A boy named Trayvon Martin is shot and killed by neighborhood watch goon

#26
#26
The Ron Mexico said:
I'm struggling to think of a single situation where this could possibly be self defense. Based on the facts that have been presented so far, Mr Zimmerman belongs in prison. For a very long time.
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There is something else, Zimmerman a son of someone "important"?

Zimmerman a home owner?
 
#28
#28
Wts***

If things are as they appear, this is murder. If this is not murder, everyone should be free to kill.
 
#29
#29
You need to understand a few things about the background on this, which are not included in the story that OP has posted.

First, when police got there, Zimmerman was bleeding from his own wounds.

Second, the investigators interviewed these witnesses, some of who originally said they heard Zimmerman yelling for help. not the teen. And only after the uproar and the arrival in town of some classic leaders, have these folks now changed their stories to say that it was the teen yelling for help, not Zimmerman. Very odd.

Zimmerman should not have gotten out of the car to confront the teen, I'd agree with that. And he likely would have a huge problem because of that in a civil case. But Florida has a stand your ground law, and if 1) he confronted the teen (even when he shouldn't) and was attacked by the teen; and 2) if it is Zimmerman yelling for help trying to get away from the teen and resorts to a gun in self defense, then I can see the quandry that the police are in here in investigating the case.

What people don't understand is that the police in a case like this just investigate then turn it over to the prosecutor for a decision on whether to pursue criminal charges. Under Florida law, they cannot make an arrest without probable cause and the fact is that the physical evidence does not co0ntradict Zimmerman's claim of self defense. Indeed, in many respects it supports it. And so, the police are not going to arrest in this situation --- instead they will let the prosecutor decide whether to bring charges.

Also, I'd point out that the police have themselves asked the DOJ to come in and look at their investigation. This is a very difficult situation for the police -- let's not jump to any unwarranted conclusions.
 
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#30
#30
One story I read said that a witness told the police they heard Martin crying/yelling for help. The witness said the police corrected them and told them they had heard Zimmerman calling for help. I saw in one story where it was reported that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. Would the police have taken pictures of this?

I don't understand the intent in this case of the stand your ground law. So if someone goes after another person for whatever reason, confronts them/possibly provoking them and then kills them, it could be qualified as self defense? Serious question.
 
#32
#32
NEOCON said:
If it went down the way you make it seem it was murder.

sadly, we may never really know if it was though.
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If? A grown ass man with a gun killed a
defenseless teenage kid minding his own
damn business. This cat took his "neighborhood watch job" way too serious. He's a rent-a-cop thinking he's Matt Dillon!! If? Child please!! I heard the tape, that's murder home boy!!
 
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#33
#33
Slydell said:
One story I read said that a witness told the police they heard Martin crying/yelling for help. The witness said the police corrected them and told them they had heard Zimmerman calling for help. I saw in one story where it was reported that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. Would the police have taken pictures of this?

I don't understand the intent in this case of the stand your ground law. So if someone goes after another person for whatever reason, confronts them/possibly provoking them and then kills them, it could be qualified as self defense? Serious question.
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The second paragraph.........
 
#34
#34
rockytop9808 said:
An armed man got out of a vehicle and killed a teenager holding a bag of candy.

Sounds like murder.
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Agree, even if the kid took a swing at this bozo, a man doesn't shoot a kid in this situation (or almost any situation, imo.)
 
#35
#35
if zimmerman was bleeding out of the back of his head, sounds like he was getting his brains beat out, so self defense may not be out of line
 
#38
#38
Slydell said:
One story I read said that a witness told the police they heard Martin crying/yelling for help. The witness said the police corrected them and told them they had heard Zimmerman calling for help. I saw in one story where it was reported that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. Would the police have taken pictures of this?

I don't understand the intent in this case of the stand your ground law. So if someone goes after another person for whatever reason, confronts them/possibly provoking them and then kills them, it could be qualified as self defense? Serious question.
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Regarding your first points, you are correct. There will be documentation of the injuries to Zimmerman. Also, the interview with the witness who has arguably changed her story, will have been taped, and so that will all be turned over to the prosecutors.

The reason it has not been made public is that the investigation is ongoing.

The reason that the 911 calls were released is because the attorney for the family went on tv and claimed that people within the Sanford police department were calling her and secretly telling her that they supported charges against Zimmerman.

The reality is that the audiotapes are chilling, but they aren't going to be the key since no one else saw it. The key will be the physical evidence at the scene, plus what people ORIGINALLY said -- not after they had a chance at minor celebrity status if they claim it happened differently, now, after the controversy erupts.

The prosecutor will charge him only if they think he is guilty and they think they can convict. Based on what has come out so far, the people now claiming to be able to support charges reportedly gave significantly different statements during the investigation.

That makes you wonder....

(PS, its clear Zimmerman is a vigilante type. Very dangerous. Will be sued and will probably lose. But that is not the same thing as contemplating some kind of criminal charge, which is very different.)
 
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#40
#40
Is there an open carry law in Florida?

Did Zimmerman have peace officer/security officer license to have a weapon?
 
#41
#41
vol_in_il said:
if zimmerman was bleeding out of the back of his head, sounds like he was getting his brains beat out, so self defense may not be out of line
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What did he beat him with? Damn a bag of skittles must really do some damage.... If anything this clown provoked the kid, the kid felt threatened himself and went defensive mode and took a swing. Then the coward pulled a pistol out....
 
#42
#42
I don't know how u can claim self defense when you provoked the person.

And this guy prob thinks he is a hardass and seems like he was getting beat up.
 
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#43
#43
YorkVol said:
Agree, even if the kid took a swing at this bozo, a man doesn't shoot a kid in this situation (or almost any situation, imo.)
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That's interesting, a few years ago where I was living a 16 year old broke into a man's house and the man shot and killed him. As far as I know he was unarmed. No one questioned that he had a right to shoot, but I don't think I could have done it. Kill a boy over that.
 
#44
#44
WA_Vol said:
That's interesting, a few years ago where I was living a 16 year old broke into a man's house and the man shot and killed him. As far as I know he was unarmed. No one questioned that he had a right to shoot, but I don't think I could have done it. Kill a boy over that.
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I don't understand the shoot to kill. Just shoot to injure.
 
#45
#45
Will there be enough evidence to force a plea bargain or a trial? A Civil case appears to be a certainty.
 
#46
#46
WA_Vol said:
That's interesting, a few years ago where I was living a 16 year old broke into a man's house and the man shot and killed him. As far as I know he was unarmed. No one questioned that he had a right to shoot, but I don't think I could have done it. Kill a boy over that.
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Vols520 said:
I don't understand the shoot to kill. Just shoot to injure.
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That answer varies related to whether you or your wife and/or children's safety is in jeopardy. All intruders don't need to be mercked, but it has been quite a few deadly home invasions and who wants to be the next victim on The First 48? --- This case however is totally different. I say it is a 2nd Degree Murder. Plain and simple.
 
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#47
#47
Vols520 said:
I don't understand the shoot to kill. Just shoot to injure.
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wounding just leads to more lawsuits, a dead man tells no tells...zimmermann will have a better defense since he killed him. the police only has his side of the story, and conflicting witness accounts
 
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#48
#48
Somebody breaking in your house is different than someone walking down the street.
 
#50
#50
vollygirl said:
Somebody breaking in your house is different than someone walking down the street.
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Very true. The party that initiated contact (confrontationally) ended up using lethal force on an unarmed person. "Stand your ground" or not that scenario does not play well.

LG made some good points about how this is a bit more complicated than it might seem at first blush from a criminal prosecution standpoint. I would expect dude to get eviscerated in civil court on whatever works in FL along the lines of "wrongful death". (at least based on what appears to be the evidence at this time)
 
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