Ukraine Protests

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#3,828
#3,828
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#3,833
#3,833
Rasputin_Vol said:
And who runs the media in this country, Einstein?

Wait, you trust our govt propaganda more than their alleged propaganda? :crazy:
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Often, though not always, larger western news organizations do factfinding/reporting apart from the information the government provides.
 
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#3,834
#3,834
Velo Vol said:
Often, though not always, larger western news organizations do factfinding/reporting apart from the information the government provides.
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Can't agree with you there. What passes for news today is: event happens->get an official on the record->maybe get an expert with a different opinion on the record-> attend press conference-> print an article with a bunch of people quoted in it.

Add to that, every news organization has their own agenda nowadays and there is very little factfinding in the MSM. There have even been a couple of journalists from major papers recently that were fired for plagiarism. They eventually got caught, but only after years of making stuff up.

Today, most of the major investigative journalism is done by smaller websites. How many scandals has Drudge uncovered that the MSM either missed or didn't report until it was so big they'd look negligent if they didn't cover it? If you pay attention you'll see how bad it is.

The tape in question (along with the video of a missile launcher driving down a road) ran on every news channel with the caveat "this has not been verified." But everyone's opinion has been shaped by the "evidence" that showed up on social media. If it is true that the tapes were created before the plane was ever shot down, then the event was planned. If western journalists are so involved in factfinding why haven't they refuted the article by ITAR TASS.

Come to think of it, the story kind of died down after the Russians came out with their evidence. :whistling:
 
#3,836
#3,836
red butler said:
Can't agree with you there. What passes for news today is: event happens->get an official on the record->maybe get an expert with a different opinion on the record-> attend press conference-> print an article with a bunch of people quoted in it.
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It depends on the story. Some have only limited sources of information, unless you want to spend a lot of money.
 
#3,838
#3,838
Vice News interviewed a Ukrainian who heard Russians talking about moving up to Kyiv and then West to Lviv.

Russian soldiers also admitting they support a second USSR

Any one think that could happen, or what would happen if it did?
 
#3,839
#3,839
VolsByNature said:
Vice News interviewed a Ukrainian who heard Russians talking about moving up to Kyiv and then West to Lviv.

Russian soldiers also admitting they support a second USSR

Any one think that could happen, or what would happen if it did?
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Sounds very hearsay-ish. Where did you find this information?

I don't think even Putin is crazy enough to do such a thing. For all his bare-chest beating, he's still a fairly calm, collected, and rationally calculating man.

I fear what could happen, however, when he feels like he's backed into a corner. For instance, he's simply unable to sufficiently respond to the US/EU (and even some Japanese, as I understand) sanctions due to the limits of his economic power, at least at the moment. If Ukrainian forces are threatening to eliminate the pro-Russian rebels, then he could conceivably see going in to "establish order" as a more beneficial option for him at home than worrying about any international implications. While I'm sure the man would love to "get the band back together" again, so to speak, regarding the former republics and spheres of influence of the USSR/Russian Empire, I think he realizes the unwise nature of actually enacting that strategy beyond Ukraine.
 
#3,840
#3,840
VolsByNature said:
Vice News interviewed a Ukrainian who heard Russians talking about moving up to Kyiv and then West to Lviv.

Russian soldiers also admitting they support a second USSR

Any one think that could happen, or what would happen if it did?
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The Russian Army is incapable of such an operation.
 
#3,842
#3,842
Burhead said:
The Russian Army is incapable of such an operation.
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That too. They might be able to pull off a takeover of a few of the former republics simultaneously, but being able to sustain the occupations would be untenable.
 
#3,843
#3,843
Burhead said:
Also sounds like their is a major operation against Donetsk tonight as well.
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It's getting desperation time for the Putster. The results of the next few weeks may determine whether or not T-90s go adventuring west through Ukraine.
 
#3,844
#3,844
volprof said:
Sounds very hearsay-ish. Where did you find this information?
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Appreciate your thoughts. I just heard it while watching a Vice news segment on what's going on today in Crimea. Someone claimed they were a prisoner, and heard from the Russians themselves boasting that the weapons they have will help them advance into those cities, North and northwest of Ukraine, a complete takeover.

Also Russians on camera saying they support a second USSR movement.
 
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#3,845
#3,845
VolsByNature said:
Appreciate your thoughts. I just heard it while watching a Vice news segment on what's going on today in Crimea. Someone claimed they were a prisoner, and heard from the Russians themselves boasting that the weapons they have will help them advance into those cities, North and northwest of Ukraine, a complete takeover.

Also Russians on camera saying they support a second USSR movement.
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Okay, thanks for the clarification. I don't doubt a good many Russians would support such a project, if not in practice, at least in theory. One of those "what if" sort of fantasies. Like Burhead said though, I think it's not attainable. However, lofty, unattainable goals of national expansion/aggression haven't always stopped folks in the past, so you never know.

Regarding the particular comments about the Russians in Crimea speaking to how their forces could take Kiev, that sounds like people just boasting. I will say, however, that we shouldn't rule out Putin trying to take at least some of Ukraine, perhaps from the eastern corridor all the way to Odessa. I just don't really see him moving beyond those locales.
 
#3,846
#3,846
volprof said:
That too. They might be able to pull off a takeover of a few of the former republics simultaneously, but being able to sustain the occupations would be untenable.
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What other republics?

The Russians could roll fairly easily over Ukraine, but then what? It would take a sizable occupation force beyond the borderland oblasts. They'd have to impose a government to maintain control. It would be messy.
 
#3,847
#3,847
Velo Vol said:
What other republics?

The Russians could roll fairly easily over Ukraine, but then what? It would take a sizable occupation force beyond the borderland oblasts. They'd have to impose a government to maintain control. It would be messy.
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Most of the former Central Asian republics have remained fairly cordial to Moscow, particularly Kazakhstan, so I don't know that Putin would even touch them, since they're still basically inside the loop, so to speak.

The Baltics are NATO, as you well know, so I don't think he touches them either for that reason.

The ones I could see, however, are the former Caucasus republics, especially since there's already a fairly sizable Russian military presence there, and Moldova since that's just one step beyond Ukraine.

Like I said in my other post though, sustaining the occupation is politically and economically unfeasible. But I do believe that, militarily, Russia is at least capable of doing what I mentioned. It would just be ultimately useless though.
 
#3,848
#3,848
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh currently reporting gunfire and RPG fire in Donestk's city center. The live report doesn't look too bad though.
 
#3,849
#3,849
Also, on the latest installment of "Russian Roulette" over at Vice, Simon Ostrovsky is embedded with a forward unit of Ukrainian soldiers moving towards Donetsk as rebels were retreating. According to Ostrovsky, the men claimed some rebel checkpoints that had been abandoned just that very morning of the recording. On site, Ostrovsky shows one particular checkpoint where numerous women's clothing and underwear was found. The video even shows it. He said he'd never seen anything like it, and that it was very odd. As far as I can tell, there could only be two possible explanations, since inviting wives to a conflict and forcing them to leave with less of their clothing doesn't make sense.

1. The amusing explanation: these rebels have a bizarre way of partying and keeping themselves entertained.

2. The un-amusing explanation: local women have been raped and/or murdered by the rebels, and we should expect to find some more mass graves, like in Sloviansk.
 
#3,850
#3,850
volprof said:
Also, on the latest installment of "Russian Roulette" over at Vice, Simon Ostrovsky is embedded with a forward unit of Ukrainian soldiers moving towards Donetsk as rebels were retreating. According to Ostrovsky, the men claimed some rebel checkpoints that had been abandoned just that very morning of the recording. On site, Ostrovsky shows one particular checkpoint where numerous women's clothing and underwear was found. The video even shows it. He said he'd never seen anything like it, and that it was very odd. As far as I can tell, there could only be two possible explanations, since inviting wives to a conflict and forcing them to leave with less of their clothing doesn't make sense.

1. The amusing explanation: these rebels have a bizarre way of partying and keeping themselves entertained.

2. The un-amusing explanation: local women have been raped and/or murdered by the rebels, and we should expect to find some more mass graves, like in Sloviansk.
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I saw that as well and thought of the worst possible scenario, your #2. Hopefully it's nothing like that.

Also, here's the video I was speaking about. I know you can't take every ones word for it, but still very interesting to see the divide and hear the speculation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k0t2eUqv3w&list=UUZaT_X_mc0BI-djXOlfhqWQ
 
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