About Our Zone Defense

#52
#52
jjay2518 said:
You can try and belittle people's opinions, but you're wrong. A match-up zone doesn't work in all situations. I don't know if you watched the Louisville - Indiana game tonight, but in the post game interview Rick Pitino said that Indiana was spreading them out so much they had to go to straight man. That's who Tyndall had said multiple times our match up zone is modeled after, and Pitino himself readily admits he had to pay man instead in certain situations. Our match-up zone has been better than expected this early in the year, but that doesn't mean it's the best choice every second of every game.
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OK, here it is spelled out by the man himself! Watch for it!
And when they do that, Tyndall said they’ll be in one of the nation’s more unique defenses. “I never want to sound like I’ve invented anything here, but it’s a very unique zone,” Tyndall said. “The basis of it is Coach Pitino’s zone at Louisville. I had a guy at Morehead State from Louisville on my staff, and it started there. And then we’ve kind of tweaked some things over the years.” Obviously Tyndall didn’t have much interest in being overly specific, but he unveiled one of the most important tweaks in his zone — it’s not just a zone. Sometimes, depending on the situation, it’s a man-to-man. “It’s not totally a zone,” Tyndall said. “When the ball goes to the high post, we matchup and go man-to-man for the rest of the possession. It’s very unique. It’s different.
 
#53
#53
jjay2518 said:
You can try and belittle people's opinions, but you're wrong. A match-up zone doesn't work in all situations. I don't know if you watched the Louisville - Indiana game tonight, but in the post game interview Rick Pitino said that Indiana was spreading them out so much they had to go to straight man.

That's who Tyndall had said multiple times our match up zone is modeled after, and Pitino himself readily admits he had to pay man instead in certain situations.

Our match-up zone has been better than expected this early in the year, but that doesn't mean it's the best choice every second of every game.
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Good point and to further this - go back and look at video of UK vs UL from the past few years. Pitino hasn't stayed in the matchup more than in spurts. The Cards have played man for better than 75% of the time against UK.
 
#55
#55
k-town_king said:
That's a match up zone SD.
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Then why does Coach T say "It's very unique. It's different." You can call it what you like. He is the "only" one running the Tyndall defense. Let's just call it that and let it go. It does seem to baffle the teams they play
and let this team beat teams with more talent.
 
#56
#56
SeniorDrill said:
Then why does Coach T say "It's very unique. It's different." You can call it what you like. He is the "only" one running the Tyndall defense. Let's just call it that and let it go. It does seem to baffle the teams they play
and let this team beat teams with more talent.
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He's not THE only one
 
#58
#58
SeniorDrill said:
What other team runs the Tyndall defense? Oh, by the way he just said in his interview yesterday that they ran a few possessions of man-to-man against K-State.
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I thought I heard that,tried looking for the game but couldn't find it,and I'm not sure what tema runs it but I'm sure he's not the only one,I saw Louisville the other night an saw a lot of what we do but as far as just like his I'm sure somebody else does
 
#59
#59
It's a matchup zone that stresses man to man principles. It is similar to help side man. This type of defense usually works very well in hs where you have limited defense players and the other team has limited outside scorers...it doesn't work well on the college level for any extended length of time. You won't beat UK with it...
 
#60
#60
Cletus P Fulmer said:
It's a matchup zone that stresses man to man principles. It is similar to help side man. This type of defense usually works very well in hs where you have limited defense players and the other team has limited outside scorers...it doesn't work well on the college level for any extended length of time. You won't beat UK with it...
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Oh yeah KY is shooting 27% from 3 which has been our only Achille's heel in our first 6 games.
 
#61
#61
SeniorDrill said:
Oh yeah KY is shooting 27% from 3 which has been our only Achille's heel in our first 6 games.
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Only? You realize we are ranked in the 300s in defensive rebounds per game? Not to mention kentuckys biggest strength is their size inside which will pound us on the offensive glass. It's pretty hard to rebound out of a zone. Even more difficult when a team is running multiple athletic 7 footers and 6'10 guys at you.
 
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#62
#62
CAVol said:
Only? You realize we are ranked in the 300s in defensive rebounds per game? Not to mention kentuckys biggest strength is their size inside which will pound us on the offensive glass. It's pretty hard to rebound out of a zone. Even more difficult when a team is running multiple athletic 7 footers and 6'10 guys at you.
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Actually if you teach this type of zone the right way there are rebounding responsibilities assigned but most zones are still very weak in that area.
 
#63
#63
SeniorDrill said:
What other team runs the Tyndall defense? Oh, by the way he just said in his interview yesterday that they ran a few possessions of man-to-man against K-State.
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I havent seen any other teams that runs the exact same defense as ours. A couple teams run similar defenses, but not identical to ours.
 
#65
#65
SeniorDrill said:
Actually, we are averaging 34.2 rebounds per game and our opponents 34.3, identical.
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Only because we offensive rebound so well. We are terrible at defensive rebounding. That's a big problem and I'm shocked you wont acknowledge it.

EDIT: Just so you know I'm not pulling that out of thin air. We are averaging 19.7 defensive rebounds per game which is good for #337 in the nation. Compared to 14.5 offensive rebounds per game which is good for #22 in the nation.
 
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#66
#66
CAVol said:
Only because we offensive rebound so well. We are terrible at defensive rebounding. That's a big problem and I'm shocked you wont acknowledge it.
EDIT: Just so you know I'm not pulling that out of thin air. We are averaging 19.7 defensive rebounds per game which is good for #337 in the nation. Compared to 14.5 offensive rebounds per game which is good for #22 in the nation.
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I did not say it was not a problem. Coach T has said the same. We are a work in progress and we are averaging as many total rebounds as our opponents in our first six games. The system works given time. In his two seasons at Southern Mississippi he finished 27-10 and 29-7. The first season rebounding stats were ORB SM-471, opp-393 and DRB SM-851-724. The second season stats were ORB SM-457-341 and DRB SM-829, opp-713.
 
#67
#67
SeniorDrill said:
I did not say it was not a problem.
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SeniorDrill said:
Oh yeah KY is shooting 27% from 3 which has been our only Achille's heel in our first 6 games.
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Maybe you didn't outright say it but you certainly inferred that three point shooting was our only problem.

Defensive rebounding is a huge problem and one that I don't think can just be fixed this year. Gonna need another year in the weight room for our freshman post to be able to compete on a nightly basis with college big guys or the Kentucky big guys. Our offensive rebounding numbers make it seem like we are keeping up with people on the glass. Reality is every time a shot goes up we allow an offensive rebound ~40% of the time. That's not good at all.

Source: Tennessee Statsheet
The defense column is what we allow our opponents to do.
 
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#68
#68
SeniorDrill said:
I did not say it was not a problem. Coach T has said the same. We are a work in progress and we are averaging as many total rebounds as our opponents in our first six games. The system works given time. In his two seasons at Southern Mississippi he finished 27-10 and 29-7. The first season rebounding stats were ORB SM-471, opp-393 and DRB SM-851-724. The second season stats were ORB SM-457-341 and DRB SM-829, opp-713.
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Bottom line is while these type of zones can be beneficial and help even the odds they are much less effective from a rebounding standpoint than man to man...and any college coach including CDT will tell you that...
 
#69
#69
Cletus P Fulmer said:
Bottom line is while these type of zones can be beneficial and help even the odds they are much less effective from a rebounding standpoint than man to man...and any college coach including CDT will tell you that...
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This. But I believe defensive rebounding would improve if the guards would become more assertive in recognizing the long rebounds. Teams are going to shoot a lot of threes against our zone, so giving up the long rebounds are hurting as much as our front court size. Jmo
 
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#70
#70
CAVol said:
Maybe you didn't outright say it but you certainly inferred that three point shooting was our only problem.

Defensive rebounding is a huge problem and one that I don't think can just be fixed this year. Gonna need another year in the weight room for our freshman post to be able to compete on a nightly basis with college big guys or the Kentucky big guys. Our offensive rebounding numbers make it seem like we are keeping up with people on the glass. Reality is every time a shot goes up we allow an offensive rebound ~40% of the time. That's not good at all.

Source: Tennessee Statsheet
The defense column is what we allow our opponents to do.
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I've made the same argument that our ability to rebound on the offensive end skews our total rebounding numbers to look more favorable than they really are. Our defensive rebounding is pathetic.
 
#71
#71
cncchris33 said:
I've made the same argument that our ability to rebound on the offensive end skews our total rebounding numbers to look more favorable than they really are. Our defensive rebounding is pathetic.
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Exactly. It's really, really bad.
 
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