Are people going crazy because they think Oklahoma is a 8-5 football team?

[titansvolsfaninga]

I personally thought the Oklahoma debacle was even more shameful than the FLorida one.

Good thing no one cares what you think.

 

[ReaderVol]

Saban started Cooper Bateman against Ole Miss, that's a bonehead decision. Like I said, most times talent and depth can cover up coaching deficiencies. If we get a couple of stops, you don't even talk about kicking the extra point instead of going for two.

For the longest people were crying about kicking the field goal instead of going for it on 4th down against OU. Vandy stopped us on 4th down.

Everyone seems like a genius with the advantage of hindsight.

Impossible!!! There's only one coach who ever makes mistakes. Come on man!!!

 

[VolFan4Life87]

I personally thought the Oklahoma debacle was even more shameful than the FLorida one.

No way. In the Florida game we were up 26-14 and kicked a PAT. A 7 year old playing NCAA 14 on Xbox knows you go for two there every....single....f****** time. It's automatic. I can't think of a worse call all season. What do you know we lose 28-27. Exactly the reason you go for 2.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

No way. In the Florida game we were up 26-14 and kicked a PAT. A 7 year old playing NCAA 14 on Xbox knows you go for two there every....single....f****** time. It's automatic. I can't think of a worse call all season. What do you know we lose 28-27. Exactly the reason you go for 2.

That's the problem. THIS IS NOT XBOX. . It has been apparent that CBJ does not fully trust the line in short yardage situations, as evidenced by the Vandy stuff on 4th and goal. However it appears our fans are too dim to realize that. CBJ is not going to come out and say, I don't trust our execution on short yardage plays, he defers to the safest or highest percentage play.

 

[jbr82]

That many mistakes in one season against big boys will cost us winning the east and playing for a championship yearly. So it matters to some. The big boys are adding talent as well. CBJ and co. has to earn some fans trust by out coaching the big boys. Some remain skeptical until he proves otherwise.

 

[jbr82]

That's the problem. THIS IS NOT XBOX. . It has been apparent that CBJ does not fully trust the line in short yardage situations, as evidenced by the Vandy stuff on 4th and goal. However it appears our fans are too dim to realize that. CBJ is not going to come out and say, I don't trust our execution on short yardage plays, he defers to the safest or highest percentage play.

Run/pass option is good for a running qb.

Jancek should have sent 5 maybe 6 guys on that 4th and half a mile imo

 

[NashVol11]

Saban started Cooper Bateman against Ole Miss, that's a bonehead decision. Like I said, most times talent and depth can cover up coaching deficiencies. If we get a couple of stops, you don't even talk about kicking the extra point instead of going for two.

For the longest people were crying about kicking the field goal instead of going for it on 4th down against OU. Vandy stopped us on 4th down.

Everyone seems like a genius with the advantage of hindsight.

Again, you don't need hindsight to see that either of those decisions were terrible decisions.

There's an argument for taking one QB over another based on what you've seen in practice, or going for a long FG when it'll win the game. There's no rational argument to be made for settling for 27-14 with 10 minutes to go, or for challenging an obviously correct call when your timeouts are the only thing giving you a chance to get the ball back.

 

[VolFan4Life87]

That's the problem. THIS IS NOT XBOX. . It has been apparent that CBJ does not fully trust the line in short yardage situations, as evidenced by the Vandy stuff on 4th and goal. However it appears our fans are too dim to realize that. CBJ is not going to come out and say, I don't trust our execution on short yardage plays, he defers to the safest or highest percentage play.

Losing by 1 or losing by 2 is still losing. YOU ALWAYS GO FOR TWO IN THAT SITUATION - real life OR xbox.

 

[NashVol11]

That's the problem. THIS IS NOT XBOX. . It has been apparent that CBJ does not fully trust the line in short yardage situations, as evidenced by the Vandy stuff on 4th and goal. However it appears our fans are too dim to realize that. CBJ is not going to come out and say, I don't trust our execution on short yardage plays, he defers to the safest or highest percentage play.

You know you don't have to run on a 2-point conversion, right? In fact, most people don't.

Going for 1 isn't really "safe," because 27 points isn't any better than 26. 28 is the only number that could make a difference, unless you think the final 10 minutes of the game will include 3 full scoring drives for Florida (with 2 Tennessee possessions in between).

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

You know you don't have to run on a 2-point conversion, right? In fact, most people don't.

Going for 1 isn't really "safe," because 27 points isn't any better than 26. 28 is the only number that could make a difference, unless you think the final 10 minutes of the game will include 3 full scoring drives for Florida (with 2 Tennessee possessions in between).

Yep, I'm pretty sure I know you don't have to run for a two point conversion. I do know that they OL is still on the field. I do know that they were improved, but were still questionable. In both situations, CBJ gambled that the defense would be able to make at least one stop. Both times, the defense gave up big plays. Like I said, if the defense makes a stop, these are moot points.

Now I do have a problem with Jancek only rushing three. I don't think that has worked once this year.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Run/pass option is good for a running qb.

Jancek should have sent 5 maybe 6 guys on that 4th and half a mile imo

Most plays are run/pass options.

 

[NashVol11]

Yep, I'm pretty sure I know you don't have to run for a two point conversion. I do know that they OL is still on the field. I do know that they were improved, but were still questionable. In both situations, CBJ gambled that the defense would be able to make at least one stop. Both times, the defense gave up big plays. Like I said, if the defense makes a stop, these are moot points.

Now I do have a problem with Jancek only rushing three. I don't think that has worked once this year.

My point is that it didn't even have to be a gamble. Going for 2 is all upside and literally zero downside, unless you actually DON'T believe in your defense and think Florida has time to put together three scoring drives in 10 minutes.

 

[NashVol11]

I'm derailing this thread, but my points are:

1. I still don't think the Oklahoma team that beat us, on that day, was all that great or was better than us. I think Mayfield improved as the season went along, and they're much better now. But I acknowledge that it's possible that Mayfield was good the whole time (he'd been a starter before), and he looked bad against us because our defense played well. The coaches and players deserve credit for that, but I think we should have won the game.

2. Not all coaching mistakes are equal, and some of Butch's have been utterly atrocious. That could change, but there's no need to pretend like it's not a troubling sign. To write them off as "everyone does that" (they don't) or "talent will fix it, and we won't even need to be in close games" (we will) is to ignore what nearly everyone, national media included, can clearly see as a bad decision even before the fact.

Hopefully we figure it out; Ron Rivera has, and after going 2-14 in close games as an overly conservative coach, he was on the hot seat and decided to just go for it, earning the nickname "Riverboat Ron" and going 14-2-1 in close games since. But that was in year 3 of his career as a head coach; Butch just finished year 9, so he seems less likely to just change his approach now. But again, I hope he does, because we now have the talent (thanks to Butch, absolutely) to be a playoff contender starting in 2016.

 

[ReaderVol]

That many mistakes in one season against big boys will cost us winning the east and playing for a championship yearly. So it matters to some. The big boys are adding talent as well. CBJ and co. has to earn some fans trust by out coaching the big boys. Some remain skeptical until he proves otherwise.

The overwhelming majority of fans do trust Jones and staff. Soooooooo

 

[sanddune50]

I called it in September.

Lotta folks made fool's outta themselves freaking out about losing to a playoff team in double ot.

 

[JC61]

I'm derailing this thread, but my points are:

1. I still don't think the Oklahoma team that beat us, on that day, was all that great or was better than us. I think Mayfield improved as the season went along, and they're much better now. But I acknowledge that it's possible that Mayfield was good the whole time (he'd been a starter before), and he looked bad against us because our defense played well. The coaches and players deserve credit for that, but I think we should have won the game.

2. Not all coaching mistakes are equal, and some of Butch's have been utterly atrocious. That could change, but there's no need to pretend like it's not a troubling sign. To write them off as "everyone does that" (they don't) or "talent will fix it, and we won't even need to be in close games" (we will) is to ignore what nearly everyone, national media included, can clearly see as a bad decision even before the fact.

Hopefully we figure it out; Ron Rivera has, and after going 2-14 in close games as an overly conservative coach, he was on the hot seat and decided to just go for it, earning the nickname "Riverboat Ron" and going 14-2-1 in close games since. But that was in year 3 of his career as a head coach; Butch just finished year 9, so he seems less likely to just change his approach now. But again, I hope he does, because we now have the talent (thanks to Butch, absolutely) to be a playoff contender starting in 2016.

Wikipedia is good :clap:

So is Cam :good!:

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I'm derailing this thread, but my points are:

1. I still don't think the Oklahoma team that beat us, on that day, was all that great or was better than us. I think Mayfield improved as the season went along, and they're much better now. But I acknowledge that it's possible that Mayfield was good the whole time (he'd been a starter before), and he looked bad against us because our defense played well. The coaches and players deserve credit for that, but I think we should have won the game.

2. Not all coaching mistakes are equal, and some of Butch's have been utterly atrocious. That could change, but there's no need to pretend like it's not a troubling sign. To write them off as "everyone does that" (they don't) or "talent will fix it, and we won't even need to be in close games" (we will) is to ignore what nearly everyone, national media included, can clearly see as a bad decision even before the fact.

Hopefully we figure it out; Ron Rivera has, and after going 2-14 in close games as an overly conservative coach, he was on the hot seat and decided to just go for it, earning the nickname "Riverboat Ron" and going 14-2-1 in close games since. But that was in year 3 of his career as a head coach; Butch just finished year 9, so he seems less likely to just change his approach now. But again, I hope he does, because we now have the talent (thanks to Butch, absolutely) to be a playoff contender starting in 2016.

Please provide me just one coach that has NEVER made a coaching mistake. See you are treading into supposition as opposed to fact. The fact is that all coaches make coaching blunders. You are working under a false premise that there are infallible coaches out there. The premise is totally false. Since that is proven false, the rest of your argument falls apart.

Yes CBJ made some conservative errors. That should be the end of the argument. He was conservative in his approach because he knows the personnel better than you or I.

 

[NashVol11]

Please provide me just one coach that has NEVER made a coaching mistake. See you are treading into supposition as opposed to fact. The fact is that all coaches make coaching blunders. You are working under a false premise that there are infallible coaches out there. The premise is totally false. Since that is proven false, the rest of your argument falls apart.

Yes CBJ made some conservative errors. That should be the end of the argument. He was conservative in his approach because he knows the personnel better than you or I.

Every coach makes mistakes. Not every coach makes mistakes like those.

Personnel doesn't make a difference in that situation. There is nothing gained by being up 13 instead of up 12 with that little time left. There's a lot to be gained by being up 14. Therefore, you go for the 14. Period.

 

[NashVol11]

Wikipedia is good :clap:

So is Cam :good!:

I actually got that from the Panthers thread, not from Wiki, haha. That would take too much time, even for me.

But I completely agree on Cam. He's an absolute freak athletically and one of the best young QBs in the NFL.

 

[NWGVol]

You know you don't have to run on a 2-point conversion, right? In fact, most people don't.

Going for 1 isn't really "safe," because 27 points isn't any better than 26. 28 is the only number that could make a difference, unless you think the final 10 minutes of the game will include 3 full scoring drives for Florida (with 2 Tennessee possessions in between).

You're using hindsight to strengthen your argument. 10 minutes could be plenty of time to get three possessions. Especially considering it wouldn't take three TD drives if the score was 26-14. One TD AND two FGs would have made the final score 27-26. Then you and all the others that won't let it go would have been on here saying " they should have kicked the PAT, that would have forced them to have to score TDs instead of FGs"

You would then be arguing that NOT kicking the PAT was the worst call ever.

I'm in no way saying that he shouldn't have gone for 2 either. I'm just saying quit using hindsight to call it the worst call ever.

 

[NashVol11]

You're using hindsight to strengthen your argument. 10 minutes could be plenty of time to get three possessions. Especially considering it wouldn't take three TD drives if the score was 26-14. One TD AND two FGs would have made the final score 27-26. Then you and all the others that won't let it go would have been on here saying " they should have kicked the PAT, that would have forced them to have to score TDs instead of FGs"

You would then be arguing that NOT kicking the PAT was the worst call ever.

I'm in no way saying that he shouldn't have gone for 2 either. I'm just saying quit using hindsight to call it the worst call ever.

For them to go up 27-26:
- They'd have to finish 3 straight drives with points without us getting a single stop
- They'd probably have to keep us from getting a single first down on either of our two possessions, or there wouldn't be enough time to do it
- They'd have to get two FGs from their freshman backup kicker.

In other words, our offense AND defense would both have to completely collapse as their special teams stepped up. And even then they'd probably run out of time.

Like I said, I and many others questioned that call as soon as it was made. No hindsight necessary.

 

[NWGVol]

For them to go up 27-26:
- They'd have to finish 3 straight drives with points without us getting a single stop
- They'd probably have to keep us from getting a single first down on either of our two possessions, or there wouldn't be enough time to do it
- They'd have to get two FGs from their freshman backup kicker.

In other words, our offense AND defense would both have to completely collapse as their special teams stepped up. And even then they'd probably run out of time.

Like I said, I and many others questioned that call as soon as it was made. No hindsight necessary.

Our defense collapsed on their last 2 drives and offense collapsed on the drive in between. It's not inconceivable to think they wouldn't have done it again had the situation played out with florida needing 3 possessions to win. You have nothing but hindsight.

 

[ajvol01]

lol

Has anyone ever been able to explain anything to you guys?

All the stats in the world should never replace common sense.

Your theory doesn't work because the SEC East has been down - anyone that watched football the last 10 years could tell you that.

If you asked 100 people if the East was down, they'd say something like : "Well yeah, duh!!"

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

All the stats in the world should never replace common sense.

Your theory doesn't work because the SEC East has been down - anyone that watched football the last 10 years could tell you that.

If you asked 100 people if the East was down, they'd say something like : "Well yeah, duh!!"

Most people think Trump will make a good President too. Echo chamber logic is not logic.

 

[NashVol11]

Our defense collapsed on their last 2 drives and offense collapsed on the drive in between. It's not inconceivable to think they wouldn't have done it again had the situation played out with florida needing 3 possessions to win. You have nothing but hindsight.

Our possession took 2 minutes off the clock. Even if we don't get a single first down, in your scenario that's four minutes gone. With the remaining 6 minutes, Florida has to score three times including a touchdown, and has to either get inside the red zone all three times or rely on, again, a freshman backup kicker to make not one but two long field goals.

Keep in mind, their first touchdown drive, by itself, took more than 6 minutes.

That's virtually impossible, and if we get a single first down and take another 2 minutes off the clock, it's just about literally impossible. But that doesn't stop the Butch Brigade