You don't want shannon

#151
#151
Fullfillmer said:
Have another drink Johnny. Charlie is coaching in Kansas. I don't have a problem with him throwing out a word of caution for Vol fans. There are very few sure thing out there. ( Perhaps with the exception of Saban when Ala. went after him. ) so I like the idea of RS but he and his staff will have to recruit great players for him to be successful. What is his reputation as a recruiter? It seems the U sputtered in recruiting when he was the head coach.
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Actually, I think he cleaned up the program. Had lots of pressure to improve the image from school admin. Not much support/money for hiring assistant coaches.

He's a respectable guy... about as clean as Dooley, but he can coach and he knows the South Florida circuit. That's gold for UT, especially with the U's problems with the AA. Their crap is NOT because of CRS.
 
#153
#153
99gator said:
Miami has never beat anyone with schemes or coaching on the defensive side of the ball.

They are traditionally as vanilla as it gets. They play a base 4-3, man underneath with two safeties over the top since man discovered fire.

They never back out of it. Ever. No matter how well you run the ball, they dont drop an 8th guy in the box. They rarely blitz.

They just challenge you and dictate their guys are bettee than your guys, except when they aren't. When they have had extraordinary talent, you are helpless. When they haven't, their defenses are relatively easy to pick apart because they dont fool anyone.

You could have made a game plan in 2006 from film in 1986the and you would have been prepared.

Just my two cents before anything happens
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This is embarrassing.......
 
#154
#154
Fullfillmer said:
Have another drink Johnny. Charlie is coaching in Kansas. I don't have a problem with him throwing out a word of caution for Vol fans. There are very few sure thing out there. ( Perhaps with the exception of Saban when Ala. went after him. ) so I like the idea of RS but he and his staff will have to recruit great players for him to be successful. What is his reputation as a recruiter? It seems the U sputtered in recruiting when he was the head coach.
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He isn't going to be our head coach. Their recruiting was pretty decent on the defensive side of the ball when he was coordinator...
 
#155
#155
Another Gator fan here. We're not scared of Shannon going to Rocky Top, we're just concerned for you about the identity crisis your program seems to be having.

You guys brought in Dooley to Sabanize your program, but these hires do not fall within the Sabanization Guidelines. Saban believes in the 3-4 because it's a symmetrical front that enables you to play a 7 man front and still have split safety coverage. He preaches more of a physical, attacking style. Shannon, as the OP mentioned, plays that same old, vanilla, base 4-3 and relied on freakish Dade County talent (which will be harder for him to recruit to UT than you think) to make plays within it. I think it's important for Tennessee fans to understand that Nick Saban would not support this hire (contrast this with Saban's full endorsement of Dan Quinn). It's like, we were all kind of in this Sabanization Process together and now the Vols are going awol with off the board hires. I think we're concerned that you guys are panicking and not trusting The Process. You've got to remember that LSU lost to UAB in Saban's first year and Alabama lost to UL-Monroe in his first year in Tuscaloosa. It's not always a bed of roses when you're building a foundation, but you can't just scrap the plans and hire a new architect with a completely different philosophy because you feel pressured to make something happen. My advice to Dooley: scrap this Shannon deal, pick up the phone, and call Muschamp or Saban who could recommend a solid 3-4 guy who has been accredited within the Saban system. If he doesn't, and he goes through with this Shannon hire, it will be hard for him to look Muschamp and Saban in the eye next year when they meet at the 50 in Neyland. Amongst the Saban fraternity, he will forever be known as a defector.
 
#158
#158
Chas in Boca said:
Another Gator fan here. We're not scared of Shannon going to Rocky Top, we're just concerned for you about the identity crisis your program seems to be having.

You guys brought in Dooley to Sabanize your program, but these hires do not fall within the Sabanization Guidelines. Saban believes in the 3-4 because it's a symmetrical front that enables you to play a 7 man front and still have split safety coverage. He preaches more of a physical, attacking style. Shannon, as the OP mentioned, plays that same old, vanilla, base 4-3 and relied on freakish Dade County talent (which will be harder for him to recruit to UT than you think) to make plays within it. I think it's important for Tennessee fans to understand that Nick Saban would not support this hire (contrast this with Saban's full endorsement of Dan Quinn). It's like, we were all kind of in this Sabanization Process together and now the Vols are going awol with off the board hires. I think we're concerned that you guys are panicking and not trusting The Process. You've got to remember that LSU lost to UAB in Saban's first year and Alabama lost to UL-Monroe in his first year in Tuscaloosa. It's not always a bed of roses when you're building a foundation, but you can't just scrap the plans and hire a new architect with a completely different philosophy because you feel pressured to make something happen. My advice to Dooley: scrap this Shannon deal, pick up the phone, and call Muschamp or Saban who could recommend a solid 3-4 guy who has been accredited within the Saban system. If he doesn't, and he goes through with this Shannon hire, it will be hard for him to look Muschamp and Saban in the eye next year when they meet at the 50 in Neyland. Amongst the Saban fraternity, he will forever be known as a defector.
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Before you proceed to get bashed, I want to say at least you have an interesting point and proceed to back it up with substance. However, if you look at the rankings of Miami's recruiting classes during that time, they aren't much higher (if at all) than ours are projected to be/have been in the past so I believe he will be working with similar talent.
 
#160
#160
99gator said:
Miami has never beat anyone with schemes or coaching on the defensive side of the ball.

They are traditionally as vanilla as it gets. They play a base 4-3, man underneath with two safeties over the top since man discovered fire.

They never back out of it. Ever. No matter how well you run the ball, they dont drop an 8th guy in the box. They rarely blitz.

They just challenge you and dictate their guys are bettee than your guys, except when they aren't. When they have had extraordinary talent, you are helpless. When they haven't, their defenses are relatively easy to pick apart because they dont fool anyone.

You could have made a game plan in 2006 from film in 1986the and you would have been prepared.

Just my two cents before anything happens
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eafd gator
 
#162
#162
vollygirl said:
Good grief y'all. Do some research on what he did with that year off. He studied college football. Damn.
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Link?

Actually I am a little concerned with the fact that he has never coached outside of MIA. He's not cultured per se....which concerns me.
 
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#163
#163
Chas in Boca said:
Another Gator fan here. We're not scared of Shannon going to Rocky Top, we're just concerned for you about the identity crisis your program seems to be having.

You guys brought in Dooley to Sabanize your program, but these hires do not fall within the Sabanization Guidelines. Saban believes in the 3-4 because it's a symmetrical front that enables you to play a 7 man front and still have split safety coverage. He preaches more of a physical, attacking style. Shannon, as the OP mentioned, plays that same old, vanilla, base 4-3 and relied on freakish Dade County talent (which will be harder for him to recruit to UT than you think) to make plays within it. I think it's important for Tennessee fans to understand that Nick Saban would not support this hire (contrast this with Saban's full endorsement of Dan Quinn). It's like, we were all kind of in this Sabanization Process together and now the Vols are going awol with off the board hires. I think we're concerned that you guys are panicking and not trusting The Process. You've got to remember that LSU lost to UAB in Saban's first year and Alabama lost to UL-Monroe in his first year in Tuscaloosa. It's not always a bed of roses when you're building a foundation, but you can't just scrap the plans and hire a new architect with a completely different philosophy because you feel pressured to make something happen. My advice to Dooley: scrap this Shannon deal, pick up the phone, and call Muschamp or Saban who could recommend a solid 3-4 guy who has been accredited within the Saban system. If he doesn't, and he goes through with this Shannon hire, it will be hard for him to look Muschamp and Saban in the eye next year when they meet at the 50 in Neyland. Amongst the Saban fraternity, he will forever be known as a defector.
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The Saban Fraternity? :eek:lol::eek:lol::lolabove::lolabove::loco::loco::neener::neener::spank::spank::spank:
 
#164
#164
You know what guys, these Gators have me convinced. I can't believe I fell for the hype. I am officially against the hiring of Randy Shannon. After all, these Gator fans truly care for the well being of Tennessee football. They're such good guys. Thanks Gators for opening my eyes. Here's to FU! :toast:
 
#165
#165
Chas in Boca said:
Another Gator fan here. We're not scared of Shannon going to Rocky Top, we're just concerned for you about the identity crisis your program seems to be having.

You guys brought in Dooley to Sabanize your program, but these hires do not fall within the Sabanization Guidelines. Saban believes in the 3-4 because it's a symmetrical front that enables you to play a 7 man front and still have split safety coverage. He preaches more of a physical, attacking style. Shannon, as the OP mentioned, plays that same old, vanilla, base 4-3 and relied on freakish Dade County talent (which will be harder for him to recruit to UT than you think) to make plays within it. I think it's important for Tennessee fans to understand that Nick Saban would not support this hire (contrast this with Saban's full endorsement of Dan Quinn). It's like, we were all kind of in this Sabanization Process together and now the Vols are going awol with off the board hires. I think we're concerned that you guys are panicking and not trusting The Process. You've got to remember that LSU lost to UAB in Saban's first year and Alabama lost to UL-Monroe in his first year in Tuscaloosa. It's not always a bed of roses when you're building a foundation, but you can't just scrap the plans and hire a new architect with a completely different philosophy because you feel pressured to make something happen. My advice to Dooley: scrap this Shannon deal, pick up the phone, and call Muschamp or Saban who could recommend a solid 3-4 guy who has been accredited within the Saban system. If he doesn't, and he goes through with this Shannon hire, it will be hard for him to look Muschamp and Saban in the eye next year when they meet at the 50 in Neyland. Amongst the Saban fraternity, he will forever be known as a defector.
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Most of the defenses in the NFL are still 4-3. That is what UT has used for eons and will continue to use. It's a fallacy to assume we are trying to copy everything Saban is doing. Hamilton (now gone) thought the affiliation would offset Dooley's abysmal record coming in, along with name recognition (his dad).

We are running more of a spread (passing) offense than Bamer, too. I think, somewhere in the recesses of your mind, you hate the fact that this gives TN a bigger recruiting footprint in FL.
 
#167
#167
I love the part where Dooley needs to pick up the phone and call Musckrat for advice. And FWIW, the Saban tree has been poisoned and no fruit is being produced.:sick:
 
#168
#168
VOLorNuttin said:
Most of the defenses in the NFL are still 4-3. That is what UT has used for eons and will continue to use. It's a fallacy to assume we are trying to copy everything Saban is doing. Hamilton (now gone) thought the affiliation would offset Dooley's abysmal record coming in, along with name recognition (his dad).

We are running more of a spread (passing) offense than Bamer, too. I think, somewhere in the recesses of your mind, you hate the fact that this gives TN a bigger recruiting footprint in FL.
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Well, if that's true about Tennessee moving more toward a spread passing O, then please know my concerns also extend over to that side of the ball, as well. It's not fundamentally sound when viewed in light of Saban's First Principle: "The SEC is a line of scrimmage league." You've got to be able to control the line of scrimmage, which is best done with a huge O line and a thick, power-running tailback. Tennessee used to have this to a certain degree with the likes of Jamal Lewis and the Travis'. I think Riggs was a Saban-approved RB, as well. Now, it sounds like you've let images of Boise, West Virginia, and Urban Liar (the false prophet who Saban exposed) cloud your vision of the fundamental precepts. The spread is dead, folks. Saban killed it and has shown what it will take to compete in the new SEC.

After making a savvy under the radar hire in Dooley, it would be a shame to saddle him with coordinators who violate The Precepts. Did I read in another thread that Dooley preferred Steele, but the AD Hart forced his hand with Shannon? If so, that explains a lot. Be advised that Hart ran FSU into the ground and they are just now starting to recover after converting to Sabanism themselves through disciple Fisher. You would think Hart would have converted himself after his time at Bama, but apparently he's still clinging to old ways. I feel bad for Dooley if that's the case.
 
#170
#170
Chas in Boca said:
Well, if that's true about Tennessee moving more toward a spread passing O, then please know my concerns also extend over to that side of the ball, as well. It's not fundamentally sound when viewed in light of Saban's First Principle: "The SEC is a line of scrimmage league." You've got to be able to control the line of scrimmage, which is best done with a huge O line and a thick, power-running tailback. Tennessee used to have this to a certain degree with the likes of Jamal Lewis and the Travis'. I think Riggs was a Saban-approved RB, as well. Now, it sounds like you've let images of Boise, West Virginia, and Urban Liar (the false prophet who Saban exposed) cloud your vision of the fundamental precepts. The spread is dead, folks. Saban killed it and has shown what it will take to compete in the new SEC.

After making a savvy under the radar hire in Dooley, it would be a shame to saddle him with coordinators who violate The Precepts. Did I read in another thread that Dooley preferred Steele, but the AD Hart forced his hand with Shannon? If so, that explains a lot. Be advised that Hart ran FSU into the ground and they are just now starting to recover after converting to Sabanism themselves through disciple Fisher. You would think Hart would have converted himself after his time at Bama, but apparently he's still clinging to old ways. I feel bad for Dooley if that's the case.
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Give me a break
 
#171
#171
Hey guys, if you'll allow me, I'd like to also respond to that comment about the Saban tree being poisoned and producing no fruit.

I think what we need to understand is that there is a difference between building teams and building programs. Guys like Urban Liar build teams - they only focus on the short term and, though they can win championships, they usually flame out in the long run and leave the program with only 60 scholarship players because it's been mismanaged so badly. Saban builds programs. Programs have a strong foundation and are built for the long-haul. There might be some ugly years early on, but once the foundation has been laid, then you can dominate for a long time. Just look at LSU who is still living off Saban's great foundation despite having a moron like Miles as a head coach. Guys like Jimbo Fisher, Derek Dooley, Will Muschamp, and soon to be Jim McElwain at CSU and eventually Kirby Smart somewhere, they are disciples who also understand the value of program-building...as opposed to just assembling as much talent as humanly possible and hoping it sparks (a la Dabo Swinney, Urban Liar, etc.)

So, please understand that's what Dooley is trying to do for you. He's going to build you a foundation that will have the Vols competing for numerous championships...not just one or two. But "The Process" (as Saban calls it) takes time and requires diligence. You can't get impatient and then force Dooley to make hires that don't comport with The Plan. Randy Shannon is such a hire. He would never be approved by Coach Saban, but Hart knows it's a quick way to make a little splash for a beleaguered fan base and give the illusion of some momentum. But this is not in your best interest. I'll close with "The Parable of McElwain" from the Lessons of Saban:

"In 2007, after a 7-6 first season at Alabama, Nick Saban's coordinator Major Applewhite left for his alma mater Texas. Many thought Saban should try to make a big splash and bring in a coach that would run one of the new, explosive spread offenses. But Saban was too wise for that. Deep down, he knew exactly what he needed and so he methodically took his time coming the country and eventually found his guy, Jim McElwain, at Fresno State. The rest, as they say, is history."
 
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#172
#172
I want some of the drugs Chas has.

Randy Shannon will bring elite level talent to the Tennessee defense.

What is hilarious is that we all know that Miami kids hate UF, and they were never going to capitalize on the current misery down there. Now we are the ones who will. I cannot wait for the new Ed Reed to come and light up a Florida QB like a freaking stogie.

We will get better RBs, and we are rebuilding our lines, but our best players at DT are JUCOs and a guy who got kicked off his old team (Sentimore) and our entire OL aside from its weakest link will be juniors next year...
 
#173
#173
Andrew Wiggin said:
I want some of the drugs Chas has.

Randy Shannon will bring elite level talent to the Tennessee defense.

What is hilarious is that we all know that Miami kids hate UF, and they were never going to capitalize on the current misery down there. Now we are the ones who will. I cannot wait for the new Ed Reed to come and light up a Florida QB like a freaking stogie.

We will get better RBs, and we are rebuilding our lines, but our best players at DT are JUCOs and a guy who got kicked off his old team (Sentimore) and our entire OL aside from its weakest link will be juniors next year...
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Ed Reed was from Louisiana and actually wanted to go to LSU but they wouldn't take him. You need to understand that a lot of the players from those great 2000-2002 Miami teams weren't highly recruited. Guys like Dan Morgan, Santana Moss, etc., committed to a Miami program coming off some rough probation years. Ironically, once Miami was on top and started loading up on 5 star kids like Kyle Wright, Lance Leggett, Sam Shields, Ryan Moore, etc., they started to flop.

If anything, this just further proves the Saban theory about program-building vs. team-building.

You've got the right head coach. Now you just need to get him a DC that will run an aggressive 3-4 scheme and an OC who is committed to controlling the line of scrimmage and wearing the opponents down with the run game.

Tennessee is close, but Shannon would be a step back.
 
#174
#174
Andrew Wiggin said:
Randy Shannon will bring elite level talent to the Tennessee defense.
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Shannon was one of the worst recruiters in college football; he sunk a local-talent-rich Miami program to severe depths and had the lowest rate of landing top-recruits out of his local area of any program in the country while he was HC. Assuming he would "bring elite talent" to any part of the team is not a good assumption.
 
#175
#175
OK. Good, thoughtful post. Most of which I agree with. What I don't understand is why Randy Shannon is an "UnSaban-like" hire? I also don't think he is a "Big splash" hire. Yes, he was the HC at Miami, but he was let go pretty unceremoniously. He then took a year off from coaching. Then, on his own dime, spent weeks with a number of top-tier programs (including Alabama) studying the details of how the programs operate. I believe he spent time with seven different programs.

That, to me, sounds like a pretty diligent man. One still working to increase his own value to a football program. He's driven, smart, passionate, successful and self-aware. The man has an extraordinary background. He's seen tremendous tragedy, success, struggles, etc. And through it all, he stood in the fire, showed incredible loyalty and never balked. I'm not saying he is the perfect hire- or even the right hire. But if this is the guy Dooley picks, then it seems to me, there are plenty of reasons to think he will succeed.
 
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