Are people going crazy because they think Oklahoma is a 8-5 football team?

[ajvol01]

Most people think Trump will make a good President too. Echo chamber logic is not logic.

Missouri won the SEC East 2 years in a row.

 

[NWGVol]

Our possession took 2 minutes off the clock. Even if we don't get a single first down, in your scenario that's four minutes gone. With the remaining 6 minutes, Florida has to score three times including a touchdown, and has to either get inside the red zone all three times or rely on, again, a freshman backup kicker to make not one but two long field goals.

Keep in mind, their first touchdown drive, by itself, took more than 6 minutes.

That's virtually impossible, and if we get a single first down and take another 2 minutes off the clock, it's just about literally impossible. But that doesn't stop the Butch Brigade

First of all, I lean more towards Butch not being able to get us back to the top, so I'm most definitely not part of the Butch Brigade.

Second of all, you're still using hindsight in your argument by mentioning their 6 min drive for a TD.

I will give another scenario that you can't use time as an argument. Hell, it may even be a more likely scenario that COULD have happened. Go for 2 and miss. Florida scores 2 TDS as they did, but miss one of their PATs. Final score 27-26.

Same outcome , same mouth breathers on here screaming "if that idiot Butch had just kicked the damn PAT we would've won! That was the worst call ever"

 

[omghulkhands]

How do we know anything is ever a mistake without hindsight?

 

[KBVol]

For them to go up 27-26:
- They'd have to finish 3 straight drives with points without us getting a single stop
- They'd probably have to keep us from getting a single first down on either of our two possessions, or there wouldn't be enough time to do it
- They'd have to get two FGs from their freshman backup kicker.

In other words, our offense AND defense would both have to completely collapse as their special teams stepped up. And even then they'd probably run out of time.

Like I said, I and many others questioned that call as soon as it was made. No hindsight necessary.

Exactly. No hindsight needed. I jumped up off the recliner when he kicked the extra point screaming "what the hell?" and "that's gonna come back to bite us". And anybody else watching had to be saying and thinking the same thing. That 1 point was completely inconsequential and going for 2 was the ONLY thing to do there.

 

[NWGVol]

How do we know anything is ever a mistake without hindsight?

We don't. That's why it's ignorant to be outraged about a play call after the fact.

 

[Volumnus 2011]

There's only so many times I can look this right. Look at my screen name. LOL.

Let me gloat this one time.

Go ahead, just take it down a notch.

 

[NashVol11]

First of all, I lean more towards Butch not being able to get us back to the top, so I'm most definitely not part of the Butch Brigade.

Second of all, you're still using hindsight in your argument by mentioning their 6 min drive for a TD.

I will give another scenario that you can't use time as an argument. Hell, it may even be a more likely scenario that COULD have happened. Go for 2 and miss. Florida scores 2 TDS as they did, but miss one of their PATs. Final score 27-26.

Same outcome , same mouth breathers on here screaming "if that idiot Butch had just kicked the damn PAT we would've won! That was the worst call ever"

I disagree that there would be the same criticism. Missing a 20-yard extra point is a highly unlikely situation, just like the situation of executing a 2-minute scoring drive AND getting a stop with no first downs AND executing another 2-minute scoring drive AND getting another stop with no first downs AND executing a third 2-minute scoring drive. Either of those scenarios is ridiculously unlikely to happen.

Florida scoring two TDs in 10 minutes, especially when they're highly unlikely (see above) to even have the time to try field goals and will instead be going for it on 4th, is much much more likely. And you don't need hindsight to see that.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Missouri won the SEC East 2 years in a row.

Missouri had decent teams. Stingy defenses and servicable offenses. It's not like they won the division by being 6-6.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I was ok with kicking an not going for two when it happened. Once we lost, I went on record saying that we should have went for two and got it and then win in overtime.

I do respect the fact that Butch said the chart says go for 2, but he went against the chart, based on how well our defense had been playing.

Go Vols!

 

[ajvol01]

Missouri had decent teams. Stingy defenses and servicable offenses. It's not like they won the division by being 6-6.

If the East wasn't down there is no way in hell that a "decent" Mizzou team could have won the division - 2 years in a row makes this point even more clear.

Mary Mauk was mediocre at best.

 

[NWGVol]

I disagree that there would be the same criticism. Missing a 20-yard extra point is a highly unlikely situation, just like the situation of executing a 2-minute scoring drive AND getting a stop with no first downs AND executing another 2-minute scoring drive AND getting another stop with no first downs AND executing a third 2-minute scoring drive. Either of those scenarios is ridiculously unlikely to happen.

Florida scoring two TDs in 10 minutes, especially when they're highly unlikely (see above) to even have the time to try field goals and will instead be going for it on 4th, is much much more likely. And you don't need hindsight to see that.

Ridiculously unlikely that Florida misses a PAT? Are you serious? They missed 5 PATs this season.

 

[omghulkhands]

We don't. That's why it's ignorant to be outraged about a play call after the fact.

I'll be honest, that doesn't make sense

You are saying mistakes that happened in the past are not allowed to be criticisized? Which would mean all mistakes ever...which would mean nobody has ever made a mistake....

You see, I know that isn't what you mean, so I'm not following

It's like me saying

"Of course hiring Dooley and Kiffin looks bad now. Because that's hindsight. You can't criticize Hamilton for that. It's hindsight."

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I'll be honest, that doesn't make sense

You are saying mistakes that happened in the past are not allowed to be criticisized? Which would mean all mistakes ever...which would mean nobody has ever made a mistake....

You see, I know that isn't what you mean, so I'm not following

It's like me saying

"Of course hiring Dooley and Kiffin looks bad now. Because that's hindsight. You can't criticize Hamilton for that. It's hindsight."

I'm assuming that he's saying criticize and let it go. Don't constantly harp on it. ***** and let it go, otherwise you sound like a nagging wife.

 

[ReaderVol]

I was ok with kicking an not going for two when it happened. Once we lost, I went on record saying that we should have went for two and got it and then win in overtime.

I do respect the fact that Butch said the chart says go for 2, but he went against the chart, based on how well our defense had been playing.

Go Vols!

But how can that be? According to the brain trust on here all Jones does is coach by the chart? So obviously you're wrong...

Coaches use their gut a lot and sometimes they're wrong. When they're right they're a genius and when they're wrong they're idiots. Fans are always smarter than the coaches.

 

[ReaderVol]

I'm assuming that he's saying criticize and let it go. Don't constantly harp on it. ***** and let it go, otherwise you sound like a nagging wife.

Good luck with that. They will never stop until Jones is gone. They live to gripe about him. It's their life.

 

[omghulkhands]

Good luck with that. They will never stop until Jones is gone. They live to gripe about him. It's their life.

This isn't true.

That would be like me saying that you love to gargle his sweat and are a Butch fan, not a UT fan

Which you would take offense to obviously. And it also isn't true.

Don't generalize people

The vast majority just have criticisms and talk about areas of improvement. It's not a great conspiracy to get rid of the coach. It's just football talk

For instance, I think the the coaching staff made mistakes that cost us important football games. They have done a good job since then and persevered

I hope we keep winning, hope Butch is here for eternity winning championships. But he isn't perfect and I won't act like he is and it doesn't hurt my feelings if someone has a criticism of something he did in the past. Instead I'll debate and talk about it with people

 

[ReaderVol]

This isn't true.

That would be like me saying that you love to gargle his sweat and are a Butch fan, not a UT fan

Which you would take offense to obviously. And it also isn't true.

Don't generalize people

The vast majority just have criticisms and talk about areas of improvement. It's not a great conspiracy to get rid of the coach. It's just football talk

For instance, I think the the coaching staff made mistakes that cost us important football games. They have done a good job since then and persevered

I hope we keep winning, hope Butch is here for eternity winning championships. But he isn't perfect and I won't act like he is and it doesn't hurt my feelings if someone has a criticism of something he did in the past. Instead I'll debate and talk about it with people

Then why do some on here bring Jones into most threads? And some have posted and voted in polls that they will not be happy til he's gone.

 

[omghulkhands]

Then why do some on here bring Jones into most threads? And some have posted and voted in polls that they will not be happy til he's gone.

"Some" you said it

I'm telling you it's a small minirity and you come across as treating it as a vast majority

And it's just not unusual for people to bring up Jones in threads. He is the face of the program right now. It's like how people bring up Obama for any and everything whether he has anything to do with it or not. Was the same with Bush before him

 

[ReaderVol]

"Some" you said it

I'm telling you it's a small minirity and you come across as treating it as a vast majority

And it's just not unusual for people to bring up Jones in threads. He is the face of the program right now.

I've stated in MANY post. MANY, MANY posts telling them they are in a very big minority, so you're wrong in assuming different. If what I post does not fit your stance then why say a damned thing?

And yes he is the face of the program but when a thread is about say... the young lady who paints the rock or about another schools coach why is it reasonable to bash Jones in threads such as those?

 

[omghulkhands]

I've stated in MANY post. MANY, MANY posts telling them they are in a very big minority, so you're wrong in assuming different. If what I post does not fit your stance then why say a damned thing?

And yes he is the face of the program but when a thread is about say... the young lady who paints the rock or about another schools coach why is it reasonable to bash Jones in threads such as those?

I just think you can't or won't sepetate criticism from bashing.

They aren't the same, and from my perspective you routinely treat them as such.

It's like if people don't agree with you exactly, then they must be against you.

But whatever, I'm done with this therapy session with you

Go vols

 

[ReaderVol]

"Some" you said it

I'm telling you it's a small minirity and you come across as treating it as a vast majority

And it's just not unusual for people to bring up Jones in threads. He is the face of the program right now. It's like how people bring up Obama for any and everything whether he has anything to do with it or not. Was the same with Bush before him

And what's also interesting to me and others who support our coach is yours and those who say the same as you are so selective in your posts. ie some one makes a post bashing the coach and you and your "I support the coach and want him to succeed but just criticize" crew say zilch. Yet myself or others make a post in response in support and you and others are very quick to "straiten" us out and lecture us? To use a political analysis "since you did" it's like when the UN says they support Israel but condemns them for responding to attacks.

 

[omghulkhands]

And what's also interesting to me and others who support our coach is yours and those who say the same as you are so selective in your posts. ie some one makes a post bashing the coach and you and your "I support the coach and want him to succeed but just criticize" crew say zilch. Yet myself or others make a post in response in support and you and others are very quick to "straiten" us out and lecture us? To use a political analysis "since you did" it's like when the UN says they support Israel but condemns them for responding to attacks.

So what's my ulterior motive?

So im just lying to you?

That I want Butch jones fired? That I want the entire football program to fail, Lose games...and then I'll be happy?

I can assure you that my willingness or lack thereof to participate in Ra-Ra, pat on the back, high fiving posts has more to do with my personality than my opinion of Butch Jones...but I don't think you can be convinced of that. And that's what makes this conversation pointless.

 

[ReaderVol]

So what's my ulterior motive?

So im just lying to you?

That I want Butch jones fired? That I want the entire football program to fail, Lose games...and then I'll be happy?

I can assure you that my willingness or lack thereof to participate in Ra-Ra, pat on the back, high fiving posts has more to do with my personality than my opinion of Butch Jones...but I don't think you can be convinced of that. And that's what makes this conversation pointless.

Again, if you don't fall into the category of those who do in fact want him fired and the group I describe then why are you offended and feel the need to defend those who actually do?
Also, why do those who state the same thing you do (I support him and want him to succeed but just want to criticize him) feel the need to lecture me and others for defending our coach and yet you never defend our coach against those who do actually bash?

 

[SolidRockGolf]

So what's my ulterior motive?

So im just lying to you?

That I want Butch jones fired? That I want the entire football program to fail, Lose games...and then I'll be happy?

I can assure you that my willingness or lack thereof to participate in Ra-Ra, pat on the back, high fiving posts has more to do with my personality than my opinion of Butch Jones...but I don't think you can be convinced of that. And that's what makes this conversation pointless.

I'll agree that your personality is "glass is half empty" but you also bring stubbornness along with it. No other way you can stick to you guns. Not all logic argued against you is wrong but you treat it that way.

When you decide CBJ made a bad call or calls then you will never say "you right, that possible fact about a player could be true". His call "could" have been warranted. No use in pointing out to you as its not a possibility of being true...... Why? Doesn't support your "personality" to be angry.

 

[omghulkhands]

Again, if you don't fall into the category of those who do in fact want him fired and the group I describe then why are you offended and feel the need to defend those who actually do?
Also, why do those who state the same thing you do (I support him and want him to succeed but just want to criticize him) feel the need to lecture me and others for defending our coach and yet you never defend our coach against those who do actually bash?

Nothing you say offends me. Don't be trite with me

I'm not defending anyone, I'm challenging your perspectives

And again, for your last question.as I said, I believe you perceive peoples intentions incorrectly

Ergo, they aren't lecturing you, they are debating you.