Worst Coach Ever?

#251
#251
knox73 said:
You guys do not remember Bill Battle. He wiped out an SEC championship program in record time. In modern times, Kiffin was the worst as he destroyed a solid recruiting class Fulmer had teed up - then recruited thugs and ran off some decent players. Then bolted for his "dream job" in the depth of the night while trying to pirate the early signing class he had for Tennessee. Pat Haden was so fed up with Kiffin that he fired him at the airport similar to Al Davis booting him out with the Raiders. Vols actually got a break when Kiffin headed west as he is incapable of managing a major NCAA football program and staying within the rules.

Dooley was a reach hire who inherited a mess. Butch was a reasonable hire who worked hard, was a terrific promoter, but promised too much to some recruits to try to upgrade the roster. It worked for awhile then lack of linemen and overall strength caught up. Pruitt took over the weakest roster of the group and is getting traction. You can see the player development in action. Consider Charlie Strong getting fired a second time, the NC State coach and others sucking wind after turning down the Vol job and you have to be grateful for Fulmer taking the helm of the train wreck and bringing in Jeremy Pruitt.
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Too young to remember Battle but the record books say his first three seasons were very good. I understand that they were Dickey’s players though. His last three years were definitely not as good with a gradual decline. However, his body of work wasn’t nearly as bad as any of the post Fulmer coaches. It took Johnny 7-8 years to get back to an elite level. Was that Battles thought?
 
#252
#252
If CJP wins his bowl game decisively and closes with a solid recruiting class I think he starts to move ahead of butch. If we have a strong season next year with 9+ wins there won’t be any doubt. Butch was considered a solid hire after his third season, even during the first half of his fourth. It was really the back half of season 4 and into his 5th that we knew he wasn’t right. Still too soon for CJP after 2 years to make a fair comparison. As long as he continues to trend upwards and show improvement with each game he will be the best post Fulmer coach. No idea if he will have a complete meltdown season like Butch in 2017 though.
 
#253
#253
PhoenixAZVol said:
Too young to remember Battle but the record books say his first three seasons were very good. I understand that they were Dickey’s players though. His last three years were definitely not as good with a gradual decline. However, his body of work wasn’t nearly as bad as any of the post Fulmer coaches. It took Johnny 7-8 years to get back to an elite level. Was that Battles thought?
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Battle inherited a loaded roster thanks to Doug Dickey. Notice his record got worse every year and when he left the roster was depleted (much like what Butch left for Pruitt). It took Majors a long time to restock and rebuild. Just like Butch, you can’t just look at Battle’s record and a couple good seasons — look at the overall damage they did to the program.
Battle lost to North Texas State (probably worse loss that this year) and a For Sale sign was put in his yard and a moving van parked out front.

Battle goes down as the worst followed by Butch for the long term destruction to our beloved program. Dooley not far behind (but If he had hired a decent DC his last year with Bray as QB, he might have lasted longer)
 
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#254
#254
Battle was one of the biggest "reach" hires in the history of the SEC. 28 years old - TE coach for the Vols. Fine man but ridiculous hire by any standard. Bob Woodruff passed over Johnny Majors who was head coach of Iowa State to hire Bill. Tragic decision as Johnny had to win a national championship at Pitt to get the Vol job he wanted so badly. If Majors had followed Dickey - all would have been fine. Dickey proceeded to go to his dream job at Florida and tank that program as he is thought of as one of their worst hires of all time.

Vols were absolutely loaded - went 11-1 or something like that in Battle's first year and recruiting started consistently dropping off. Condredge Holloway and Stanley Morgan saved Battle's job for a couple of years with stellar play but the lines got rapidly worse. Battle's record did not reflect the degree of the drop. There were not recruiting limits like later kicked in when Majors was hired. Majors could not get a break for several years and one of his coaches told me that the Vol squad was considerably worse than the Pitt squad the staff took over that won 1 game the year before Majors was hired. Battle never coached another day after leaving the Vols at 34 years old but became an outstanding business man. You can argue that Majors inherited a worse squad than any of the post - Fulmer coaches but that is very subjective with the exception of Pruitt who inherited a complete mess. Butch Jones is way too maligned by fans - he worked his tail off - it just was not in the cards to build a solid foundation. The 2 nine win seasons were quite an achievement with what he inherited. Dooley was a product of the 3-mile island job Kiffin did to the program and had no real chance for success. Pruitt is young and has an SEC powerhouse staff working all out. Tennessee remains one of the pizz pore states in the SEC as far as high school talent which has affected all coaches since Dickey including Battle with the emergence of black athletes in NCAA football. The NCAA recruiting limits which are ridiculous for a wealthy conference like the SEC really make it hard for coaches to stock programs in states with limited recruiting bases like Nebraska, Tennessee and some others. Majors and Fulmer both are underrated by fans.

Look - Pruitt and staff are showing abilities in player development that were not shown by the other post-Fulmer hires and fans need to support him and his staff the next few years and give a fair chance as fans did for Johnny Majors to build from the worst team in the SEC back toward the top. Tennessee will remain one of the best jobs in the SEC with facilities and fan base but also one of the worst with talent proximity to the university unlike Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, Florida, Mississippi and South Carolina so celebrate the bowl bound Vols any chance you can and enjoy life.
 
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#255
#255
knox-townVOL said:
By this point in his tenure at Tennessee, Butch had a worse record and less wins over Top 25 teams than Pruitt. And Florida and Georgia weren’t Top 10 teams in Butch’s second year.

Getouttahere with this garbage.
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Yet CBJ still has a better record. Facts aren't wrong even if they hurt your feelings.
 
#259
#259
VFL-82-JP said:
Quite a pronounced and unmistakeable position you carved out for yourself there, ZJC.

The lesson to draw from it isn't that you were wrong. We're all wrong sometimes. That's no big deal. It's that this is a symptom of a broader issue -- you (and others here) need to gain a sense of patience, a longer view, learn how not to hyperventilate at every setback.

Because life is just chock full of setbacks. You want to be able to weather them and come out the other side in reasonable shape.

Go Vols!
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JP he has probably changed his screen name by now, never to be heard from again.
 
#261
#261
PhoenixAZVol said:
Too young to remember Battle but the record books say his first three seasons were very good. I understand that they were Dickey’s players though. His last three years were definitely not as good with a gradual decline. However, his body of work wasn’t nearly as bad as any of the post Fulmer coaches. It took Johnny 7-8 years to get back to an elite level. Was that Battles thought?
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Bill was an excellent Xs and Os coach.. He could not recruit a thirsty cow to drink water. The first year Majors took over for him, Majors was in Atlanta and described the players he inherited were not very big, but they were slow and he was correct. Battle made a lot of money makinf and selling SEC logo clothing before he went back to UA and then retired. At Tennessee, Battle just ran out of Dickey's players and had to play with his own recruits.
 
#262
#262
Great bump. Isn't the internet wonderful. All your angry and emotional thoughts preserved for all to see. Reminds me of Herm Edwards' second most famous quote "Don't hit send !".

Unfortunately for us Vol fans the last two decades have had many downs and few ups. I end up picking through cow patties looking for diamonds. I have been encouraged at times through all of the previous coaches, ending up crestfallen due to various fatal flaws that were glossed over during better times.

CJP is still a work in progress. Apparently good in some ways (Defensive strategy, Player development, Relationships in recruiting, Staff selection) and not so good in others (Recruiting, Head Coaching persona, 1Q game performance). To be honest we are all a little clueless right now. We hope he can develop into a great HC and there are encouraging signs, but it can all come crashing down with another game like GA State.

I for one will hope that having Fulmer around to provide advice and cover will help CJP develop into that coach we want to bring us out of our twenty years of wandering in the wilderness. That said, I also know that in my forty years of following the Vols we have been in the National Championship discussion for five of them.

Thus we can all use Volnation (Thanks Freak !) to share our joys and our sorrows and have them preserved for posterity in case we get too big for our Big Orange Britches. GBO!
 
#263
#263
MWAVolfan said:
I'm sure not a Butch Jones fan, but this halo that people throw over Pruitt like he's a coaching genius is asinine. At least Butch was a head coach before coming to Tennessee and screwing everything up. We just straight up handed the keys to the bus to a nobody who promptly lost the first home opener in 30 years and has a combined margin of loss to Florida that is greater than Dooley and Butch combined in 8 years.

The people who are impressed that this team beat garbage teams down the stretch and this means Pruitt and Geronimo are the saviors of UT football is ludicrous.

We need way way more time before we can say Pruitt is goo at anything but eating cornbread and talking like an imbred.

Right now Butch > Pruitt > Dooley

Pruitt has work to do to pass Butch, sad to say.
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What is so ironic is Pruitt’s coaching style is the most similar to Neyland’s of the three and with the avatar you have nonetheless. Don’t worry, it is always difficult to see the forest through the trees.
 
#264
#264
FLVOL_79 said:
Thats irrelevant. We are talking about factual evidence, not whataboutism.
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Botch Jones coached at UT for 5 years. We only have two years with CJP. When CJP has coached here 5 years we will have the factual evidence needed to compare the two.
 
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#265
#265
VOLINVONORE said:
Bill was an excellent Xs and Os coach.. He could not recruit a thirsty cow to drink water. The first year Majors took over for him, Majors was in Atlanta and described the players he inherited were not very big, but they were slow and he was correct. Battle made a lot of money makinf and selling SEC logo clothing before he went back to UA and then retired. At Tennessee, Battle just ran out of Dickey's players and had to play with his own recruits.
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UT great Condredge Hollloway was recruited when Battle was HC. Ray Trail was leading recruiter in 1970, Bill Battle was there on Holloway's signing day.
Not saying he was a great recruiter. but VFL CH was a great pick up.
I would say he was way to young to be a CEO of one of the Top 10 National college football teams. 28 year old.
The famous fake punt to seal a victory,
2 yard loss, 5 plays later UGA in end zone.
Bill Battle did not seal the game , he sealed his doom.
 
#266
#266
reecetn said:
Botch Jones coached at UT for 5 years. We only have two years with CJP. When CJP has coached here 5 years we will have the factual evidence needed to compare the two.
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I agree, I'm stoked for the extra practices & the Bowl game.
Not being a downer but realistic, we held on to beat UK and even though we had over 500+ yards on UM the game came all the way to the end.
Being a realist this team was close to going 5 and 7. I'm optimistic considering we have very solid coaching on both sides of the ball.
The caveat will be the QB next year and will our WR's win all the 50/50 balls & will one of the WR's be that guy that goes over the middle and demands the ball (e.g. JJ) blocing out and fending off DB's he was like it's my ball a QB's best ally.
Our D should be good Bituli leadership missed but hopefully O'toto will seamlessly step in and D Taylor will be missed but Roman Harrison flashed that same quick first step on his sack, looked like a DTaylor clone vs Vandy.
 
#270
#270
FLVOL_79 said:
Thats irrelevant. We are talking about factual evidence, not whataboutism.
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Then answer the 1st question, because that's "factual evidence".
Dobbs was the reason Tenn won b2b 9 games, not Butch. JG has underperformed overall in his career being the #1 dual threat signee.
You yourself said that Pruitt inherited the worst talent "hands down". It's funny you're criticizing him.
I'm not sure what you even mean by Butch better record. What are you talking about?
 
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#271
#271
BDP! said:
Better record? After two regular seasons:
CBJ: 5-7, 6-6, 11-13
CJP: 5-7, 7-5, 12-12
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Oh..we are moving the goal posts to just compare the first two seasons? Lol. Whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel good right?
 
#272
#272
FLVOL_79 said:
Oh..we are moving the goal posts to just compare the first two seasons? Lol. Whatever you gotta do to make yourself feel good right?
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Moving the goal post? You’re the one that said CBJ has a better record. After two seasons he does not. What else are we to go by at this point? CJP has only been HC for two seasons.
 
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#273
#273
Other_Guy said:
Then answer the 1st question, because that's "factual evidence".
Dobbs was the reason Tenn won b2b 9 games, not Butch. JG has underperformed overall in his career being the #1 dual threat signee.
You yourself said that Pruitt inherited the worst talent "hands down". It's funny you're criticizing him.
I'm not sure what you even mean by Butch better record. What are you talking about?
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Still doesn't matter. JG wasn't even the starter for most of the year during BJ's last year. Hell..Pruitt only got JG to win what, 2, maybe 3 games that he started this year so I'm not too sure thats really the best benchmark to use.
 
#274
#274
BDP! said:
Moving the goal post? You’re the one that said CBJ has a better record. After two seasons he does not. What else are we to go by at this point? CJP has only been HC for two seasons.
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I never said that. I said CBJ has a better HC record at Tennessee than Pruitt does. That is a stone cold fact.
 
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