A boy named Trayvon Martin is shot and killed by neighborhood watch goon

#152
#152
Dr Dread said:
So basically, what you're saying is that after getting knocked over the table, the guy should have got up and shot the guy dead and claim self-defense. But by passing on his option to defend himself with deadly force, that option now goes to the guy that started the fight.

Not hardly the way the law works.
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What?? I haven't the slightest idea how you got that from what I wrote. In fact it's the antithesis. I'm kind of bewildered actually. Please read again the reaction of the person I described as being knocked over the table, their reaction and what the consequences could be.
 
#153
#153
hndog609 said:
What?? I haven't the slightest idea how you got that from what I wrote. In fact it's the antithesis. I'm kind of bewildered actually. Please read again the reaction of the person I described as being knocked over the table, their reaction and what the consequences could be.
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In the example you gave, if the guy that got knocked over the table said he feared for is life then couldn't he then justify using deadly force?
 
#154
#154
I think I have read every or almost every story out there on this. Here's my overview. A young man went to the store to get Skittles for his brother. His return trip was interrupted needlessly with a confrontation and he was killed. What did I miss in this murder?
 
#155
#155
Slydell said:
I think I have read every or almost every story out there on this. Here's my overview. A young man went to the store to get Skittles for his brother. His return trip was interrupted needlessly with a confrontation and he was killed. What did I miss in this murder?
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Bout sums it up.
 
#156
#156
Dr Dread said:
In the example you gave, if the guy that got knocked over the table said he feared for is life then couldn't he then justify using deadly force?
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If the other person was not actively pressing an attack? No. If the other guy followed him to the ground over the table and continued to whale away on him then quite possibly.

My point was even if someone else "starts" something if you can't manage a articulable and reasonable justification for deadly force then you've overstepped your bounds.

Let me ask you something; I read somewhere that a 911 call came in about the Zimmerman incident where it sounded like Martin was on top of Zimmerman and the latter was calling for help. If ballistic evidence demonstrates a scenario where a bullet was fired consistent with Martin being on top of Zimmerman while the latter was on the ground in a defensive position how do you think that would look in court? How much would that change your view of the case? (These are the kinds of questions we don't have answers to that really need answering)
 
#158
#158
hndog609 said:
If the other person was not actively pressing an attack? No. If the other guy followed him to the ground over the table and continued to whale away on him then quite possibly.

My point was even if someone else "starts" something if you can't manage a articulable and reasonable justification for deadly force then you've overstepped your bounds.

Let me ask you something; I read somewhere that a 911 call came in about the Zimmerman incident where it sounded like Martin was on top of Zimmerman and the latter was calling for help. If ballistic evidence demonstrates a scenario where a bullet was fired consistent with Martin being on top of Zimmerman while the latter was on the ground in a defensive position how do you think that would look in court? How much would that change your view of the case? (These are the kinds of questions we don't have answers to that really need answering)
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I get what you are saying but I think it would be hard for me to believe that even if Trayvon was on top of him that it would justify the use of deadly force.
 
#159
#159
hndog609 said:
If the other person was not actively pressing an attack? No. If the other guy followed him to the ground over the table and continued to whale away on him then quite possibly.

My point was even if someone else "starts" something if you can't manage a articulable and reasonable justification for deadly force then you've overstepped your bounds.

Let me ask you something; I read somewhere that a 911 call came in about the Zimmerman incident where it sounded like Martin was on top of Zimmerman and the latter was calling for help. If ballistic evidence demonstrates a scenario where a bullet was fired consistent with Martin being on top of Zimmerman while the latter was on the ground in a defensive position how do you think that would look in court? How much would that change your view of the case? (These are the kinds of questions we don't have answers to that really need answering)
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That's my point. Now we're trying to decipher whether the dead guy was moving forward, walking away, acting in a threatening manner...

At the very least, you bring the shooter in for questioning so that you can get an official statement on record. Check to see if alcohol was involved. Not allow the shooter to go home and spend weeks getting a story together.

As to the 911 calls, they state that they heard "someone" screaming for help. The only one who said that they heard Zimmerman screaming for help has stated that when being questioned by the police she initially stated that she heard Martin screaming for help, but the officer corrected her and told her it was Zimmerman calling for help. Take that for what it's worth. At the very least, Zimmerman should have been required to come in and make a statement.

I also find it hard to believe that an unarmed 140lb 17yo kid can cause a 240lb 28yo man to believe his life is in danger to the degree that deadly force is necessary. In your scenario, you at least put a weapon in the guy's hand.
 
#160
#160
VolsNSkinsFan said:
a chick named Jonatha Carr went ballistic yesterday... Just google her name and turn the volume down
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Wow. This women must have been off her meds. When she hit the man in the face, i almost choked. I thought for sure he was going to grab her by the back of her head and throw her head face first into the desk.
 
#161
#161
Dr Dread said:
That's my point. Now we're trying to decipher whether the dead guy was moving forward, walking away, acting in a threatening manner...

At the very least, you bring the shooter in for questioning so that you can get an official statement on record. Check to see if alcohol was involved. Not allow the shooter to go home and spend weeks getting a story together.

Are you saying Zimmerman never made an official statement to the police? This may be the case but I find that hard to believe. As for being arrested and detained that's iffy. It was determined at the scene there wasn't evidence sufficient to warrant that. You can disagree but that was the case.

As to the 911 calls, they state that they heard "someone" screaming for help. The only one who said that they heard Zimmerman screaming for help has stated that when being questioned by the police she initially stated that she heard Martin screaming for help, but the officer corrected her and told her it was Zimmerman calling for help. Take that for what it's worth. At the very least, Zimmerman should have been required to come in and make a statement.

Man shot and killed in neighborhood altercation

I also find it hard to believe that an unarmed 140lb 17yo kid can cause a 240lb 28yo man to believe his life is in danger to the degree that deadly force is necessary. In your scenario, you at least put a weapon in the guy's hand.
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Doubt Bruce Lee weighed much more than that and he'd kick both our butts. :) Seriously though I tend to agree in principle but as a matter of law that's some really muddy water.
 
#162
#162
One thing for sure, besides this being obvious murder, the family needs a new lawyer. Dude seems to be lost with all the attention they are getting
 
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#166
#166
OrangeEmpire said:
Great link, as silly as becks
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Seriously... They point out that Beck was formerly a Fox news host yet conveniently leave out he was also on CNN for a while... Beck, of course, is a lunatic (and I'm a fairly conservative guy saying that!) but the slant with which this story is being framed is a classic example of why the media (ALL media.. conservative,liberal, moderate... whatever..) should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.
 
#167
#167
YorkVol said:
More protests happening today, Al Sharpton in the area...

Al Sharpton to join protest over killing of unarmed Florida teen - CNN.com


Note some of the witness statements in this article.
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That link just points out how hard it must be to ever get to the truth of anything these days. This link really pushes the idea of a racial slur being pretty clear in the 911 audio.

Trayvon Martin 911 Tape Reveals Possible Racial Slur By Neighborhood Watchman George Zimmerman (VIDEO)

This while the other post states that, even after being enhanced by a sound engineer, CNN's editorial staff could not reach a concensus that was the case.

Then there's these contradictions right there in the same link.

"The time that we heard the whining and then the gunshot, we did not hear any wrestling, no punching, no fighting, nothing to make it sound like there was a fight," said Mary Cutcher, one of the callers.
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as opposed to

Moments later, several neighbors called the emergency number to report a commotion outside.
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and this

The 911 tapes, released by police, revealed that while some neighbors were on the phone with emergency dispatchers, cries for help followed by a gunshot sounded in the background.
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So then with all of the a hoopla mentiond elsewhere in just this link we have this.

Another caller, Selma Mora Lamilla, said she did not hear any altercation, but the teen cried and "whimpered" before the shooting.
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So this last lady can make out hearing the kid "whimper" but apparently not anything else reported by several others? (not to mention the witness statement made in the link I cited in my last post)

This is all such a mess now I seriously wonder if we'll ever really know what happened without somebody skewing it one way or the other.
 
#168
#168
KoachKrab127 said:
Glenn Beck's website discusses it. As usual, this is disgusting.

Beck's Website Calls Trayvon Martin "The Aggressor" | Mother Jones
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I find it telling that Mother Jones does not mention Zimmermans race leaving it to the reader to infer that he is white.

Zimmerman:

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#173
#173
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#174
#174
GoBigOrangeUT said:
Probably due to the fact that the person responsible in that horrific case was arrested immediately. Meanwhile, Zimmerman remains a free man.
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Couples home was invaded and they were killed. We know the killers and responsible party along the with victims. Zimmermans case is still being investigated. I dont know if he killed in cold blood with a jumpy trigger finger or if he was jumped ( even if mr zimmerman walked up to the kid and initiated the confrontation) by a 17 who himself felt threatened by a strnge man approaching him. We dont know. We may never no. In Zimmermans case....i dont think justice can or will be served in the eyes of the public know matter what the outcome.
 
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