Fulmer debate extravaganza (merged)

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#11,405
#11,405
sjrobert said:
Wikipedia, which I used, shows PF's record as 9-4 in 2006, which if correct, means you had better check your math. That works out to .692 and 2007 shows 10-4 which is .714, as you stated, but removing the last four seasons from the overall all-time record to go back to PF and the won-loss record when he left, it is 776-327 (excluding ties). Including the ties would lower the percentage a bit, but still it is close to PF's 9 and 10 win seasons, which is close to the all-time winning percentage. or an average UT season over time, ie. an average coaching job. How do you calculate that going from .672, PF's firing, to .684 is going down? Take out the games played since PF's termination before calculating the percentage. The Wikipedia calculation of .684 is current, and includes ties
as well as the games played since PF left.
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Do you not read everything in a post, or just what you want? I edited my comment in there. I wrote in there the number of wins divided by total games. For one, I could not for the life of me figure out how ties were calculated in. Two, I think it is crap to add ties into a win percentage, as it is a losing. So if you asked me what the losing percentage was, I would write that it was total losses divided by total games.
 
#11,406
#11,406
sjrobert said:
based on UT's all-time winning percentage.
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The "all-time winning percentage" is a useless stat, since we don't live in an age of all-white football anymore. Measuring the pre-Fulmer and post-Fulmer era of fully integrated SEC rosters (since 1973) produces the following averages in SEC win rates:

% Wins in SEC Play 1973-2011 Without Fulmer as OC/HC
Battle (73-76): 10-13-1 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)
Majors (77-88): 38-33-2 (3 winning seasons in SEC play)
Kiffin (09): 4-4 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)
Dooley (10-12): 5-19 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)

So prior to Fulmer as OC or HC and since his firing, the odds of a UT coach in the integrated SEC having a winning season in the SEC was less than one-in-five. Compare that to Fulmer, who had winning seasons in SEC play in every season but 2.
 
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#11,407
#11,407
VegasVol said:
The "all-time winning percentage" is a useless stat, since we don't live in an age of all-white football anymore. Measuring the pre-Fulmer and post-Fulmer era of fully integrated SEC rosters (since 1973) produces the following averages in SEC win rates:

% Wins in SEC Play 1973-2011 Without Fulmer as OC/HC
Battle (73-76): 10-13-1 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)
Majors (77-88): 38-33-2 (3 winning seasons in SEC play)
Kiffin (09): 4-4 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)
Dooley (10-12): 5-19 (0 winning seasons in SEC play)

So prior to Fulmer as OC or HC and since his firing, the odds of a UT coach in the integrated SEC having a winning season in the SEC was less than one-in-five. Compare that to Fulmer, who had winning seasons in SEC play in every season but 2.
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Right, right, and how many colleges or organizations keep such stats. NCAA? SEC? Big 11? Only a Fulmerite would come up with such meaningless stats. Just overlook history. And all the Bowls keep such stats don't they?
 
#11,408
#11,408
whobethis16 said:
Do you not read everything in a post, or just what you want? I edited my comment in there. I wrote in there the number of wins divided by total games. For one, I could not for the life of me figure out how ties were calculated in. Two, I think it is crap to add ties into a win percentage, as it is a losing. So if you asked me what the losing percentage was, I would write that it was total losses divided by total games.
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My friend, your calculations are incorrect. Take the 799 wins and subtract 23 wins for the post PF era. That gives 776 wins. Now subtract 27 losses for the same time and you have 327. There are 53 ties so multiply the ties times .5 for 1/2 win. That comes to 26.5. Add the 26.5 wins to 776 and you have 802.5. Now take the 327 losses and add back 26.5 losses, the 1/2 loss, to the 327 and you have 353.5 losses. That accounts for the 53 ties. Add the losses and victories together to get the total games and it comes to 1156. Now divide the 802.5 wins by the 1156 games and the all-time winning percentage when PF was fired is .694. As I said, his last 9 win and 10 win seasons were right at the all-time average, 9 wins slightly below and 10 wins slightly above average.
 
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#11,410
#11,410
sjrobert said:
Right, right, and how many colleges or organizations keep such stats. NCAA? SEC? Big 11? Only a Fulmerite would come up with such meaningless stats. Just overlook history. And all the Bowls keep such stats don't they?
Click to expand...

That was the most pertinent set of data I've seen in all 11,000 posts in this thread!

And, the truest reflection of those of us old enough to remember the whole era.

Face it, Katherine Webb followers, Fulmer had one real losing season, and we fired him to hire the coaching staff at the University of Cincinnati at the third time of asking.
 
#11,417
#11,417
Is Fulmer a HOF coach? Yes! Did he build UT into a premier program? No-Majors did. Was he the coach during an exciting time? Yes! Is he what Saban is to Alabama, Spurrior n Mayer to Florida, Paterno was to Penn State, the coach at K-State etc? No! Fulmer ranks with all those one and done type coaches over the years... Like the NC coach from 81 Clemson, 91 Washington or Washington State etc.. You Fulmerites like 16 need to take a reality check. You guys are in a major minority on viewing Fulmer as a deity! He will never have a statue or building named after him! He's not a Neyland or a great(est) type coach!
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#11,418
#11,418
knoxvols1 said:
Is Fulmer a HOF coach? Yes! Did he build UT into a premier program? No-Majors did. Was he the coach during an exciting time? Yes! Is he what Saban is to Alabama, Spurrior n Mayer to Florida, Paterno was to Penn State, the coach at K-State etc? No! Fulmer ranks with all those one and done type coaches over the years... Like the NC coach from 81 Clemson, 91 Washington or Washington State etc.. You Fulmerites like 16 need to take a reality check. You guys are in a major minority on viewing Fulmer as a deity! He will never have a statue or building named after him! He's not a Neyland or a great(est) type coach!
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A MAJOR minority????
 
#11,422
#11,422
knoxvols1 said:
Is Fulmer a HOF coach? Yes! Did he build UT into a premier program? No-Majors did. Was he the coach during an exciting time? Yes! Is he what Saban is to Alabama, Spurrior n Mayer to Florida, Paterno was to Penn State, the coach at K-State etc? No! Fulmer ranks with all those one and done type coaches over the years... Like the NC coach from 81 Clemson, 91 Washington or Washington State etc.. You Fulmerites like 16 need to take a reality check. You guys are in a major minority on viewing Fulmer as a deity! He will never have a statue or building named after him! He's not a Neyland or a great(est) type coach!
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Calm down Johnny, we appreciate you too.

No one is proclaiming him a deity. Speaking for myself, a so called "Fulmerite" as you you would have it, I was and still am a fan of this man. Was he perfect, heck no, far from it. The fact remains, I am 46 years old, and he is the best coach UT has had in my lifetime.

It can't be denied. He spent his playing days, coaching days, practically his much of his life at Tennessee. That's what we "Fulmerites", can't understand is the constant bashing of him. Yeah, he went down hill towards the end, I'll admit that. But, save Butch Jones, the two successors that have been hired after CPF couldnt carry Phil's jock and YOU know it.

Like I've said IMO, it may have been time, and probably was, but it was handled terribly wrong, and we've been paying for it ever since. The man was treated like garbage instead of a HOF coach. I know, I know, he received millions in the buyout, you would have given it back.

If you were told right now, Butch is going to win 75% of his games a couple SEC's and a NC, would you take it?
 
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#11,423
#11,423
Yes.. I would take it right now. I think that Fulmer would be more favored and better liked by all those in Volnation and it would have been handled better if he would have voluntarily retired like Lloyd Carr did. But he didn't and his hand was forced thus the negative sentiment set in.
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