Zone Defense

#26

cardvolfan

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#26
You need to have an emergency zone defense at least. Sometimes its just needed for various reasons.
To me it’s like a hard throwing pitcher. If they know what’s coming every time, they can attack a fast ball with success. When there is an off speed pitching, it gets them off track. I’m an advocate of the zone for that reason alone,
 
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#27

Vol8188

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#27
Just wondered everyone's thoughts on playing some sort of zone defense. Barnes rarely uses it, guys like Devoe and Knight never used it, and Pearl used it sporadically in certain situations. This is not a critique of Barnes, but would it be a pro or a con for this particular Tennessee basketball team?
when the other team goes 8/11 from behind the arc, zone is a bad move. Sometimes you just gotta take it on the chin
 
#28

lostsheep

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#28
IMO, we give up a lot of looks because we're getting beat off the dribble and having to collapse to help. While I do think a zone can help in that it at the least makes the other team take up practice time on their zone offense, I think we'd still have the same issue (meaning once penetration happens via dribble or pass then the zone is going to collapse and create open looks).
Again, JMO, so TIFWIW!
 
#31

Vol8188

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#31
So, they would have been 11-11 behind the arc if they had been in a zone?
The key to beating zone is to shoot the other team out of the zone. Against a team that’s hot from behind the line, it’s not a good move. Am I saying they’d go 11/11? Unlikely. But is it going to help with your perimeter D? No. It’s going to make it worse.
 
#33

ColinS

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#33
when the other team goes 8/11 from behind the arc, zone is a bad move. Sometimes you just gotta take it on the chin
A zone could stop the drives to the basket. Most of these modern day offenses rely on drive and kick outs that create open looks. I guess what I'm saying is zones are not necessarily gonna allow more open looks from three. It depends on style of play. I remember the old Temple matchup zone would completely shut down a three point offense.
 
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#34
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#34
15 minutes a week?

Wow it ain’t that easy. If that’s all the time you want to dedicate to you are wasting your time
How much practice time are coaches allowed with their players? 4 or 5 hours are needed for games, maybe more depending on when the clock starts. 15 minutes a week would be about 3 hours by tournament time.
 
#35

VolZen

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#35
I would like to see an extended match up zone on occasion. A 2-2-1 press is basically an extended zone with added pressure.

A zone is excellent if for no other reason to break the flow of what rhythm the other team has on offense. Against Bama that would have stopped penetration and at least changed defense rotation enough that would cause them to second guess what they were doing. Extend the zone to take away the 3, make them prove they can beat you from the midrange.

I am a firm believer in m2m, but every now and then you have throw a change up pitch. Basketball is a game of runs and at the proper moment a zone can break an opponent’s run.
 
#39

therickbol

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#39
To start with, our scheme on defense results in giving us some of the same qualities of a zone. We packline all the gaps. We aggressively attack the ball out of helpside on drives to the basket. And then coming out of help we rotate to the next pass with the closest defender which results in lots of switching when we are forced to rotate into help. So in either case in requires two things, or it doesn't matter if we are M2M or zone, on-ball defender must guard his man and gap defender must stop penetration before they get deep enough to force our help side to rotate over. We had been doing both of those things really well all season. We did both of those things very poorly vs Alabama. We also gave up a few too many open shots due to poor transition defense.

As to the basic question of playing M2M or Zone or having both, in football the saying is if you use 2 QB's then you don't have a good QB. Not completely analogous but it correlates fairly well. I have always schemed my team defense based on personnel. I prefer M2M and will use it any time I have the personnel to run it. But, I had a team one season that played exclusively in an extended, pressure half court 1-3-1 defense. And we were really good at it. But to be that good at it consumed lots of practice time and just the preprogrammed habits of the players. So when you think about also playing another defensive scheme there is a cost. Practice time and player habits. Players now have to think more when you change to that other defensive scheme (2-3 zone for instance). They now play slower. And your primary defensive scheme suffers as they lose practice reps and habits suffer slightly. I am not saying you completely disregard it. But it's best used as a 'trick play' meaning you only use it situationally and very briefly. Otherwise, IMO, the cost will outweigh the benefit if you try to run both extensively.
 
#42

cardvolfan

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#42
Not true. Game days count as so many hours. I think 3 hours. The walk thru practice that day doesn’t count I am nearly Certain
Not true. Game days count as so many hours. I think 3 hours. The walk thru practice that day doesn’t count I am nearly Certain
Not true. Game days count as so many hours. I think 3 hours. The walk thru practice that day doesn’t count I am nearly Certain
Not true. Game days count as so many hours. I think 3 hours. The walk thru practice that day doesn’t count I am nearly Certain
Not true. Game days count as so many hours. I think 3 hours. The walk thru practice that day doesn’t count I am nearly Certain
I looked it up on the NCAA website. Maybe they don’t know what they’re doing.
 
#43

cardvolfan

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#43
To start with, our scheme on defense results in giving us some of the same qualities of a zone. We packline all the gaps. We aggressively attack the ball out of helpside on drives to the basket. And then coming out of help we rotate to the next pass with the closest defender which results in lots of switching when we are forced to rotate into help. So in either case in requires two things, or it doesn't matter if we are M2M or zone, on-ball defender must guard his man and gap defender must stop penetration before they get deep enough to force our help side to rotate over. We had been doing both of those things really well all season. We did both of those things very poorly vs Alabama. We also gave up a few too many open shots due to poor transition defense.

As to the basic question of playing M2M or Zone or having both, in football the saying is if you use 2 QB's then you don't have a good QB. Not completely analogous but it correlates fairly well. I have always schemed my team defense based on personnel. I prefer M2M and will use it any time I have the personnel to run it. But, I had a team one season that played exclusively in an extended, pressure half court 1-3-1 defense. And we were really good at it. But to be that good at it consumed lots of practice time and just the preprogrammed habits of the players. So when you think about also playing another defensive scheme there is a cost. Practice time and player habits. Players now have to think more when you change to that other defensive scheme (2-3 zone for instance). They now play slower. And your primary defensive scheme suffers as they lose practice reps and habits suffer slightly. I am not saying you completely disregard it. But it's best used as a 'trick play' meaning you only use it situationally and very briefly. Otherwise, IMO, the cost will outweigh the benefit if you try to run both extensively.
Good stuff. All good points. I think what you’re saying towards the end is use it to confuse the other team to disrupt their timing, etc. if the slider is your “out” pitch use it often, but don’t be afraid to throw a fastball on the inside part of the plate.
 
#44

BruinVol

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#44
I looked it up on the NCAA website. Maybe they don’t know what they’re doing.
Link it please. I can assure you gameday counts toward the hours. If it didn’t there would be no reason for hours.


It’s 20 hours a week with a maximum of 4 hours a day with 1 day being off.

so if game day didn’t count the 20 hours wouldn’t matter during game weeks
 
#46

Volfan2012

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#46
Just wondered everyone's thoughts on playing some sort of zone defense. Barnes rarely uses it, guys like Devoe and Knight never used it, and Pearl used it sporadically in certain situations. This is not a critique of Barnes, but would it be a pro or a con for this particular Tennessee basketball team?
A matchup zone might give them some problems if we could control the drives to the basket.
 
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#47

cardvolfan

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#47
@cardvolfan Should I post this directly from the ncaa website 5-6-maybe 7 times to make a point????
Bruin, I have no idea why my quote from you posted that many times. I didn’t do it intentionally. I swear I’ve never seen anyone so argumentative and obsessed to be right. Maybe as you get older, you won’t feel the need to argue to the point of exhaustion. I have no desire to be right and was just quoting what I legitimately read. If you’re correct, then I don’t care. I just want the correct information out there.
 
#49

BruinVol

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#49
Bruin, I have no idea why my quote from you posted that many times. I didn’t do it intentionally. I swear I’ve never seen anyone so argumentative and obsessed to be right. Maybe as you get older, you won’t feel the need to argue to the point of exhaustion. I have no desire to be right and was just quoting what I legitimately read. If you’re correct, then I don’t care. I just want the correct information out there.
I thought that was done on purpose.
My apologies


The pic I attached shows us the correct info


Which I had already said 😎
 

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