulls*** has no business on here. A week or so ago, one poster suggested "locker room play" was the reason one player got playing time. It was quickly deleted. It is hard for me to fathom how someone could be so vile as to say such a disgusting thing.

When you include personal attacks in your comments, anything - any criticism you render or complaint you have about the program becomes completely irrelevant to me, because it is at that point it is apparent to me that you are nothing but a hater. If the state of basketball program affects your personal life that greatly, you are really sad. If the state of a basketball program makes you literally hate a person, you may be psychotic.

Carry on.
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That's the really sad part of it all. The scathing attacks against players, coaches and fans is unprofessional but unfortunately is condoned as "forum freedom" by those who are relentless in doing it. We all get the main negavol complaint that CHW can't coach so the players don't play well. We don't need hundreds of post repeats to understand the basic negavol position just like we don't need posts which say she-man or disparages what a coach wears. All that is over the top frustration. Why don't people conduct themselves like they would if they were standing in front of someone rather than hiding behind a keyboard?

All of us fans are disappointed in how this season is unfolding. Some posters provide very good analysis of what some of the issues are (you know who they are) but there are many who drop by just to flame or make personal attacks.

While I don't agree with some of the analysis, and sometimes post alternative hypotheses, I do respect most of the posts that provide some modicum of thoughtful analyses. Some are actually thought provoking and have a persuasive element to them. Some have opened my eyes to things I have not considered. I hope those posters continue to submit their analysis and do not allow themselves to be jaded by others. Those drive by posters who just drop in to insult or flame can feel free to provide constructive criticism that will provide value to this forum.
 
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#28
#28
Rickster said:
That's the really sad part of it all. The scathing attacks against players, coaches and fans is unprofessional but unfortunately is condoned as "forum freedom" by those who are relentless in doing it. We all get the main negavol complaint that CHW can't coach so the players don't play well. We don't need hundreds of post repeats to understand the basic negavol position just like we don't need posts which say she-man or disparages what a coach wears. All that is over the top frustration. Why don't people conduct themselves like they would if they were standing in front of someone rather than hiding behind a keyboard?

All of us fans are disappointed in how this season is unfolding. Some posters provide very good analysis of what some of the issues are (you know who they are) but there are many who drop by just to flame or make personal attacks.

While I don't agree with some of the analysis, and sometimes post alternative hypotheses, I do respect most of the posts that provide some modicum of thoughtful analyses. Some are actually thought provoking and have a persuasive element to them. Some have opened my eyes to things I have not considered. I hope those posters continue to submit their analysis and do not allow themselves to be jaded by others. Those drive by posters who just drop in to insult or flame can feel free to provide constructive criticism that will provide value to this forum.
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Great post, Rickster. You're so much more eloquent than me. Yeah, I sure don't understand some of the things I see on here. Like you, I find that many of the posters I don't necessarily agree with do make very insightful posts and yes, I know the ones you mean and they are fair and respectful in their comments. And I don't even know what to make of the one lobbying for a job on here. I saw him in action in TBA last Sunday....quite amazing. (Interesting) This is an interesting place and a complicated fanbase for sure....
 
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#29
#29
Rickster said:
That's the really sad part of it all. The scathing attacks against players, coaches and fans is unprofessional but unfortunately is condoned as "forum freedom" by those who are relentless in doing it. We all get the main negavol complaint that CHW can't coach so the players don't play well. We don't need hundreds of post repeats to understand the basic negavol position just like we don't need posts which say she-man or disparages what a coach wears. All that is over the top frustration. Why don't people conduct themselves like they would if they were standing in front of someone rather than hiding behind a keyboard?

All of us fans are disappointed in how this season is unfolding. Some posters provide very good analysis of what some of the issues are (you know who they are) but there are many who drop by just to flame or make personal attacks.

While I don't agree with some of the analysis, and sometimes post alternative hypotheses, I do respect most of the posts that provide some modicum of thoughtful analyses. Some are actually thought provoking and have a persuasive element to them. Some have opened my eyes to things I have not considered. I hope those posters continue to submit their analysis and do not allow themselves to be jaded by others. Those drive by posters who just drop in to insult or flame can feel free to provide constructive criticism that will provide value to this forum.
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Well stated.
 
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#30
#30
Chris89128 said:
First and foremost I am a DIE-HARD Lady Vol basketball fan. With that said I have to get a few things off my chest.

Let me first start off by saying, I am not making excuses for the rollercoaster of a season this has been. We have won games we should not have on paper and lost ones we should not have as well.

Regarding yesterday's game:

We missed way too many layups, across the board. Russell missed at least 4 herself. I am trying my best to not call out individual players, but why does Jackson always seem to showboat when trying to make a layup?

She did that twice and missed both times. Nared has no sense of time and score either. Several times this season she has taken a shot which should have been the last shot of the quarter way too early and it has cost us.

The fact remains we have no TRUE PG on this team. That was obvious yesterday. Without someone willing to step up as a floor general and leader, this team will continue to have ups and downs.

The out of bounds missed call late in the game yesterday was huge. It amazes me that fans, and no one media included except Maria has even mentioned it. Instead of being up 3 with the ball, you are now tied. With that one call your in-game strategy completely changes, as does the pressure. Yes I know we gave up too many offensive rebounds and jacked up too many shots, but if you watch the game, A&M was pushing and shoving all game, and very few fouls were called.

Regarding Holly, yes she has her flaws. In my opinion, she does not use timeouts enough. The lack of depth this year is on her. She should have cut Elzy loose before last season. I truly believe the tension and disagreement between them cost us in recruiting for 2016. We are paying the price for it now and it's hard to watch at times I think Holly doesn't get enough credit for turning the recruiting around. Signing the number 1 class, especially with four top 15 kids, according to several recruiting services is hard to do. Especially in this day and age. I know her assistants play a huge role in recruiting, but ultimately they all wanted to play for Holly. If you read any story about each of them, they all say it. She has followed it up with two strong recruits for 2018. I truly believe come November we will have another exceptional class.

Losing Cooper turned out to be a bigger blow than I thought. I guess I expected JR as the lone senior to step up and take ownership of this team. In my opinion, she has not done that which I find disappointing.

I will say, I was surprised, listening to Holly while mic'd during the Missouri game, the woman knows how to coach. She gave the team clear instructions and made good adjustments as needed. With the way people criticize her, I expected to hear nonsense and gibberish during timeouts.

I for one think the media and fans have been exceedingly hard on this team all year. They have played one of the toughest schedules in the country, have some bad losses, and some great wins. I will never understand how teams like Arizona State, Syracuse, and Kansas State stay ranked and Tennessee doesn't. Compare wins and losses, RPI, SOS, to me it just doesn't add up. JMO.

Lastly, I don't know how this season will end, but I am one fan who even though frustrated at times will hold on tight and hope this team makes a deep run in March.
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Spot on. Don't worry about the inevitable flaming as it will be predictable. You already know from history who will try to turn your post around to fit their opinion. Thanks for sharing your insights and please continue to post your thoughts.
 
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#31
#31
T_Vol376 said:
Great post, Rickster. You're so much more eloquent than me. Yeah, I sure don't understand some of the things I see on here. Like you, I find that many of the posters I don't necessarily agree with do make very insightful posts and yes, I know the ones you mean and they are fair and respectful in their comments. And I don't even know what to make of the one lobbying for a job on here. I saw him in action in TBA last Sunday....quite amazing. (Interesting) This is an interesting place and a complicated fanbase for sure....
Click to expand...

At the TAMU game?..I wasn't in my usual seat.
I was sitting with a friend. I hope "quite amazing" isn't followed by "bless his heart":eek:hmy:

Wish you'd said hello.
I enjoy meeting the people who have perceived expectations of me.

You weren't the man behind me were you?
 
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#32
#32
Coach Jumper said:
At the TAMU game?..I wasn't in my usual seat.
I was sitting with a friend. I hope quite amazing meant isn't followed by "bless his heart":eek:hmy:

Wish you'd said hello.
I enjoy meeting the people who have perceived expectations of me.

You weren't the man behind me were you?
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No.... I was not the man behind you. 🙂
 
#35
#35
Amb3096 said:
Coaches poll isn't out yet. They will drop out for sure
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2017 Women's College Basketball Rankings and Polls for Week 15 - ESPN

I clicked the "complete rankings" link.. . After a second glance, yes, it is from the sixth,
but it does show the TAMU loss. What hasn't been done is the movement of this list itself.
So yes, you may be right.

I still think we will be #25 though...The team above us (Calif.) at #24 lost two games, while the team below us (WVA) lost one and won one. and the next team, TAMU, won two.

That said, Cal should drop below us, TAMU ahead of us and WVA will probably drop further down the rankings.
 
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#36
#36
Chris89128 said:
First and foremost I am a DIE-HARD Lady Vol basketball fan. With that said I have to get a few things off my chest.

Let me first start off by saying, I am not making excuses for the rollercoaster of a season this has been. We have won games we should not have on paper and lost ones we should not have as well.

Regarding yesterday's game:

We missed way too many layups, across the board. Russell missed at least 4 herself. I am trying my best to not call out individual players, but why does Jackson always seem to showboat when trying to make a layup?

She did that twice and missed both times. Nared has no sense of time and score either. Several times this season she has taken a shot which should have been the last shot of the quarter way too early and it has cost us.

The fact remains we have no TRUE PG on this team. That was obvious yesterday. Without someone willing to step up as a floor general and leader, this team will continue to have ups and downs.

The out of bounds missed call late in the game yesterday was huge. It amazes me that fans, and no one media included except Maria has even mentioned it. Instead of being up 3 with the ball, you are now tied. With that one call your in-game strategy completely changes, as does the pressure. Yes I know we gave up too many offensive rebounds and jacked up too many shots, but if you watch the game, A&M was pushing and shoving all game, and very few fouls were called.

Regarding Holly, yes she has her flaws. In my opinion, she does not use timeouts enough. The lack of depth this year is on her. She should have cut Elzy loose before last season. I truly believe the tension and disagreement between them cost us in recruiting for 2016. We are paying the price for it now and it's hard to watch at times I think Holly doesn't get enough credit for turning the recruiting around. Signing the number 1 class, especially with four top 15 kids, according to several recruiting services is hard to do. Especially in this day and age. I know her assistants play a huge role in recruiting, but ultimately they all wanted to play for Holly. If you read any story about each of them, they all say it. She has followed it up with two strong recruits for 2018. I truly believe come November we will have another exceptional class.

Losing Cooper turned out to be a bigger blow than I thought. I guess I expected JR as the lone senior to step up and take ownership of this team. In my opinion, she has not done that which I find disappointing.

I will say, I was surprised, listening to Holly while mic'd during the Missouri game, the woman knows how to coach. She gave the team clear instructions and made good adjustments as needed. With the way people criticize her, I expected to hear nonsense and gibberish during timeouts.

I for one think the media and fans have been exceedingly hard on this team all year. They have played one of the toughest schedules in the country, have some bad losses, and some great wins. I will never understand how teams like Arizona State, Syracuse, and Kansas State stay ranked and Tennessee doesn't. Compare wins and losses, RPI, SOS, to me it just doesn't add up. JMO.

Lastly, I don't know how this season will end, but I am one fan who even though frustrated at times will hold on tight and hope this team makes a deep run in March.
Click to expand...
Coaches real job is to coach up the team during the week and months of practice so they do not have to coach that much ( in fact very little during the game) in a game because the players should know what to do in most all situations from learning in practice and executing what they learned thru rote in practice.There in lies the problem with Holly .The half court offense she runs is 40 years old against man defense and her offensive sets against a zone is non existent.She runs no plays for the star on the team ....her offense consists of the guards dribbling the ball outside the arc and staring down the post ,throwing it in there against a triple team for a turnover or bring out the post for a screen and by that time the shot clock has just about expired and panic sets in for someone to get up a shot before the shot clock horn goes off.
There should have to be very little coaching going on during a game .....only adjustments from time to time.She has demonstrated these last 5 years that she is not a leader ,not a coach ,not a teacher and that is reflected in her record and how the players play/execute .
 
#38
#38
Chris89128 said:
First and foremost I am a DIE-HARD Lady Vol basketball fan. With that said I have to get a few things off my chest.

Let me first start off by saying, I am not making excuses for the rollercoaster of a season this has been. We have won games we should not have on paper and lost ones we should not have as well.

Regarding yesterday's game:

We missed way too many layups, across the board. Russell missed at least 4 herself. I am trying my best to not call out individual players, but why does Jackson always seem to showboat when trying to make a layup?

She did that twice and missed both times. Nared has no sense of time and score either. Several times this season she has taken a shot which should have been the last shot of the quarter way too early and it has cost us.

The fact remains we have no TRUE PG on this team. That was obvious yesterday. Without someone willing to step up as a floor general and leader, this team will continue to have ups and downs.

The out of bounds missed call late in the game yesterday was huge. It amazes me that fans, and no one media included except Maria has even mentioned it. Instead of being up 3 with the ball, you are now tied. With that one call your in-game strategy completely changes, as does the pressure. Yes I know we gave up too many offensive rebounds and jacked up too many shots, but if you watch the game, A&M was pushing and shoving all game, and very few fouls were called.

Regarding Holly, yes she has her flaws. In my opinion, she does not use timeouts enough. The lack of depth this year is on her. She should have cut Elzy loose before last season. I truly believe the tension and disagreement between them cost us in recruiting for 2016. We are paying the price for it now and it's hard to watch at times I think Holly doesn't get enough credit for turning the recruiting around. Signing the number 1 class, especially with four top 15 kids, according to several recruiting services is hard to do. Especially in this day and age. I know her assistants play a huge role in recruiting, but ultimately they all wanted to play for Holly. If you read any story about each of them, they all say it. She has followed it up with two strong recruits for 2018. I truly believe come November we will have another exceptional class.

Losing Cooper turned out to be a bigger blow than I thought. I guess I expected JR as the lone senior to step up and take ownership of this team. In my opinion, she has not done that which I find disappointing.

I will say, I was surprised, listening to Holly while mic'd during the Missouri game, the woman knows how to coach. She gave the team clear instructions and made good adjustments as needed. With the way people criticize her, I expected to hear nonsense and gibberish during timeouts.

I for one think the media and fans have been exceedingly hard on this team all year. They have played one of the toughest schedules in the country, have some bad losses, and some great wins. I will never understand how teams like Arizona State, Syracuse, and Kansas State stay ranked and Tennessee doesn't. Compare wins and losses, RPI, SOS, to me it just doesn't add up. JMO.

Lastly, I don't know how this season will end, but I am one fan who even though frustrated at times will hold on tight and hope this team makes a deep run in March.
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If what you say is true, and Holly knows how to coach, o.k...
But she can't lead. If she could players would do what she says do. They don't or can't. That's on Holly and staff. If they don't, she can't lead. If they can't, she and staff can't teach. Either way, something has to change. She can recruit and bring in the best high school players out there, but if she can't lead them or teach them, well we see what happens.
 
#39
#39
The fact that our team does not k now to go for the last shot of a quarter with less than 30 seconds to go is very disturbing to me. This is a strong coaching error that hurt us in this game and at Ole Miss. The fact that we have Diamond Deshields taking the ball out on that last shot attempt is also very disturbing. Our leading scorer virtually taken out of the play. Our rebounding is a concern as teams have dominated us in several games in the offensive rebound category and Sunday was no different and a major reason they won.
 
#40
#40
Volfan2012 said:
The fact that our team does not k now to go for the last shot of a quarter with less than 30 seconds to go is very disturbing to me. This is a strong coaching error that hurt us in this game and at Ole Miss. The fact that we have Diamond Deshields taking the ball out on that last shot attempt is also very disturbing. Our leading scorer virtually taken out of the play. Our rebounding is a concern as teams have dominated us in several games in the offensive rebound category and Sunday was no different and a major reason they won.
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The inbounder is the most dangerous player on the court. Only she knows where she is giving the entry pass and she is coming from out of bounds, so she can enter the court on either side of her defender and spot-up...SO yes, DD inbounding is the right play.

Take away the half-dozen OR's we gave up in the final 4 minutes of "desperation mode-play" and we are even in OR's for the game.
 
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#41
#41
Coach Jumper said:
2017 Women's College Basketball Rankings and Polls for Week 15 - ESPN

I clicked the "complete rankings" link.. . After a second glance, yes, it is from the sixth,
but it does show the TAMU loss. What hasn't been done is the movement of this list itself.
So yes, you may be right.

I still think we will be #25 though...The team above us (Calif.) at #24 lost two games, while the team below us (WVA) lost one and won one. and the next team, TAMU, won two.

That said, Cal should drop below us, TAMU ahead of us and WVA will probably drop further down the rankings.
Click to expand...

I know that I'm right. The coaches poll is released on Tuesday afternoon, although the results update real time.

I'm going to guess that Tennessee will get leapfrogged by TAMU as well as another team in the receiving votes category, like Temple or Drake (who made the AP poll this week).
 
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#42
#42
Coach, I agree that DD taking the ball out is good strategy. In the FSU game, Romero took the ball out late in the game and ended up hitting a three to tie the game and send it into OT.This all happened with virtually seconds left on the clock.
 
#43
#43
Rixxx said:
Coach, I agree that DD taking the ball out is good strategy. In the FSU game, Romero took the ball out late in the game and ended up hitting a three to tie the game and send it into OT.This all happened with virtually seconds left on the clock.
Click to expand...

That was a horrible breakdown by Higgs of Texas. Everyone in the stadium knew that FSU was going to go for a three to tie, it would probably be taken by Romero, and Higgs hesitated to defend the paint against a two point shot and let the best three point shooter in the country get free long enough to get a shot off. Even the announcers called exactly what the play would be before it unfolded.
 
#44
#44
Amb3096 said:
That was a horrible breakdown by Higgs of Texas. Everyone in the stadium knew that FSU was going to go for a three to tie, it would probably be taken by Romero, and Higgs hesitated to defend the paint against a two point shot and let the best three point shooter in the country get free long enough to get a shot off. Even the announcers called exactly what the play would be before it unfolded.
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If you think back to when the LVs played at Texas...we did almost the same thing to them except on a sideline out-of-bounds play. Middleton was the inbounder, MR lifted for the pass, Middleton stepped inbounds for the wing three.
 
#45
#45
The LVs also have a baseline OOB play where DD pitches in to MR at a post extended location and then DD steps in and uses a hand-off screen from MR for the mid-range jumper.
 
#46
#46
Coach Jumper said:
The inbounder is the most dangerous player on the court. Only she knows where she is giving the entry pass and she is coming from out of bounds, so she can enter the court on either side of her defender and spot-up...SO yes, DD inbounding is the right play.

Take away the half-dozen OR's we gave up in the final 4 minutes of "desperation mode-play" and we are even in OR's for the game.
Click to expand...


That sounds great with five or more seconds left but with two seconds left where you have a catch and shoot I want her to be one of the options to shoot. She did make a good pass to Mercedes and she got up a decent shot but the game had been lost on what was a terrible last defensive possession where we swallowed two fouls and couldn't get a rebound.
 
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#47
#47
Volfan2012 said:
That sounds great with five or more seconds left but with two seconds left where you have a catch and shoot I want her to be one of the options to shoot. She did make a good pass to Mercedes and she got up a decent shot but the game had been lost on what was a terrible last defensive possession where we swallowed two fouls and couldn't get a rebound.
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With a 6'6" post on the floor, I lob all day to my post and teach her receive the ball at its highest point, KEEP it high, and bounce 2 inches in the air and shoot over these 6'1" defenders...DD doesn't need to touch it, MR is closer.

Lob, to a touch-shot... That was easy
 
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#49
#49
Benionsopinion said:
And,in the second quarter,Kortney was put in the game and lasted only until she committed a foul. She was very unhappy coming out of the game. Haven't seen this before and hope it doesn't portend a division on the team. Maybe there is an undercurrent that we are not aware of.
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that has to hurt her confidence a lot,I'd like em to run some more zone defense when she is in and feed her the ball 3 or 4 times before jerking her out

I may be wrong,but from her better games,she seems to do better if they let her get in the game and no offensive pressure (as far as shooting) run a few plays and then feed her the ball

what do you think coach ? :)
 
#50
#50
I sit and watch the 1hr-pre-game happenings intently. This is where I can best assess a player's strengths and flaws. Though I do not feel they are an indication of how the game is going to go, the pre-game drills are a very accurate way of telling what frame of mind the players are in. ((Reason: In warmups players are doing familiar things so their respective personalities come out. They are "at ease" in this environment, , , , In game, your opposition often controls your environment. Your personna is dictated by the moment)).

I say that to say this. During those drills and skills sets, Kortney leaves those drills sweating. She is ALL there. I would find a way to reward such dedication and drive.

I would teach Kortney an elbow jumper/reverse-pivot-one dribble-hard-drive, teach her to pass and use her like a Karl Malone. A Karl Malone who can also shoot a 3!!
 
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