WNBA discussion thread?

#1,301
#1,301
glv98 said:
I mean, do people know how poorly CC has been playing?
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Does that even really matter when there's been a massive movement by rabid fans to blame her injuries on jealous opponents and, so, if they even have noticed her poor performance they don't put any responsibility on her. Cult followings overlook obvious flaws in their idols. We only need to look at the current state of this country to see how that works.
 
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#1,305
#1,305
n_huffhines said:
I don't think Clark has been playing that bad. Her shot isn't falling, but it's just 13 games. Again, looking at her per minute stats, we're seeing big improvement to her assist rate and stock rate. And a nice little improvement to her a/to ratio.

View attachment 757885
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Something is a little off in those stats. For example, CC is not averaging 10.2 assists or 17.5 points per game . It seems like these # are projections if she played 36 minute a game. Her current stat line (from ESPN):

Clark_Stats.png
So, her assist, rebound, and TO averages are pretty equivalent (some slightly up and some slightly down) but her scoring and shooting percentages are down across the board. What is slightly skewed about this comparison is that Clark had a much stronger 2nd half of her rookie season (post Olympic break). Her rookie season first half numbers might not have looked that different from this season's but expectations were up for her sophomore campaign.

The general perception that CC is not playing well is that she, like Steph Curry, is really judged by her three point shooting. And she has been in a horrific shooting slump particularly on the road. Folks are not paying to see logo threes clank off the front rim. I would guess the nagging injuries are just throwing her shot off that little bit.
More than a few folks have commented that the Fever should just shut her down till the playoffs and that is not a bad idea but there are fan and financial pressures to get her back on the court so they may keep rolling her out at 80%. (Not great for the brand.....)
 
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#1,306
#1,306
madtownvol said:
Something is a little off in those stats. For example, CC is not averaging 10.2 assists or 17.5 points per game . It seems like these # are projections if she played 36 minute a game. Her current stat line (from ESPN):

View attachment 757890
So, her assist, rebound, and TO averages are pretty equivalent (some slightly up and some slightly down) but her scoring and shooting percentages are down across the board. What is slightly skewed about this comparison is that Clark had a much stronger 2nd half of her rookie season (post Olympic break). Her rookie season first half numbers might not have looked that different from this season's but expectations were up for her sophomore campaign.

The general perception that CC is not playing well is that she, like Steph Curry, is really judged by her three point shooting. And she has been in a horrific shooting slump particularly on the road. Folks are not paying to see logo threes clank off the front rim. I would guess the nagging injuries are just throwing her shot off that little bit.
More than a few folks have commented that the Fever should just shut her down till the playoffs and that is not a bad idea but there are fan and financial pressures to get her back on the court so they may keep rolling her out at 80%. (Not great for the brand.....)
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Yeah, it's per minute stats so you can compare effectiveness of play. APG is affected by length of play, so AP36 controls for that.

I did the sane thing with MJ's stats.
She's banged up and not playing as many minutes, but her minutes are more effective in some ways.
 
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#1,308
#1,308
I only watch about an hour of WNBA a week mostly due to time issues and not having a favorite team. Despite some lulls in games, most games I watch have generally being played at a high level including some gorgeous plays. The crowds are way more in it than a few years ago. No where is that truer that in San Francisco, which has sold out their 18,000 seat arena for all 11 games so far and have the highest season ticket base for any women's sport team in history at 15,000 per ESPN. How the Valkyries have exceeded all expectations -- even their own
 
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#1,310
#1,310
lvocd said:
If Golden State Valkyries coach Natalie Nakase isn't named Coach of the Year, it'll be a real shame. What a job she has done to gather exactly the right personnel to compete in Year One. That franchise is doing everything right. And their fanbase is amazing. Good stuff!
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She had Kim’s model to follow… 😉🤙🏼
 
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#1,311
#1,311
lvocd said:
If Golden State Valkyries coach Natalie Nakase isn't named Coach of the Year, it'll be a real shame. What a job she has done to gather exactly the right personnel to compete in Year One. That franchise is doing everything right. And their fanbase is amazing. Good stuff!
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Too many awards get decided mid season. The Valks have hit the skids a bit lately, have lost their last 3 to go 2 games under .500. In fact, if things go right they’ll be caught in the win column tonight by the Sparks.

But they have done better than expected for a new team and their crowds are amazing.
 
#1,314
#1,314
Came across a great post on the WNBA financials from sports blogger Kory Woods.

People love bringing up WNBA profitability, but ignore how sports ownership actually works.

NBA franchises aren’t bought to turn a quick profit—they’re long-term investments that appreciate in value. The Chicago Bulls were bought for $16M in 1983. Today, they’re worth over $4B. The Suns sold for $4B in 2023. The average NBA franchise is now valued at nearly $4B.

Even with those sky-high values, short-term profits aren’t guaranteed. In 2017, 14 of the 30 NBA teams lost money before revenue sharing—and 9 still lost money after it. One of those teams? The Detroit Pistons. And yet, the Pistons are now valued at over $3 billion.

So let’s stop pretending profitability is the standard for legitimacy.

The WNBA is following the exact same trajectory. Franchise values are up 180% in the past year. The average team is now worth $269M, and the Golden State Valkyries expansion team is already valued at $500M.

The money is there. The growth is real. Stop moving the goalposts.

Sidebar: Clippers and Bucks lost money last season, but continue. Bucks lost $14 million, Clippers lost $114 million. Maybe their players should take paycuts too, based on some of y'all logic. (I will add the phoenix suns reported 0 profit)
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#1,315
#1,315
I don't think we actually know what the NBA net profit or loss really is as a League? I wonder why the W is public but the NBA is not. But at the end of the day, every business has a drop-dead date if it fails to become profitable. The W can continue to survive because it is heavily subsidised by the NBA. Without the NBA, it would quickly go the way of the XFL, AFL, WBL, GPBL, and Slamball. Profitability (current and near future profitability) absolutely matters when considering how much you can afford to pay employees.
 
#1,323
#1,323
37620VOL said:
I don't think we actually know what the NBA net profit or loss really is as a League? I wonder why the W is public but the NBA is not. But at the end of the day, every business has a drop-dead date if it fails to become profitable. The W can continue to survive because it is heavily subsidised by the NBA. Without the NBA, it would quickly go the way of the XFL, AFL, WBL, GPBL, and Slamball. Profitability (current and near future profitability) absolutely matters when considering how much you can afford to pay employees.
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Again, sports franchises are not equivalent to Aunt Bessie's sandwich shop on the corner, unless Aunt Bessie could sign a media rights deal for $200 million a year. If Aunt Bessie could sign that deal, then her financial viability is no longer fully dependent how many BLTs and hoagies she sells each day nor are her wages limited by sandwich sales.

Now let's go one step further, let's imagine to get her sandwich shop up and running that Aunt Bessie did need a loan from Uncle Carl. As a condition of that start-up loan, Uncle Clark maintains a controlling interest in Aunt Bessie's sandwich shop and manages her books, It turns out that Uncle Carl actually sets the wage rates for Aunt Bessie workers and he finds it advantageous to keep spreading information that Uncle Bessie is operating at a loss, despite her big media deal, so that he can justify paying Bessie's women bakers much less than he pays the male cooks in his own diner operation.


Back in 2018, NBA commissioner Adam Silver said that the WNBA annually loses roughly $10 million per year. Those losses allegedly quadrupled last year, sources told the New York Post, citing a rise in expenses like full-time charter flights and the fact that the WNBA’s new media rights deal would not kick in for another two years.

Count Andrew Zimbalist among those skeptical of those figures. Zimbalist, a professor at Smith College and a leading sports economist, served as an advisor to the NBA Players Association during multiple previous collective bargaining sessions. He remembers the NBA claiming losses each time in an effort to gain public support and extract further concessions from the players.

“They might claim they’re making a loss but when you look closely at their books they’re not really making a loss,” Zimbalist told Yahoo Sports.

“There are lots of shenanigans they can use to play with the books, so one would have to look very carefully at how they’re doing their accounting before you even enter into discussions. The women’s union needs to have some financially adept people at the bargaining table so the owners can’t pull the wool over their eyes.”

‘They’re absolutely underpaid’: Economists weigh in on WNBA labor showdown
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#1,325
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