Deficit up 17%

#176
#176
Vol_Doc said:
I think the disconnect is the idea that it's only failure and bad decisions that land folks in hard times. There's a lot of unavoidable misfortune to be blamed as well. That said, I'm for programs that actually help those folks to get back on their feet, when possible, rather than making them dependent on the government.
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No problem at all with that.
 
#177
#177
Vol_Doc said:
I think the disconnect is the idea that it's only failure and bad decisions that land folks in hard times. There's a lot of unavoidable misfortune to be blamed as well. That said, I'm for programs that actually help those folks to get back on their feet, when possible, rather than making them dependent on the government.
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That's wise.
 
#178
#178
C-south said:
Helping someone in need is never an issue. Rewarding failure and bad decision making is. You can get away with bad decisions if you’re born rich but can’t as much if you’re born poor. Key is don’t make bad decisions if you want to better yourself. When you give free stuff FOR LIFE all you’re doing is taking away any incentive to not make bad choices. Do I mind having a system that helps someone get on their feet? No. Do I mind a system that offers life long dependence? Yes.
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No one wants a system that offers life long dependence. If you actually think that is the liberal objective, you've been drinking way to much Kool-Aid.
 
#179
#179
luthervol said:
No one wants a system that offers life long dependence. If you actually think that is the liberal objective, you've been drinking way to much Kool-Aid.
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So, are the liberals just incompetent? Because that's what we have, muti-generational welfare culture. While I'm sure that probably isn't the average liberal citizen's desire, it seems to be our government's goal.
 
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#184
#184
Orange_Crush said:
So, your assumption that gov't is required to help the less fortunate actually makes @C-south correct that you want big government as a security blanket for failure and bad decisions.
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He implied that the security blanket was wanted by liberals because of their own individual failures. That is categorically wrong for the majority of liberals. It's more for the less fortunate than for failure and bad decisions.
 
#187
#187
luthervol said:
He implied that the security blanket was wanted by liberals because of their own individual failures. That is categorically wrong for the majority of liberals. It's more for the less fortunate than for failure and bad decisions.
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Ah... So, you all want government as a security blanket for failure and misfortune, not yourselves personally (unless you fail and fall on misfortune).

In any case. You want government as a security blanket. You just want to split hairs about why you want it. OK.
 
#189
#189
hog88 said:
For people that didn't have life-long dependence as their goal they sure setup a system to promote it.
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To be fair, welfare was born out of the tragedy of The Great Depression. So many were destitute that a national welfare system was preferable to rioting. It definitely needs reform at this point, though.
 
#191
#191
Vol_Doc said:
To be fair, welfare was born out of the tragedy of The Great Depression. So many were destitute that a national welfare system was preferable to rioting. It definitely needs reform at this point, though.
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I know the why, but no one can honestly say that the system has been used to maintain a voting block.
 
#192
#192
Orange_Crush said:
So, are the liberals just incompetent? Because that's what we have, muti-generational welfare culture. While I'm sure that probably isn't the average liberal citizen's desire, it seems to be our government's goal.
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It's not the governments goal either. Clinton and Obama were both looking for ways to move people off of assistance.
 
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