Zakai Ziegler won’t be the starting PG

#31

CAVPUT

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#31
We're in trouble if Key is starting at PG. SV having to take back over PG responsibilities takes away his best asset as an off-ball guard.

Won't be surprised if Edwards ends up getting the nod.
Disagree. Key won't dazzle with athleticism, but the guy is smart and finds a way. He might turn out to be the top transfer taken in the Barnes era. I think he'll surprise a lot of people.
 
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#33

johnfnkelly

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#33
What’s the difference in Zeigler coming off the bench and playing 32mpg at PG or starting the game and playing 32mpg at PG? Either way 8mpg are going to someone else at PG…
Why would we intentionally start every game at a disadvantage with our best point guard on the bench? Makes 0 sense.

If CRB is confident in who he has to start off games then I'll hope for the best but I don't see it.

Your lead point guard is the QB of the team - he should be starting and leading the offense from the get-go.
 
#34

johnfnkelly

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#34
There were moments last season in pressuring situations where the only player I was confident could bring the ball up without turning it over was Chandler.

Before him it was Turner.

I don't 100% trust anybody on this roster right now, though I think Zakai is the most capable. Beginning the game without that kind of player just doesn't make sense.

If we can't fully find an identity at point guard then it'll turn into a glaring weakness by March.
 
#35

Thunder Good-Oil

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#35
Why would we intentionally start every game at a disadvantage with our best point guard on the bench? Makes 0 sense.

If CRB is confident in who he has to start off games then I'll hope for the best but I don't see it.

Your lead point guard is the QB of the team - he should be starting and leading the offense from the get-go.
He presents a size disadvantage. Could start off with him on the bench and see how things go without him. Opponents might have game plans to exploit a size advantage versus ZZ. So insert him a few minutes later. He isn’t going to play 40 minutes anyway.
 
#36

johnfnkelly

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#36
He presents a size disadvantage. Could start off with him on the bench and see how things go without him. Opponents might have game plans to exploit a size advantage versus ZZ. So insert him a few minutes later. He isn’t going to play 40 minutes anyway.
So that means to start an off-ball wing with a career 1.7 assist/ 1.6 TO ratio at point? That just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't trust Key to initiate the offense and take care of the ball. Sharing those responsibilities with Vescovi negates a lot what made SV so good last season.
 
#37

bleedingTNorange

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#37
Why would we intentionally start every game at a disadvantage with our best point guard on the bench? Makes 0 sense.

If CRB is confident in who he has to start off games then I'll hope for the best but I don't see it.

Your lead point guard is the QB of the team - he should be starting and leading the offense from the get-go.
We never started our “best 5” last year, however we went to it quickly and most games it was the group who played the final 10-15 minutes. Plav was starting over Fulk last year, however Fulk was the better player and played more minutes.
 
#38

Thunder Good-Oil

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#38
So that means to start an off-ball wing with a career 1.7 assist/ 1.6 TO ratio at point? That just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't trust Key to initiate the offense and take care of the ball. Sharing those responsibilities with Vescovi negates a lot what made SV so good last season.
I think that since JJJ and Vescovi have both played PG and if Key is in the starting lineup as well TN won’t struggle with defensive pressure. Somebody will have to fill in a few minutes anyway. ZZ needs to be on the floor at the end of the game.
 
#39

bleedingTNorange

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#39
So that means to start an off-ball wing with a career 1.7 assist/ 1.6 TO ratio at point? That just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I don't trust Key to initiate the offense and take care of the ball. Sharing those responsibilities with Vescovi negates a lot what made SV so good last season.
As someone else said, Barnes isn’t going to go with someone who hamstrings us just to not start Zeigler…if he is starting Key at PG it’s because he’s shown enough in practice and Barnes has confidence in him.
 
#40

johnfnkelly

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#40
We never started our “best 5” last year, however we went to it quickly and most games it was the group who played the final 10-15 minutes. Plav was starting over Fulk last year, however Fulk was the better player and played more minutes.
Fulk sitting for Plav is considerably different when neither are responsible for controlling the offense.

We didn't lose much to begin games with Plav starting considering how underwhelming Fulk became during conf play.
 
#41

johnfnkelly

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#41
I think that since JJJ and Vescovi have both played PG and if Key is in the starting lineup as well TN won’t struggle with defensive pressure. Somebody will have to fill in a few minutes anyway. ZZ needs to be on the floor at the end of the game.
I think you need rewatch some JJJ film playing point, along with SV. Both are solid off-ball but Josiah isn't a strong ball handler and SV struggles going strong with his right. We will be eaten alive.

Having a player like KC last year was such a luxury. I don't think people will realize how much we relied on his ball control till this season. Similar to how the season with Turner getting hurt played out.

Somebody needs to step up and I don't see it being Key based off his statistics and film.
 
#42

bleedingTNorange

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#42
Fulk sitting for Plav is considerably different when neither are responsible for controlling the offense.

We didn't lose much to begin games with Plav starting considering how underwhelming Fulk became during conf play.
And like I said I doubt Barnes will purposely hamstring the team, if he feels Zeigler needs to start he will start…if he feels Key can hold it down for the first 3-4 minutes then he will explore that option as well. If Zeigler feels better coming off the bench and the team is better as a result then I’m not sure there’s much argument to be made, I don’t think we are likely to lose games because of a 8-3 start to a ball game.
 
#43

therickbol

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#43
Why would we intentionally start every game at a disadvantage with our best point guard on the bench? Makes 0 sense.

If CRB is confident in who he has to start off games then I'll hope for the best but I don't see it.

Your lead point guard is the QB of the team - he should be starting and leading the offense from the get-go.
Do buckets in the first few minutes of the games come with type of multiplier or something? I don't understand how this gets twisted into something that is complicated. It is really not. ZZ will not play 40 minutes. If the minutes he is not out there are the first few minutes of the game it is no different than if he starts and then comes out of the game. Some players are more comfortable or just perform better if they do not start. In a close game, your best players are on the court at the end of the game. I can assure you ZZ will be playing PG down the stretch in a close game. Key certainly has some of the qualities that a PG needs. His quickness could be what causes him issues at the PG position but otherwise he has many of the tools needed. I guess we also need to understand the different role of the "PG" based on who is playing the position. We can run our halfcourt set and the ball move and be in the hands of all 5 players and create open looks with our screens and cuts. That is where we will get halfcourt offense without ZZ on the court. When ZZ is playing PG we will see more offense created by spacing, iso and dribble penetration that creates for ZZ or forces the defense into closeouts and rotations.
 
#44

Thunder Good-Oil

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#44
The refs also have to settle in most of the time. It seems like they often call fouls at a higher rate in the first few minutes. At least it seems like they sent Grant and Admiral and Fulk to the bench a lot. PG is one area that we don’t need to be getting into foul trouble. We are deeper at other spots. We need ZZ to play north of 32/34 minutes. Under 20 wouldn’t be good at all.
 
#45

VolArmy74

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#45
I think you need rewatch some JJJ film playing point, along with SV. Both are solid off-ball but Josiah isn't a strong ball handler and SV struggles going strong with his right. We will be eaten alive.

Having a player like KC last year was such a luxury. I don't think people will realize how much we relied on his ball control till this season. Similar to how the season with Turner getting hurt played out.

Somebody needs to step up and I don't see it being Key based off his statistics and film.
It is what it is at this point. There's a reason they were hard on several PGs in the transfer portal. Sucks that we didn't get them but we will have to to PG by committee and hope other areas of the game step forward. Last year PG was a major strength, this year it may be a weakness. Hopefully our post play is better this year.
 
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#46

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#46
I think you need rewatch some JJJ film playing point, along with SV. Both are solid off-ball but Josiah isn't a strong ball handler and SV struggles going strong with his right. We will be eaten alive.

Having a player like KC last year was such a luxury. I don't think people will realize how much we relied on his ball control till this season. Similar to how the season with Turner getting hurt played out.

Somebody needs to step up and I don't see it being Key based off his statistics and film.
Your about 2 years late on the “SV can’t dribble to his right”
 
#47

CNeagleVolFan

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#47
I think Key will be the steal of this class. He will shoot 35% or more from 3, and he will be a serviceable option as a PG. I’d say he could give us between 8-10ppg
 
#48

GUNTERSVOL

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#48
We're in trouble if Key is starting at PG. SV having to take back over PG responsibilities takes away his best asset as an off-ball guard.

Won't be surprised if Edwards ends up getting the nod.
Trying to plug and play anyone at the 1 who is not the fastest player on the court is going to change our gameplan. Guessing Coach has encountered maximizing game flow without such an asset in the past and will have different PLANS to deal with different combinations of players on the floor. My guess is the number of guys laying back in transition as outlets, rather than streaking up the floor trying to create passing lanes will change when the speed and handle abilities of the primary ball handler are not as strong. The speed differential of especially our 3-5 guys will be key in taking defenders out of ball pressure defense in our early transition.

It will be interesting to see if any of our ball handlers were tasked with increasing skill sets related to roles of the point. Minutes created by doing so might have motivated them. Not a lot of motivation with KC around last year. I will believe it is an unaddressed and un-solutioned problem when I see it. Especially on dead ball length of the floor to go plays. Having guys like JJJ at the 3 and Santi at the 2 can help when you don't have a KC type around, and that is the COMMITTEE that I believe Coach has referred to. They don't have to be plug and play 1's to keep us in offensive flow. Betting it has been on the list of things to do. Press breaking and pressure FT work for sure.
 
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#50

CAVPUT

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#50
He can play a lot of positions well, but I don't think PG is one of them. I think Edwards will be a four year player and likely start his second year.
By all accounts, he's off to a solid start with Barnes. Tough kid and is in great shape although we all know he'll hit the wall at some point this year like all freshmen do. Still, I'm intrigued by him. His body style and how he plays reminds me of a kid that Michigan State had some time ago. Can't remember his name, but he was a thicker PG and not lightning quick, but tough and a leader. I'm hoping Barnes feeds him all the minutes he can handle early in the season. Kid doesn't strike me as the fragile type who would lose confidence if you tossed him in the deep end so I'd put him out there and see how he battles. I'm not saying he'll start, but if he can provide minutes and allow both Key and Vescovi to play off the ball, it would be a real boost.
 
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