Youth and Inexperience

#1
U

utvols74

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#1
...sometimes these are reasons for losses. But how does one explain Ohio State (with youth and inexperience) against Oklahoma? OSU left Norman with a "W".

QB - Jr
RB - Fr
LT - Jr
LG - Fr
C - Sr
RG - Jr
RT - So
WRx - So
WR - Sr
WRz - So

I'm not an Ohio State fan and hate everything Big 10, but I'm tired of waiting for players to mature and the "big year" under Jones ('16) and seeing what we've seen thus far.
 
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#4
#4
Coaching. Hate Urban Meyer all you want but he develops top talent and makes it elite. I'm not completely falling off the Butchwagon yet, but so far I haven't seen much development occuring.
 
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#7
#7
Seems like every time someone makes a comparison, it's against Meyer or Saban.
Well guess what, there's about 125 other teams besides us, doing the same thing.
 
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#8
#8
While I think Meyer is a fraud of a human being, he is an expert at recruiting the type of guys that fit his system, and that system is pretty solid.
 
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#9
#9
utvols74 said:
...sometimes these are reasons for losses. But how does one explain Ohio State (with youth and inexperience) against Oklahoma? OSU left Norman with a "W".

QB - Jr
RB - Fr
LT - Jr
LG - Fr
C - Sr
RG - Jr
RT - So
WRx - So
WR - Sr
WRz - So

I'm not an Ohio State fan and hate everything Big 10, but I'm tired of waiting for players to mature and the "big year" under Jones ('16) and seeing what we've seen thus far.
Click to expand...

Because Urban Meyer is an incredible coach. Everybody here hates to hear that but it is absolutely true. Saban and Meyer are in a class by themselves as far as how they are able to recruit, lose great players to the NFL, then just reload like it is nothing. That really is the ultimate sign of how good a head coach and manager of your entire football program you are.

I was reading some Oklahoma media after the Ohio State game and some columnist pointed out that Oklahoma lost several key players from last year's team (Tapper, Sanchez, Shepard, etc.) and had been highly overrated in the preseason because they brought back a good QB and 2 good RBs, which was what everybody focused on.

A commenter to the article rightly pointed out that Ohio State had several new guys in a variety of positions and actually lost more guys to the NFL than Oklahoma did, yet it didn't seem to matter. That is the difference between a good team and a great team.
 
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#11
#11
utvols74 said:
...sometimes these are reasons for losses. But how does one explain Ohio State (with youth and inexperience) against Oklahoma? OSU left Norman with a "W".

QB - Jr
RB - Fr
LT - Jr
LG - Fr
C - Sr
RG - Jr
RT - So
WRx - So
WR - Sr
WRz - So

I'm not an Ohio State fan and hate everything Big 10, but I'm tired of waiting for players to mature and the "big year" under Jones ('16) and seeing what we've seen thus far.
Click to expand...

It was never as valid of an excuse as many accepted. tOSU isn't unique. Many teams have proven they can win with young and inexperienced players. When tOSU had their great team a few years ago...they were young.

There ARE some distinct philosophies and schemes that make it easier or more difficult to play young players.

In that respect, it would be kind of good if Jones could simplify at least part of the O so younger players could be more effective.
 
#12
#12
The Orange Pants said:
But there aren't 125 other teams with our talent. That's the issue.
Click to expand...

Try a little context next time.
Many teams have been young or inexperienced with talent, in different years and still don't walk away looking like Meyer does.

He's an elite coach, if you have something to say about that, then say it.
 
#13
#13
sjt18 said:
It was never as valid of an excuse as many accepted. tOSU isn't unique. Many teams have proven they can win with young and inexperienced players. When tOSU had their great team a few years ago...they were young.

There ARE some distinct philosophies and schemes that make it easier or more difficult to play young players.

In that respect, it would be kind of good if Jones could simplify at least part of the O so younger players could be more effective.
Click to expand...

Urban was/is a pioneer of the spread, the entire concept of which is to isolate individual matchups and get people the football in situations where their odds of success are high. It makes it easier on his younger guys because they often have a single, very specific job to do and can just focus on that.

He is a huge reason for the proliferation of that style of offense and the reason pretty much everybody runs it (or some version of it) now. He does that probably better than anyone else.
 
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#15
#15
chargervol said:
Try a little context next time.
Many teams have been young or inexperienced with talent, in different years and still don't walk away looking like Meyer does.

He's an elite coach, if you have something to say about that, then say it.
Click to expand...

Our talent is the same.
Urban is elite. Our coaches are slaw. That's why the teams look differently. Hell, urban won a title with a team of sophomores and all our coach can say is "youf is bad. Can't win yet."
 
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#16
#16
utvols74 said:
...sometimes these are reasons for losses. But how does one explain Ohio State (with youth and inexperience) against Oklahoma? OSU left Norman with a "W".

QB - Jr
RB - Fr
LT - Jr
LG - Fr
C - Sr
RG - Jr
RT - So
WRx - So
WR - Sr
WRz - So

I'm not an Ohio State fan and hate everything Big 10, but I'm tired of waiting for players to mature and the "big year" under Jones ('16) and seeing what we've seen thus far.
Click to expand...

The actual explanation is pretty simple. OSU recruits at as close to Bama level as you can get. Oklahoma is sliding backwards with their recruiting.

It isn't about experience as much as it is talent and ability. If talent and ability are equal, experience can be a deciding factor. If they are unequal, put your money on talent and ability. How much ''experience'' does a football player really get in a couple of years in college that he hasn't already gotten in 10+ years of playing football?

Bottom line: You can coach me up to be reasonable with my technique, and that will make me serviceable against others like me, but you can't make me substantially taller, bigger, faster, stronger, and quicker. Much of those latter criteria are simply genetic markers. They can be maximized, or minimized (as the case may be) but they can't be ignored.
 
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#17
#17
Butch's problem in my opinion is he has a "chart" or a system for everthing and every player, and if it don't fit into his process he has no idea how to improv in gametime situations therefore get out coached. His offense has done him good thus far where he has been so he will stick to it and hope the results get better.
 
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#18
#18
The Orange Pants said:
Our talent is the same.
Urban is elite. Our coaches are slaw. That's why the teams look differently. Hell, urban won a title with a team of sophomores and all our coach can say is "youf is bad. Can't win yet."
Click to expand...

As long as I understand what you're doing.

The obvious answer is because Meyer is elite, but you're not as much worried about the question as just bashing.

The fact that there was nothing in my post saying Butch did a good job, is not going to slow you down one bit is it? Yeah, that's what I thought.

I think there's a what's for dinner thread too, maybe you should go over there and randomly pick a post to moan about also. Obviously your rants don't have to relate to what's actually said what so ever.
 
#19
#19
chargervol said:
As long as I understand what you're doing.

The obvious answer is because Meyer is elite, but you're not as much worried about the question as just bashing.

The fact that there was nothing in my post saying Butch did a good job, is not going to slow you down one bit is it? Yeah, that's what I thought.

I think there's a what's for dinner thread too, maybe you should go over there and randomly pick a post to moan about also. Obviously your rants don't have to relate to what's actually said what so ever.
Click to expand...

I answered the question. Further, I pointed out why it's reasonable for Tennessee to make comparisons to Saban and Meyer. I've been on topic. You're just upset. I understand though. It's Monday.
 
#20
#20
I can say why but I don't like saying because it will start the negavols. 5 stars can step in immediately. 3 stars have to be built up. Urban wins everywhere he goes but he goes places where he is the guy in control of recruiting in recruiting hotbeds.
 
#21
#21
The Orange Pants said:
I answered the question. Further, I pointed out why it's reasonable for Tennessee to make comparisons to Saban and Meyer. I've been on topic. You're just upset. I understand though. It's Monday.
Click to expand...

The op asked the question, you quoted me.
I said the reason was because Meyer is an elite coach. That's the difference between him and other programs including us.
Nothing I said was short of calling Meyer a better coach, yet you grab my post to go on one of your dumbazz rants.
 
#25
#25
I don't think it is talent at all ! UT is talented across the board this year. As talented as any team out there. We have extremely poor development and even worse play calling / coaching. I see Jones as nothing more than a figure head / recruiter, so he needs to get top notch coordinators which we have yet to do. Read my posts, I dislike having Debord. no secret I think he is the cause of all our woes. He is not an OC and not a QB coach. Expecting development of Dobbs or others that way is an exercise in ineptitude.
 
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