Worst President's First 100 Days in History

#478
#478
hog88 said:
I guess things that are completely over your head. Like when I try to talk to my 2yo granddaughter.
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Mhhm. Sorry you don't understand that a US President (Lincoln) has the right and duty to make a proclamation calling forth state militias (including Tennessee's) in order to suppress a rebellion (Southern withdrawal from Union).

You should read this to your granddaughter. Maybe you'll pick up a thing or two along the way:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Lincoln is normally ranked by historians and scholars as the best- or second-best President in the history of our nation. That you think he's the worst speaks to your pure ignorance in the world of "up is down" and "down is up" Orwellian-Trumpism.
 
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#479
#479
MontyPython said:
Even a 2-year-old understands that a US President (Lincoln) has the right and duty to make a proclamation calling forth state militias (including Tennessee's) in order to suppress a rebellion (Southern withdrawal from Union).

You should read this to your granddaughter. Maybe you'll pick up a thing or two along the way:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Lincoln is normally ranked by historians and scholars as the best- or second-best President in the history of our nation. That you think he's the worst speaks to your pure ignorance in the world of "up is down" and "down is up" Orwellian-Trumpism.
Click to expand...

There was no rebellion, SC seceded from the Union. They didn't rebel, they just said "we're out". Lincoln then ordered southern states to raise troops to attack SC knowing they would say "piss off". He could have easily negotiated with SC (best solution) or sent troops already under arms to SC (worse solution) but no, he took the one action that he knew would cause other states to secede.

Lincoln wanted the civil war because he envisioned himself as president for life. He was a tyrant.
 
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#480
#480
hog88 said:
There was no rebellion, SC seceded from the Union. They didn't rebel, they just said "we're out". Lincoln then ordered southern states to raise troops to attack SC knowing they would say "piss off". He could have easily negotiated with SC (best solution) or sent troops already under arms to SC (worse solution) but no, he took the one action that he knew would cause other states to secede.

Lincoln wanted the civil war because he envisioned himself as president for life. He was a tyrant.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Pure. Revisionist. History.

The South started the Civil War when it attacked Federal troops in Ft. Sumter.

Your post does provide insight into the psychology of those few people in our nation that still try to grasp to a non-existent history. Sorry. Confederacy lost. The end.

For your reading pleasure:

Fort Sumter
00000648.jpg


Confederate forces shelled Fort Sumter for three and a half days before Northern commander Major Robert Anderson surrendered. This image depicts Fort Sumter as it appeared in 1861.
It all began at Fort Sumter.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded from the Union. Five days later, 68 federal troops stationed in Charleston, South Carolina, withdrew to FORT SUMTER, an island in CHARLESTON HARBOR. The North considered the fort to be the property of the United States government. The people of South Carolina believed it belonged to the new Confederacy. Four months later, the first engagement of the Civil War took place on this disputed soil.

The commander at Fort Sumter, MAJOR ROBERT ANDERSON, was a former slave owner who was nevertheless unquestionably loyal to the Union. With 6,000 South Carolina militia ringing the harbor, Anderson and his soldiers were cut off from reinforcements and resupplies. In January 1861, as one the last acts of his administration, President James Buchanan sent 200 soldiers and supplies on an unarmed merchant vessel, STAR OF THE WEST, to reinforce Anderson. It quickly departed when South Carolina artillery started firing on it.

Fort Sumter lies in the center of Charleston Harbor.
In February 1861, Jefferson Davis was inaugurated as the provisional president of the Confederate States of America, in Montgomery, Alabama. On March 4,1861, Abraham Lincoln took his oath of office as president of the Union in Washington, DC. The fate of Fort Sumter lay in the hands of these two leaders.

As weeks passed, pressure grew for Lincoln to take some action on Fort Sumter and to reunite the states. Lincoln thought of the Southern secession as "artificial." When Jefferson Davis sent a group of commissioners to Washington to negotiate for the transfer of Fort Sumter to South Carolina, they were promptly rebuffed.

Lincoln had a dilemma. Fort Sumter was running out of supplies, but an attack on the fort would appear as Northern aggression. States that still remained part of the Union (such as Virginia and North Carolina) might be driven into the secessionist camp. People at home and abroad might become sympathetic to the South. Yet Lincoln could not allow his troops to starve or surrender and risk showing considerable weakness.

Jefferson Davis was inaugurated provisional president of the Confederate States of America on February 18, 1861, and elected president of the CSA later that year.
At last he developed a plan. On April 6, Lincoln told the governor of South Carolina that he was going to send provisions to Fort Sumter. He would send no arms, troops, or ammunition — unless, of course, South Carolina attacked.

Now the dilemma sat with Jefferson Davis. Attacking Lincoln's resupply brigade would make the South the aggressive party. But he simply could not allow the fort to be resupplied. J.G. GILCHRIST, a Southern newspaper writer, warned, "Unless you sprinkle the blood in the face of the people of Alabama, they will be back in the old Union in less than ten days."

Davis decided he had no choice but to order Anderson to surrender Sumter. Anderson refused.

The Civil War began at 4:30 a.m. on April 12, 1861, when Confederate artillery, under the command of GENERAL PIERRE GUSTAVE T. BEAUREGARD, opened fire on Fort Sumter. Confederate batteries showered the fort with over 3,000 shells in a three-and-a-half day period. Anderson surrendered. Ironically, Beauregard had developed his military skills under Anderson's instruction at West Point. This was the first of countless relationships and families devastated in the Civil War. The fight was on.
 
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#481
#481
MontyPython said:
Wow.

Pure. Revisionist. History.

The South started the Civil War when it attacked Federal troops in Ft. Sumter.

Your post does provide insight into the psychology of those few people in our nation that still try to grasp to a non-existent history. Sorry. Confederacy lost. The end.

For your reading pleasure:

Fort Sumter
00000648.jpg


Confederate forces shelled Fort Sumter for three and a half days before Northern commander Major Robert Anderson surrendered. This image depicts Fort Sumter as it appeared in 1861.
It all began at Fort Sumter.

On December 20, 1860, South Carolina seceded from the Union. Five days later, 68 federal troops stationed in Charleston, South Carolina, withdrew to FORT SUMTER, an island in CHARLESTON HARBOR. The North considered the fort to be the property of the United States government. The people of South Carolina believed it belonged to the new Confederacy. Four months later, the first engagement of the Civil War took place on this disputed soil.

The commander at Fort Sumter, MAJOR ROBERT ANDERSON, was a former slave owner who was nevertheless unquestionably loyal to the Union. With 6,000 South Carolina militia ringing the harbor, Anderson and his soldiers were cut off from reinforcements and resupplies. In January 1861, as one the last acts of his administration, President James Buchanan sent 200 soldiers and supplies on an unarmed merchant vessel, STAR OF THE WEST, to reinforce Anderson. It quickly departed when South Carolina artillery started firing on it.

Fort Sumter lies in the center of Charleston Harbor.
In February 1861, Jefferson Davis was inaugurated as the provisional president of the Confederate States of America, in Montgomery, Alabama. On March 4,1861, Abraham Lincoln took his oath of office as president of the Union in Washington, DC. The fate of Fort Sumter lay in the hands of these two leaders.

As weeks passed, pressure grew for Lincoln to take some action on Fort Sumter and to reunite the states. Lincoln thought of the Southern secession as "artificial." When Jefferson Davis sent a group of commissioners to Washington to negotiate for the transfer of Fort Sumter to South Carolina, they were promptly rebuffed.

Lincoln had a dilemma. Fort Sumter was running out of supplies, but an attack on the fort would appear as Northern aggression. States that still remained part of the Union (such as Virginia and North Carolina) might be driven into the secessionist camp. People at home and abroad might become sympathetic to the South. Yet Lincoln could not allow his troops to starve or surrender and risk showing considerable weakness.

Jefferson Davis was inaugurated provisional president of the Confederate States of America on February 18, 1861, and elected president of the CSA later that year.
At last he developed a plan. On April 6, Lincoln told the governor of South Carolina that he was going to send provisions to Fort Sumter. He would send no arms, troops, or ammunition — unless, of course, South Carolina attacked.

Now the dilemma sat with Jefferson Davis. Attacking Lincoln's resupply brigade would make the South the aggressive party. But he simply could not allow the fort to be resupplied. J.G. GILCHRIST, a Southern newspaper writer, warned, "Unless you sprinkle the blood in the face of the people of Alabama, they will be back in the old Union in less than ten days."

Davis decided he had no choice but to order Anderson to surrender Sumter. Anderson refused.

The Civil War began at 4:30 a.m. on April 12, 1861, when Confederate artillery, under the command of GENERAL PIERRE GUSTAVE T. BEAUREGARD, opened fire on Fort Sumter. Confederate batteries showered the fort with over 3,000 shells in a three-and-a-half day period. Anderson surrendered. Ironically, Beauregard had developed his military skills under Anderson's instruction at West Point. This was the first of countless relationships and families devastated in the Civil War. The fight was on.
Click to expand...

Great, you can coppy and paste dates, times and people from another website but the problem is that you have no grasp of history.

If Lincoln had withdrawn the troops from Sumter instead of trying to instigate a war, there would have been no war. Then Lincoln doubled down by ordering southern states to raise Armys to attack SC, he knew what would happen and he wanted it to happen.
 
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#482
#482
hog88 said:
You have no grasp on history. If Lincoln had withdrawn the troops from Sumter instead of trying to instigate a war, there would have been no war. Then Lincoln doubled down by ordering southern states to raise Armys to attack SC, he knew what would happen and he wanted it to happen.
Click to expand...
I was about to reply but you replied first.

The Union soldiers were effectively squatters. The Confederacy tried to avoid them and simply blockaded the fort knowing they would run out of supplies.

As his non revisionist history pointed out Lincoln knew this and forced the issue via resupply knowing it would cause war.

Lincoln wanted war. The actual revisionist history is everybody chanting “but the South fired first!”
 
#483
#483
NorthDallas40 said:
I was about to reply but you replied first.

The Union soldiers were effectively squatters. The Confederacy tried to avoid them and simply blockaded the fort knowing they would run out of supplies.

As his non revisionist history pointed out Lincoln knew this and forced the issue via resupply knowing it would cause war.

Lincoln wanted war. The actual revisionist history is everybody chanting “but the South fired first!”
Click to expand...

The problem with most history teachers is they only teach who, what, when and where, they don't delve into the subject and teach the why. And completely ignore all of the outside influences and motivations behind historical events.
 
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#484
#484
hog88 said:
Great, you can coppy and paste dates, times and people from another website but the problem is that you have no grasp of history.

If Lincoln had withdrawn the troops from Sumter instead of trying to instigate a war, there would have been no war. Then Lincoln doubled down by ordering southern states to raise Armys to attack SC, he knew what would happen and he wanted it to happen.
Click to expand...

Pffft.

That's like saying if Pearl Harbor didn't happen, we wouldn't have entered WW2.

Poppycock!
 
#486
#486
hog88 said:
It's saying nothing like that.

We would have found another reason to enter WWII, FDR was determined to get us into the war.
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Churchill wanted us in sooner but FDR put it off as long as he could. Then Japan gave him the justification he needed.
 
#487
#487
hog88 said:
The problem with most history teachers is they only teach who, what, when and where, they don't delve into the subject and teach the why. And completely ignore all of the outside influences and motivations behind historical events.
Click to expand...
I think you can make an argument that secession was unconstitutional, however, I find the argument that secession was not prohibited by the constitution and a power granted to the states far more persuasive, as well as the actions and secession clauses in state constitutions at the time of ratification.

What is not up for debate. Lincoln defied the Constitution numerous times and waged a total war on a section of his own country including civilians (since he denied secession). He was personally responsible for the deaths of around 800,000 Americans in a war of choice. No other president can make such a claim.
I don’t think he intended it as much as he didn’t foresee how much it would escalate. That’s why when his 1864 re-election was looking grim, he increasingly used public religious symbology and tried to tie the cause to freeing the slaves while still advocating for slave deportation and graduated emancipation behind the scenes.
 
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#489
#489
hog88 said:
There was no rebellion, SC seceded from the Union. They didn't rebel, they just said "we're out". Lincoln then ordered southern states to raise troops to attack SC knowing they would say "piss off". He could have easily negotiated with SC (best solution) or sent troops already under arms to SC (worse solution) but no, he took the one action that he knew would cause other states to secede.

Lincoln wanted the civil war because he envisioned himself as president for life. He was a tyrant.
Click to expand...
Right...wasn't it Lincoln that sent out tweets a few months prior to the election of 1864 suggesting the upcoming election be delayed due to the potential of fraud so that he could remain "president for life?"
 
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#494
#494
hog88 said:
It's saying nothing like that.

We would have found another reason to enter WWII, FDR was determined to get us into the war.
Click to expand...

In your prior post, you literally said:

"If Lincoln had withdrawn the troops from Sumter instead of trying to instigate a war, there would have been no war."

KYdGd1d.gif
 
#497
#497
hog88 said:
There was no rebellion, SC seceded from the Union. They didn't rebel, they just said "we're out". Lincoln then ordered southern states to raise troops to attack SC knowing they would say "piss off". He could have easily negotiated with SC (best solution) or sent troops already under arms to SC (worse solution) but no, he took the one action that he knew would cause other states to secede.

Lincoln wanted the civil war because he envisioned himself as president for life. He was a tyrant.
Click to expand...

Your post is misleading:
"Following South Carolina’s lead, six deep south states adopted secession ordinances in January and February 1861—Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. Another eight slave holding states moved more cautiously. These states were controlled by moderate unionists. Four of them seceded after the start of military hostilities in April 1861 with the attack on Fort Sumter and Lincoln’s call for 75,000 volunteers to suppress the rebellion—Virginia, Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee. "
Chronology of Major Events Leading to Secession Crisis | AHA
 
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#500
#500
 
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