About Our Zone Defense

#26
#26
volbeast33 said:
It does seem to be really effective....Butler scares me bc they seem really efficient......Im curious if the zone will be as effective with teams that we see a second time during this season.
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I think the defense totally morphs from game to game
depending on what the opposing offense does. I think it shows how brilliant a basketball mind Coach T has. He has combined zone and man-to-man into a hybrid defense to which the opponent has a hard time adjusting. It is so complex that it takes a lot of time for even the old guys to learn. Not to say seeing it a second time doesn't help but a team seeing it the first time is in for a treat. First year at USM Tyndall was 27-10, 12-4 conference and second year, 29-7, 13-3 conference.
 
#27
#27
volbeast33 said:
It does seem to be really effective....Butler scares me bc they seem really efficient......Im curious if the zone will be as effective with teams that we see a second time during this season.
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Butler also scares me because any team that shoots well from outside should scare us. This zone is very susceptible to accurate outside shooters getting open looks.
 
#28
#28
cncchris33 said:
Butler also scares me because any team that shoots well from outside should scare us. This zone is very susceptible to accurate outside shooters getting open looks.
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I actually think we will have success against Butler if we can key on Dunham. They only have 3 guys (Dunham, Martin and Barlow) that shoot >30% that get significant minutes. They have one great shooter and a few average to below average 3 point shooters.

Source: Butler Individual Stats
 
#29
#29
calban said:
Gets old don't it SD. Wish we could put all this personal crap behind us and get back to discussing basketball.
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:lolabove::lolabove: Can't we all just get along...down the road to something better. I'm only human and all out of excuses. I come on here to actually get away from the crap. :thud:

GO VOLS!
 
#30
#30
CAVol said:
I actually think we will have success against Butler if we can key on Dunham. They only have 3 guys that shoot >30% that get significant minutes. They have one great shooter and a few average to below average 3 point shooters.

Source: Butler Individual Stats
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The issue is that in almost every single game against quality competition this year, we have allowed one single player to blow us up from outside. Kansas being the lone exception because they beat us around inside.

KSU's Marcus Foster: 23 pts, 7-14 from 3
MU's Duane Wilson: 30 pts, 5-9 from 3
VCU's Melvin Johnson: 23 pts, 5-11 from 3

Kellen Dunham is licking his chops as a 48% 3-point shooter. Butler is just disciplined enough to get him the ball in the soft spots of our zone for open looks. I'd really like to see JRich shadow him in this matchup in a box-and-one setup. Someone else would have to take over PG duties in that scenario though. No way can he shadow a guy defensively and facilitate the entire offense for 35 minutes.
 
#31
#31
iKrager said:
Personal? Its not personal, any person who posts a direct quote and no discussion is going to get this response. You posted a direct quote, again, without posting any type of discussion and I just don't know how anyone is supposed to respond honestly. It just doesnt make a lot of sense to start a thread with just a lone quote.
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Wait a minute. I didn't read that in the rule book. You must have your own exclusive copy. :)

GO VOLS!
 
#33
#33
cncchris33 said:
The issue is that in almost every single game against quality competition this year, we have allowed one single player to blow us up from outside. Kansas being the lone exception because they beat us around inside.

KSU's Marcus Foster: 23 pts, 7-14 from 3
MU's Duane Wilson: 30 pts, 5-9 from 3
VCU's Melvin Johnson: 23 pts, 5-11 from 3

Kellen Dunham is licking his chops as a 48% 3-point shooter. Butler is just disciplined enough to get him the ball in the soft spots of our zone for open looks. I'd really like to see JRich shadow him in this matchup in a box-and-one setup. Someone else would have to take over PG duties in that scenario though. No way can he shadow a guy defensively and facilitate the entire offense for 35 minutes.
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We won't see a box and one imo. We're just gonna have to locate him at all times. We do always seem to let one guy go off which is why I said "if" we key on him I think we will be okay. Big if, though.
 
#34
#34
CAVol said:
We won't see a box and one imo. We're just gonna have to locate him at all times. We do always seem to let one guy go off which is why I said "if" we key on him I think we will be okay. Big if, though.
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They aren't that big so I say screw it and we try a man to man with Richardson locking down Dunham
 
#36
#36
Well, thanks to all of you for the defense of the OP that I thought provided a unique perspective on our defense. SeniorDrill appreciates it. Imagine how good it may be when we get to SEC play with the caliber of the competition we are playing now.
 
#37
#37
Dallasbowlin said:
They aren't that big so I say screw it and we try a man to man with Richardson locking down Dunham
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We won't. Tyndall plays zone. When I met him he said he's played 2 possessions of man in his entire career. If we play man that would be going way against the grain.
 
#38
#38
CAVol said:
We won't. Tyndall plays zone. When I met him he said he's played 2 possessions of man in his entire career. If we play man that would be going way against the grain.
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I know we won't but I think it would throw em off,would be Interesting to see that on tape
 
#39
#39
CAVol said:
We won't see a box and one imo.
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Yeah, I know it will never happen. Just wishful thinking on my part. And like I said, JRich can't do it AND play PG for an entire game. Too much for one person even if we did consider it.
 
#43
#43
cncchris33 said:
Yeah, I know it will never happen. Just wishful thinking on my part. And like I said, JRich can't do it AND play PG for an entire game. Too much for one person even if we did consider it.
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Why do you think that is? Josh is the best man-to-man defender in the country, why would we not use his talents like that? This may or may not be a good analogy but thats like having a 40% 3pt shooter who isn't allowed to shoot.

Also, thank you Freak.
 
#44
#44
iKrager said:
Why do you think that is? Josh is the best man-to-man defender in the country, why would we not use his talents like that? This may or may not be a good analogy but thats like having a 40% 3pt shooter who isn't allowed to shoot.

Also, thank you Freak.
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Bc there is way more to a good man to man defense than one lock down defender and our coach doesn't feel comfortable with it.
 
#45
#45
iKrager said:
Why do you think that is? Josh is the best man-to-man defender in the country, why would we not use his talents like that? This may or may not be a good analogy but thats like having a 40% 3pt shooter who isn't allowed to shoot.

Also, thank you Freak.
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Like beast said, Tyndall apparently just isn't comfortable with any type of man defense. I think CAVol said in this thread that CDT has played man twice in his career.

Your analogy seems fitting, but its one fallacy is that playing any sort of man defense is a total schematic change of CDT's defensive philosophy.

I'm not saying that I agree with the stubbornness of relying strictly on a zone defensive philosophy. Personally, I would prefer the flexibility of being able to use either one effectively depending on matchups. Zo's early unwillingness to play any zone was one of my criticisms of him because it was directly costing us games. CDT's stubborn approach to a zone defense hasn't, IMO, directly cost us any games yet outside of allowing people to freely shoot from outside at times. Those are difficult shots, even if uncontested sometimes. I'd rather be giving up looks from there than getting beat backdoor for open layups.
 
#46
#46
How many times does it have to be said that Coach T's defense is not a zone and not a man-to-man? It is an elaborate hybrid of the two which confuses the opposing team into not knowing if you are playing zone or man-to-man. He has said that on numerous occasions. Not really surprised that some don't seem to be able to pick up on the man part.
 
#47
#47
SeniorDrill said:
How many times does it have to be said that Coach T's defense is not a zone and not a man-to-man? It is an elaborate hybrid of the two which confuses the opposing team into not knowing if you are playing zone or man-to-man. He has said that on numerous occasions. Not really surprised that some don't seem to be able to pick up on the man part.
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It's a matchup zone with man principles. It's still a zone though.
 
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#48
#48
SeniorDrill said:
How many times does it have to be said that Coach T's defense is not a zone and not a man-to-man? It is an elaborate hybrid of the two which confuses the opposing team into not knowing if you are playing zone or man-to-man. He has said that on numerous occasions. Not really surprised that some don't seem to be able to pick up on the man part.
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So what are you saying? lol
 
#50
#50
SeniorDrill said:
How many times does it have to be said that Coach T's defense is not a zone and not a man-to-man? It is an elaborate hybrid of the two which confuses the opposing team into not knowing if you are playing zone or man-to-man. He has said that on numerous occasions. Not really surprised that some don't seem to be able to pick up on the man part.
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You can try and belittle people's opinions, but you're wrong. A match-up zone doesn't work in all situations. I don't know if you watched the Louisville - Indiana game tonight, but in the post game interview Rick Pitino said that Indiana was spreading them out so much they had to go to straight man.

That's who Tyndall had said multiple times our match up zone is modeled after, and Pitino himself readily admits he had to pay man instead in certain situations.

Our match-up zone has been better than expected this early in the year, but that doesn't mean it's the best choice every second of every game.
 
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