You can’t blame Philip Fulmer for anything

#152
#152
VFL-82-JP said:
I don't believe Phillip had any idea that we were cheating. I think he has too much integrity to stand for that. But then, I'm pre-disposed to think the best of a coach who brought us championships.

The one form of culpability Phillip can not avoid is that of command responsibility. The bigger a scandal is, the further up the chain of command it reaches. It seems the current scandal is big enough to warrant the removal of not only the head coach, but (more gently) the AD as well.

Note, I think Phillip was closing in on retirement anyway. I think the speed with which Donde found Danny White is circumstantial proof that Phillip had already told her he was getting close.

But he clearly would not have wanted to leave at that exact time, under those conditions. He was gently pushed out, almost for sure.

At the end of the day, I don't think you can call him a cheater. Just the guy who hired and led one.
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Integrity? What you think all those kids Fulmer got in the 90s/00s came bc they just heard Rocky Top and were enthralled? Running through the T is that special?

you do know Fulmer once interfered with a rape investigation at a Shoneys right?
 
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#153
#153
He is 100% responsible. He’s the one that hired the idiot to begin with then gave him that ridiculous extension when no other program in the country was going to try to hire him away from us. I really believe that extension/buyout is why the university went public with the investigation. Otherwise they might have kept it under wraps and mutually parted with Pruitt
 
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#155
#155
Let's get out of the past folks, it isn't going to do nothing. Time to look ahead. Plenty of theories some might be true some not but it really doesn't matter. Yesterday is GONE!!!! GBO!!!!!!
 
#156
#156
VFL-82-JP said:
I've heard that argument before, that Phillip inherited talent, couldn't amass it himself. It is demonstrably false in three ways:

(a) He was on Johnny Majors' staff all those years before becoming head coach. He was one of the key guys pulling in the talent that he then inherited. So he inherited in significant part from himself.

(b) He won his first conference title in 1997, five years after taking over from Majors. Every single player Phillip inherited when he took over (including from himself) was already gone by then. All the players who won that title came from the Fulmer era, not the Majors era. A year later, he won a national title for us. Again, long after all the Majors-recruited players (many of whom were actually recruited by OC Fulmer) were gone. He won the East in 2001, 2004, and 2007...respectively, 9, 12, and 15 years after Johnny Majors retired from Tennessee. Phillip's success wasn't inherited, he recruited and developed it himself (with help from his staff, of course, all head coaches depend on their staffs).

(c) He was renowned as a recruiter at the time. Movie and TV portrayals even play off that reputation. The Blind Side is one good example, but just one of many. He was known as a strong closer in the living room throughout his coaching years.

In short, (a) he gets some credit for Johnny's successes as a member of Johnny's staff, not the other way around, (b) his best seasons were all long after the original squad had graduated and passed on, and (c) the conventional wisdom of his recruiting ability is 180 degrees out of what you claim.

Any coach who brings your program championships, you should say one thing to him before anything else: thank you, Coach.
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I stopped after the first few sentences because I never claimed Fulmer couldn't recruit. He was a great recruiter and helped immensely during the mid-80s, but did it while an assistant OL coach, without the enormous responsibilities as the HC. While Majors' record as HC was inconsistent for so many years, his recruiting was spectacular. Long before Phillip became a recruiting machine. Johnny laid a solid base of top notch talent. There weren't any recruiting rankings to speak of in the late 70s-early 80s. It wasn't uncommon to hear NFL gms and scouts proclaim that UT was providing some of the best players. Phillip did a good job capitalizing on the situation he inherited. When he was faced with rebuilding as a HC, he struggled with it. It's absolutely why he couldn't garner any offers of note after being fired. He made it well known too, he was still "hungry" to coach. Pathetically, he was delusional about himself. When he got the AD job, he spent the first 5 minutes talking about himself in the initial presser. A supreme narcissist and yet delusional at the same time
 
#159
#159
Orange defense said:
He hired Pruitt thinking that he could win here with his ability. He wasn’t involved in the Pruitt mess. Pruitt is the one that is responsible for this mess.
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The man that hired him, and didn’t keep an eye 👁 on him is guilty of not maintaining institutional control . ... and I like Fulmer, he has always been gracious to me
 
#160
#160
Orange defense said:
He hired Pruitt thinking that he could win here with his ability. He wasn’t involved in the Pruitt mess. Pruitt is the one that is responsible for this mess.
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If he knew... he's responsible. If he did not know... then he is MUCH MORE responsible. Preventing "messes" like this is one of the primary jobs of the AD.

Fulmer failed for the same reason he eventually failed as a HC without Cutcliffe. He doesn't know how to hire people or hold them accountable except to try to micromanage them.

Fulmer was either neck deep in this or oblivious... not much in between. Either way he is 100% responsible. UT did him a great kindness by allowing him to "retire".
 
#161
#161
volintheham said:
Fulmer was either complicit or he was negligent in this scenario, there are no other explanations. His actions and the reaction by the University tend to make me believe the latter, but the brazen stupidity of some of the hearsay/rumours (which most certainly is embellished) makes you wonder how he was ignorant of the situation.
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I think she covered that at the firing presser when she referenced two things, the quantity of infractions and the way they had been masked from view. I think the number of people fired was indicative of the complexity of the coverup efforts. I am hoping this is evident to the NCAA as well to help mitigate the severity of the hammer. They don’t like blind eye oversight.

Edited to add

I think the NCAA response will clear up whether normal oversight should have caught the infractions.
 
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#162
#162
Raebo said:
Look at his AD contract.
If he "retires" he gets NO further salary, payments, or benefits.
If he is "terminated" without cause then he receives about 450,000 per year through 2023.
He is going to receive 450,000 through 2023.
Looks like he was terminated (fired) to me unless UT is in violation of the contract.
They are all just trying to cover up the termination.
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I am happy with the new AD and coach, but, as a double grad of UTK, I would like to ask Ms Plowman and the senior admin team why I should donate my hard earned bucks to my school when you allow Phil Fulmer to retire(?) with $450,000/year for three years and Kevin Steele $900,000 for two weeks work?
Both of these gentlemen should donate this money back to UT
 
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#165
#165
Fulmer is to blame for giving Steele a 2 yr guaranteed contract worth $900K that he is going to receive for 2 weeks of work. How stupid is that. Fulmer guaranteed salary should pay that but they won't take it out of his pay.
 
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#166
#166
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#167
#167
You can blame Fulmer for every bit of the BS that went on at UT. His stupid af hire, his watch. I don't know how he can cash those checks after the crap he caused at UT.
 
#169
#169
So I can’t blame the person who hired the problem.

I can’t blame the person who was the boss of those who created the mess.

I can’t blame the guy who gave the person an un-warranted raise.

I can’t blame the guy who “allowed” this to happen on his watch.

what is the point in having someone in charge?

Pruitt’s fault......certainly.......Fulmer shares “some” of the blame........certainly......as HE was in charge.
 
#172
#172
UTNOW20 said:
said without an iota of evidence!! bravo sir!!
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The issue is institutional control and the leader is wrong either way--he either knows or should have known
That is the way the world works in hierarchies
Your support of CPF is idiotic, however, entertaining
he back stabbed his way to a good run--ran the program into the ditch-- and has returned to rerun--quite a legacy
and I have been here way long enough to have seen the entire SORDID MESS
 
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