Barnhart: Vols on right track says Dooley

#353
#353
emainvol said:
OHHHHHHH SNAP, you got me bro!

So tell me more about how I was talking about Alabama, oh wise one.
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I think you may have been talking about Saban at MSU. It was referenced a couple of pages prior. I assumed you were talking about Alabama's probation and academic issues that you referenced.
 
#354
#354
Spartacavolus said:
I think you may have been talking about Saban at MSU. It was referenced a couple of pages prior. I assumed you were talking about Alabama's probation and academic issues that you referenced.
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You were wrong and very slow. Have a nice rest of the day.
 
#356
#356
Spartacavolus said:
Yep. I was wrong about that point.

Slow? Not really. Realized it a couple of pages ago, but decided to mess with you and your anger a little.
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Oh you clever little man. I bet you have been plotting this for weeks. You have bested me, you sly fox. Perhaps you can teach me your ways, as I wish to outwit my opponents. I can only hope that one day I can display half the cunning you showed when you deftly realized it a couple of pages ago but decided to mess with me and my anger a little.
 
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#358
#358
Let me ask a stupid question . . . What difference does it make really whose situation sucked worse? Everybody knows the rubber meets the road for any hire in years 3and 4 anyway.
 
#359
#359
GAVol said:
Let me ask a stupid question . . . What difference does it make really whose situation sucked worse? Everybody knows the rubber meets the road for any hire in years 3and 4 anyway.
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It doesnt, but I like arguing, especially against such esteemed opponents as Spart. I also think Dooley sucks
 
#366
#366
GAVol said:
Let me ask a stupid question . . . What difference does it make really whose situation sucked worse? Everybody knows the rubber meets the road for any hire in years 3and 4 anyway.
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Lol, we've argued this tangent so far away from the original point that people don't even remember it.

The original point was that Saban's resume after 2 years at MSU looks a lot like Dooley's. MSU would have felt stupid if they had fired the guy who went on to be best coach in college football because he had 2 bad seasons.

Counter point was that MSU was in a lot of turmoil.

Counter to the counter point was that it wasn't comparable because Dooley's situation was worse.

I believe we've established that, with a little generosity from both sides, the two situations were very similar.

I took that to mean that the original point, that it's still too early to tell with Dooley had some validity.
 
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#367
#367
tvolsfan said:
Saban won 9 his first year at Toledo, won the SEC his second year at LSU, and went 12-0 in the regular season his second season as Bama. In his 16 years as a college coach, he has never finished with a losing record. Are people really trying to compare him to a coach that has 1 winning season and 4 losing seasons? Are people really trying to compare Tennessee's football program to that of Michigan State?
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No. I think they are simply pointing out that the first coach inherited much better situations than the second.

There is no question that Saban can recruit and coach. There is also no question that his first few years at MSU when you factor in conference and competition were no more impressive than Dooley's first two years at UT.

That said... there is still ALOT of question as to whether Dooley can coach. The point is that we can't compare them in large measure because Dooley hasn't had comparable circumstances.

We know what Saban can do.

We do not know yet what Dooley can do. Neither those who say he will or has succeeded nor those who DEMAND that he has or will fail have anything close to reasonable proof. We will get a much better indication this fall.
 
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#368
#368
tvolsfan said:
How closely did you follow Michigan State in the 90's?

I'll admit I'm too young to remember, but I'm betting the situation at Michigan State was probably much harder to improve on than people are making it out to be.
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Yes and no. MSU was clearly not on the level of Michigan and OSU reputation or otherwise.

However, I'm not sure anyone else had a winning record for the decade. Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa were pretty bad for the whole decade. NW, Wisconsin, and Purdue had a few up years but some really bad years too.

MSU had a recruiting advantage vs the rest of the Big 10 minus OSU and Mich as well. The three best HSFB states in the Big 10 at the time were Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan in that order.

MSU was probably the 3rd strongest program in the 90's for the Big 10 and they were VERY mediocre. It was effectively a two team conference.
 
#369
#369
Orange_Crush said:
I am convinced he wouldn't have had any more success at UT the last 2 years than CDD has.

.
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Even if Dooley is a dud and UT could have had a Saban-like coach... I think the difference in wins is probably no more than plus 2.
 
#370
#370
tvolsfan said:
He has coached at two other stops in the SEC and he won quickly in both places. Are you trying to say that Gerry Dinardo and Mike Shula are master program builders?
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He had talent at LSU. I didn't follow Dinardo that closely because LSU wasn't worth following at the time. They DID have a lot of LA and TX talent to pull from though.

Shula left a pretty good roster. IIRC, Shula dealt with their NCAA problems and then started rebuilding the team. I am sure from his perspective the cord was cut just as he was emerging from the tunnel.

And he did deal with an NCAA investigation at Bama (their second in a short time), and I'm pretty sure they got hit harder than we did.
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UT's roster was in worse shape when DD took over than Bama's was through their whole troubled period.

You think Saban would be 11-14 and that he would have been dangerously close to 0-8 in SEC play his second year?
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He had more to work with. You can keep rephrasing that question until the end of time and the answer will ALWAYS be the same. He started with a better situation. He did succeed. Dooley may not. But Dooley DID start from a worse position AND did so after oversigning was disallowed.

If you'll remember, Saban signed some really big classes early on then culled the guys who didn't come in ready to play. He signed 32 in '08 and 28 in '09 to bring the roster back up to strength.
 
#371
#371
tvolsfan said:
That's fair, but I'm betting we would have seen progress instead of regresion.
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The team got younger from '10 to '11. They lost their best D player... best O player... QB.. best LB... while playing an incredibly difficult schedule.

The D DID improve over the course of the year though not in a smooth upward line. The OL went from one of the worst pass blocking units in the SEC to the best.

There was regression in areas but there was progress in others. Overall, whatever the "net" progress/regression was could have easily been obscured by the schedule they played.
 
#375
#375
emainvol said:
Go ahead and do your research, then get back to me when you have a damn clue.
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Someone sounds butthurt.

Spartacavolus said:
I think you may have been talking about Saban at MSU. It was referenced a couple of pages prior. I assumed you were talking about Alabama's probation and academic issues that you referenced.
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He's having trouble keeping up.

GAVol said:
Let me ask a stupid question . . . What difference does it make really whose situation sucked worse? Everybody knows the rubber meets the road for any hire in years 3and 4 anyway.
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That's an easy one. It matters because these guys are screaming for Dooley's head after two years, when he inherited a program in horrible shape. By illustrating that Nick Saban, who many of them consider the best coach in the game, had similar problems at MSU, it is being shown that two crappy years at a devastated program does not a crappy coach make.

Pretty simple, really.
 
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