Your HOF Ballot

#1
zjcvols

zjcvols

"On a Tennessee Saturday night."
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#1
Mine:

Jack Morris
Tim Raines
Dale Murphy
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Jeff Bagwell
 
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#2
#2
I've went back and forth on McGwire 100 times.
 
#3
#3
Also, Trammell and McGriff were tough omissions.
 
#9
#9
The problem I have with roids players is what if I was a clean player in that era? I know it's wrong, illegal, etc.. and choose not to do it, knowing my colleagues are, that I'm probably losing money, maybe I don't make the team, and I'll never be held in as high regards as I should, etc.. That's tremendously hard, but because I'm an exceptional guy, I do it anyways.

I can't reward the guys who ruined it. Maybe Bernie Williams is a HOFer without playing with roiders, and being pitched to by roiders.
 
#10
#10
Weezy said:
The problem I have with roids players is what if I was a clean player in that era? I know it's wrong, illegal, etc.. and choose not to do it, knowing my colleagues are, that I'm probably losing money, maybe I don't make the team, and I'll never be held in as high regards as I should, etc.. That's tremendously hard, but because I'm an exceptional guy, I do it anyways.

I can't reward the guys who ruined it. Maybe Bernie Williams is a HOFer without playing with roiders, and being pitched to by roiders.
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Or maybe Bernie Williams took roids.

We don't know. That's the problem. If you believe some estimates by players, up to 75% were taking roids.

At that point, I make the assumption everyone used. Is that incorrect? Of course. You can blame the Commish and MLBPA for not doing anything about it.
 
#12
#12
zjcvols said:
Or maybe Bernie Williams took roids.

We don't know. That's the problem. If you believe some estimates by players, up to 75% were taking roids.

At that point, I make the assumption everyone used. Is that incorrect? Of course. You can blame the Commish and MLBPA for not doing anything about it.
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I agree, there it gets tough. At that point, I'd rather have the voters use intuition, rather than allow the "known" or even the presumed users in the HOF.

Basically, I agree with Verducci except I wouldn't vote for Bagwell.

Why I'll never vote for a known steroids user for the Hall of Fame - MLB - Tom Verducci - SI.com
 
#14
#14
005 said:
why wouldn't you vote bagwell
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I try to be fair. Speculation alone is dangerous. I'll use Jeff Bagwell as an example. He's a guy I voted for again. But here are some facts about Bagwell: he hired a bodybuilder (later hired by Luis Gonzalez) in 1995 to make him "as big as I can," flexibility be damned; took the steroid precursor andro (as well as supplements such as creatine, HMB, zinc, etc.), underwent a massive body change; maintained a bodybuilder weightlifting regimen; called the whistle-blowing in 2002 by Caminiti "a shame" and the one in 2005 by Jose Canseco "very disappointing . . . whether it's true or not;" promulgated the red herring that drugs don't help baseball players ("Hand-eye coordination is something you can't get from a bottle," he said of his andro use); and as recently as 2010 in an ESPN interview openly endorsed steroid use by anyone from a fringe player ("I have no problem with that") to superstars such as Bonds and McGwire ("I know you took it but it doesn't matter") as well as the HGH use by an injured Andy Pettitte ("That's not a performance enhancer").

Read More: Why I'll never vote for a known steroids user for the Hall of Fame - MLB - Tom Verducci - SI.com
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As a disclaimer, I didn't watch or keep up enough with baseball to be judge and jury for this.
 
#15
#15
I think the hall of fame without a top 5 pitcher and hitter of all time is a ****ing crock.

It's a museum.
 
#17
#17
Even if steroids weren't against said rules (which we don't know about anyways), MLB refused to enforce them. That's MLB's fault.

Also, if Gaylord Perry, who admits to doing everything illegal to a baseball possible, can get in, how come Bonds and Clemens can't get in?

And also, Clemens was acquitted of all charges on his steroid use, including perjury in his testimony to Congress. They said "He was telling the truth" basically. But hey, the rogue trainer says he used, so he must have!
 
#18
#18
Craig Biggio.

He was/is/and always will be my favorite baseball player.

Dad had his #7, and I have mine.
 
#19
#19
Weezy said:
As a disclaimer, I didn't watch or keep up enough with baseball to be judge and jury for this.
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So because Bagwell said Jose Canseco sucks, used legal enhancers, and basically said that steroid users should be allowed in the HOF, means he's a juicer?

Guess I"m a juicer too then.
 
#21
#21
005 said:
I think the hall of fame without a top 5 pitcher and hitter of all time is a ****ing crock.

It's a museum.
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Neither guy would have been close to the top 5 if they'd had a normal, roid-free career arc and not started racking up their best seasons on the back side of their 30s.
 
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#22
#22
Hobock said:
Weezy, can you post the damning evidence against Piazza?
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I didn't mention Piazza, and with the obvious disclaimer I was merely stating how I think the voters should vote. And this isn't a courtroom, this is the HOF, and the voters can use presumptions considering steroids and how easy it is to discern users. Bagwell seems to fit the bill (again, disclaimer, I wasn't huge into baseball during the Roids era). And it looks like the voters agree.

As for Piazza, I google'd it. Don't really care for damning evidence. I'm fine with making presumptions outside the court room. Do it all the time. Also this was his first time on the ballot, not unexpected to miss out.

The most substantial allegations of drug use against Piazza were limited to four paragraphs in a 2010 biography of Clemens by former Sports Illustrated writer Jeff Pearlman. According to Pearlman, Piazza confided to some reporters that he used performance-enhancing substances. Pearlman also quoted two former major league players saying that Piazza’s steroid use was suspected throughout baseball. One of the players was former journeyman Reggie Jefferson; the other was not named.
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Suspicious minds might keep Mike Piazza out of Hall of Fame - latimes.com
 
#24
#24
I honestly don't like generalizing people but if you believe Barry Bonds isn't a HOFer, you are a moron.
 
#25
#25
Weezy said:
I didn't mention Piazza, and with the obvious disclaimer I was merely stating how I think the voters should vote. And this isn't a courtroom, this is the HOF, and the voters can use presumptions considering steroids and how easy it is to discern users. Bagwell seems to fit the bill (again, disclaimer, I wasn't huge into baseball during the Roids era). And it looks like the voters agree.

As for Piazza, I google'd it. Don't really care for damning evidence. I'm fine with making presumptions outside the court room. Do it all the time. Also this was his first time on the ballot, not unexpected to miss out.



Suspicious minds might keep Mike Piazza out of Hall of Fame - latimes.com
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Thanks. Do you think anybody with 3000 hits should be a lock to get in?
 
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