Zook vs Shannon

#1

volsgrad89

Let the mediocrity end!!!
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#1
Ok, I searched for a similar thread by searching and looking at the first few pages of threads lately. Please merge this if necessary.

Zook had a big hand in recruiting about 70% of UF's 2006 NC team. The players on the depth chart in black and underlined were recruited when Zook was there. The ones in blue were Spurrier's. The ones in dark orange were Urban's. I couldn't find the ones in green, jucos or I overlooked. Attached is the depth chart.

I think Zook would be a better recruiter NATIONALLY. I think his D would be better. I also think he would be at UT much longer.
 

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#3
#3
Shannon would be the better PR option but I'm not convinced there's a huge difference between the two.
 
#6
#6
Shannon would be the better PR option but I'm not convinced there's a huge difference between the two.

This. I think if a week ago SBV and stopit were on here saying Zook instead of shannon, I think that the zook hire would be thought of much more highly here than it is now. I still think Bennett could be the best hire if we could get a linebackers coach to go with him that is an excellent recruiter. Recruiting is his weakness, but I think CTJ, CLT, and an excellent recruiting linebackers coach could more than make up for his deficiencies.
 
#7
#7
This. I think if a week ago SBV and stopit were on here saying Zook instead of shannon, I think that the zook hire would be thought of much more highly here than it is now. I still think Bennett could be the best hire if we could get a linebackers coach to go with him that is an excellent recruiter. Recruiting is his weakness, but I think CTJ, CLT, and an excellent recruiting linebackers coach could more than make up for his deficiencies.
flip that

RS not Zook
 
#10
#10
This. I think if a week ago SBV and stopit were on here saying Zook instead of shannon, I think that the zook hire would be thought of much more highly here than it is now. I still think Bennett could be the best hire if we could get a linebackers coach to go with him that is an excellent recruiter. Recruiting is his weakness, but I think CTJ, CLT, and an excellent recruiting linebackers coach could more than make up for his deficiencies.

Not even close.A Bennett hire would be a disaster.You could kiss Santos,Mcneil good bye and probably more.If Dooley doesnt bring in a big name then hes done.I think Tn is at 20th in recruiting right now and if Dooley brings in a Spangler,Bennett type DC then this recruiting class will fall apart.
 
#11
#11
Not even close.A Bennett hire would be a disaster.You could kiss Santos,Mcneil good bye and probably more.If Dooley doesnt bring in a big name then hes done.I think Tn is at 20th in recruiting right now and if Dooley brings in a Spangler,Bennett type DC then this recruiting class will fall apart.

Bennett has a good resume out side of this year

have to disagree.
 
#12
#12
Not even close.A Bennett hire would be a disaster.You could kiss Santos,Mcneil good bye and probably more.If Dooley doesnt bring in a big name then hes done.I think Tn is at 20th in recruiting right now and if Dooley brings in a Spangler,Bennett type DC then this recruiting class will fall apart.

False, just because somebody is not the biggest name does not mean that they are the best hire. With Bennett we would be getting a coach that has succeded at multiple places, and therefore know that it was not just because of the fact that even a blind squirell can find an acorn every once in a while or due to the talent pool in miami. Also, if you go back and look through interviews while santos and mcneil may not have been high on baylor, they did speak highly of bennett. Santos speaks particularly highly of Jim Gush who has followed bennett around and would possibly come with him. While Bennett would not be met with the same reception from the public as Shannon, it would be met well with recruits who actually have the intelligence to sit down and look at his resume.
 
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#15
#15
Zook or Shannon would be fine with me and upgrades to Wilcox IMO.....not sure why anyone would ***** about either?
 
#16
#16
Zook or Shannon would be fine with me and upgrades to Wilcox IMO.....not sure why anyone would ***** about either?

I will accept and support any coach h that Dooley is able to get. One has to look at ability to coach as well as how they would fit in with the staff, how well they can recruit, and how much stability they will bring to the program.
 
#17
#17
Iirc, Zook was promoted from DC to HC when spurrier left, so may have had a big hand in some of the highlighted players that are colorcoded as Spurrier.

Not sure who i want as DC. i am starting to agree with some of the people on here that just want one already, & one that wouldn't make recruits leave.

After a quick google, clearly I did not recall correctly.
 
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#18
#18
False, just because somebody is not the biggest name does not mean that they are the best hire. With Bennett we would be getting a coach that has succeded at multiple places, and therefore know that it was not just because of the fact that even a blind squirell can find an acorn every once in a while or due to the talent pool in miami. Also, if you go back and look through interviews while santos and mcneil may not have been high on baylor, they did speak highly of bennett. Santos speaks particularly highly of Jim Gush who has followed bennett around and would possibly come with him. While Bennett would not be met with the same reception from the public as Shannon, it would be met well with recruits who actually have the intelligence to sit down and look at his resume.
wait, are you saying Bennett from Baylor? The same Baylor that didn't have the most stellar D this year? Didn't the announcers at their bowl game say they gave up an average 30 points and would just have to outscore them?
 
#19
#19
Zuck Fook, Why would he even be considered here?
I for one have not forgotten how he tried to screw UT
with the Fax-Gate crap.
No. Absolutey not.
 
#20
#20
Iirc, Zook was promoted from DC to HC when spurrier left, so may have had a big hand in some of the highlighted players that are colorcoded as Spurrier.

Not sure who i want as DC. i am starting to agree with some of the people on here that just want one already, & one that wouldn't make recruits leave.

That's not exactly accurate. Spurrier actualy demoted Zook after 3 years as DC to Special Teams coach in 1994, where he stayed for 2 years.

Then, he was planning on giving him his DC position back in 1996, but Zook took a job as ST coach for the Steelers instead. Then Zook went to the Chiefs. Then he went to the Saints. Then Foley found himself in a bind when Spurrier left, with few options, and regretfully had to offer the job to Zook. It would be a disaster.

He's a proponent of the "prevent defense", which as we're all aware, frequently prevents the team employing it from winning.

As HC, Zook's UF defenses ranked #25 (325.54 ypg) in 2002 (MSU, UGA, LSU, UT, and Bama all had better defenses), #51 (367.46 ypg) in 2003 (Bama, Arkansas, FSU, UT, AU, UGA, and LSU all had better), and #42 (345.58 ypg) in 2004 (USCar, UGA, FSU, AU, LSU, and Bama all had better).

He never had a defense that held opponents under a 325 yards a game average for a season as UF HC. Since Zook, we had defenses that were ranked #9 in 2005 (299.83 ypg), #6 in 2006 (255.43 ypg), #41 in 2007 (361.85 ypg), #9 in 2008 (285.29), #4 in 2009 (252.57 ypg), #9 in 2010 (306.54 ypg), and #8 in 2011 (299.54 ypg).

He had what appears to be a pretty decent defense at Illinois this year; of course you have to take their schedule into account and determine that it's similar to an SEC schedule to make a true comparison.

He didn't beat a single ranked opponent at the Swamp during his 3 years at UF; and lost more games there in his 3 years than Spurrier had in 12.

His recruiting stank up the place, too. Yes, he'd get good classes; but he always went after just the highest ranked kids whether or not we needed guys at that position; and consequently, he ignored positions of need quite frequently... so we'd end up with several great backs or receivers, and nobody to block for them.

Meyer won in spite of Zook's efforts, not because of them; in fact, Meyer ended up dismissing quite a few of the players Zook had recruited before the season even started because they were disciplinary problems and accustomed to being lazy.

I can't say if I'd rather have the guy with the seedy background or the failure background; but neither option sounds ideal. This is one I'd vote "None of the above"; as Florida fans have a great deal of insight on both guys.
 
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#22
#22
That's not exactly accurate. Spurrier actualy demoted Zook after 3 years as DC to Special Teams coach in 1994, where he stayed for 2 years.

Then, he was planning on giving him his DC position back in 1996, but Zook took a job as ST coach for the Steelers instead. Then Zook went to the Chiefs. Then he went to the Saints. Then Foley found himself in a bind when Spurrier left, with few options, and regretfully had to offer the job to Zook. It would be a disaster.

He's a proponent of the "prevent defense", which as we're all aware, frequently prevents the team employing it from winning.

As HC, Zook's UF defenses ranked #25 (325.54 ypg) in 2002 (MSU, UGA, LSU, UT, and Bama all had better defenses), #51 (367.46 ypg) in 2003 (Bama, Arkansas, FSU, UT, AU, UGA, and LSU all had better), and #42 (345.58 ypg) in 2004 (USCar, UGA, FSU, AU, LSU, and Bama all had better).

He never had a defense that held opponents under a 325 yards a game average for a season as UF HC. Since Zook, we had defenses that were ranked #9 in 2005 (299.83 ypg), #6 in 2006 (255.43 ypg), #41 in 2007 (361.85 ypg), #9 in 2008 (285.29), #4 in 2009 (252.57 ypg), #9 in 2010 (306.54 ypg), and #8 in 2011 (299.54 ypg).

He had what appears to be a pretty decent defense at Illinois this year; of course you have to take their schedule into account and determine that it's similar to an SEC schedule to make a true comparison.

He didn't beat a single ranked opponent at the Swamp during his 3 years at UF; and lost more games there in his 3 years than Spurrier had in 12.

His recruiting stank up the place, too. Yes, he'd get good classes; but he always went after just the highest ranked kids whether or not we needed guys at that position; and consequently, he ignored positions of need quite frequently... so we'd end up with several great backs or receivers, and nobody to block for them.

Meyer won in spite of Zook's efforts, not because of them; in fact, Meyer ended up dismissing quite a few of the players Zook had recruited before the season even started because they were disciplinary problems and accustomed to being lazy.

I can't say if I'd rather have the guy with the seedy background or the failure background; but neither option sounds ideal. This is one I'd vote "None of the above"; as Florida fans have a great deal of insight on both guys.
Hmmm....Last I checked Charlie Strong was DC during that time and he isn't considered that bad a DC. Zook isn't that bad as a DC; he just sucks as a HC. I would take Shannon over Zook but I would take Zook over Spangler.
 
#23
#23
That's not exactly accurate. Spurrier actualy demoted Zook after 3 years as DC to Special Teams coach in 1994, where he stayed for 2 years.

Then, he was planning on giving him his DC position back in 1996, but Zook took a job as ST coach for the Steelers instead. Then Zook went to the Chiefs. Then he went to the Saints. Then Foley found himself in a bind when Spurrier left, with few options, and regretfully had to offer the job to Zook. It would be a disaster.

He's a proponent of the "prevent defense", which as we're all aware, frequently prevents the team employing it from winning.

As HC, Zook's UF defenses ranked #25 (325.54 ypg) in 2002 (MSU, UGA, LSU, UT, and Bama all had better defenses), #51 (367.46 ypg) in 2003 (Bama, Arkansas, FSU, UT, AU, UGA, and LSU all had better), and #42 (345.58 ypg) in 2004 (USCar, UGA, FSU, AU, LSU, and Bama all had better).

He never had a defense that held opponents under a 325 yards a game average for a season as UF HC. Since Zook, we had defenses that were ranked #9 in 2005 (299.83 ypg), #6 in 2006 (255.43 ypg), #41 in 2007 (361.85 ypg), #9 in 2008 (285.29), #4 in 2009 (252.57 ypg), #9 in 2010 (306.54 ypg), and #8 in 2011 (299.54 ypg).

He had what appears to be a pretty decent defense at Illinois this year; of course you have to take their schedule into account and determine that it's similar to an SEC schedule to make a true comparison.

He didn't beat a single ranked opponent at the Swamp during his 3 years at UF; and lost more games there in his 3 years than Spurrier had in 12.

His recruiting stank up the place, too. Yes, he'd get good classes; but he always went after just the highest ranked kids whether or not we needed guys at that position; and consequently, he ignored positions of need quite frequently... so we'd end up with several great backs or receivers, and nobody to block for them.

Meyer won in spite of Zook's efforts, not because of them; in fact, Meyer ended up dismissing quite a few of the players Zook had recruited before the season even started because they were disciplinary problems and accustomed to being lazy.

I can't say if I'd rather have the guy with the seedy background or the failure background; but neither option sounds ideal. This is one I'd vote "None of the above"; as Florida fans have a great deal of insight on both guys.

Yeah, I was def incorrect. He was DC in the 90's a couple times. Thanks for the insight. I wrote that post from my phone before I looked it up to confirm.
 
#24
#24
wait, are you saying Bennett from Baylor? The same Baylor that didn't have the most stellar D this year? Didn't the announcers at their bowl game say they gave up an average 30 points and would just have to outscore them?

Wait are you seriously dumb enough to judge a guys coaching ability based on his first year with a team? The guy has been coaching since the eighties, there is a lot more to his resume then last season. Did you look at what he did at kansas state? Or how about Pittsburgh? Did you know that the defense improved every year under him at pittsburgh and in his last year had a top 15 defense at pitt? Try again.
 
#25
#25
Hmmm....Last I checked Charlie Strong was DC during that time and he isn't considered that bad a DC. Zook isn't that bad as a DC; he just sucks as a HC. I would take Shannon over Zook but I would take Zook over Spangler.

Bob Stoops was our DC in '96, '97, and '98. Strong was the DC when Zook was the head coach, but I'm sure I'm not telling anybody anything when I say that the coordinators run offenses and employ the defenses the way the head coach tells them to.

So, I'm not sure how much freedom Strong had to run the show with a defensive guy (Zook) as HC. I know once Zook was gone and Strong had more freedom, as I illustrated, our defenses started resuming their place in the top 10 every year.

I don't know much about UT's other candidates, so I can't judge where they're concerned.
 

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