Will we ever be expected....

#1
lilesrt

lilesrt

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#1
To beat the big boys in the SEC, or will it be merely acceptable to just "win out" after we've consistently lost every meaningful game in the season up until the last 4 games? I keep hearing that if Dooley "wins out" (meaning his last 4 games) that his job is safe. Is that considered progress? I am just posing this question because more and more fans are stating this as if another 7-5 season is acceptable. Please help me understand this. IMO, if I want to see real "improvement" (which we haven't), I have seen all I need to see, regardless of what the last 4 games show. Catch my drift?
 
#2
#2
Fans that remember the good ol' days of the 90's and early 2000's always expected a win, because we did win more than we lost. The younger fans may not remember those times and this whole pansy azz lame as hell era of being just a notch above Vandy has got to be changed. Back then, Ky, Vandy, MS State, SC, and all OOC games were usually guaranteed wins and then there were not so uncommon wins over Alabama, FL, Auburn and Ga.
 
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#3
#3
lilesrt said:
To beat the big boys in the SEC, or will it be merely acceptable to just "win out" after we've consistently lost every meaningful game in the season up until the last 4 games? I keep hearing that if Dooley "wins out" (meaning his last 4 games) that his job is safe. Is that considered progress? I am just posing this question because more and more fans are stating this as if another 7-5 season is acceptable. Please help me understand this. IMO, if I want to see real "improvement" (which we haven't), I have seen all I need to see, regardless of what the last 4 games show. Catch my drift?
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Yeah, I'm tired of hearing about progress. We still have trouble with player management/count and time out management after three years. Even with better talent, these blunders by the coaches will ALWAYS lose us games in this league.

ALSO....winning out isn't that much improvement to me. We should have beaten UK last year which should have given us a 6-6 record and a bowl, possibly giving us a 7-6 record, 6-7 at worst. If we play UK 100 times we should beat them 100 times. Yet Dooley found some way to lose. So is 7-5 really that much of an improvement? I think not.
 
#4
#4
BigT_Chief said:
Fans that remember the good ol' days of the 90's and early 2000's always expected a win, because we did win more than we lost. The younger fans may not remember those times and this whole pansy azz lame as hell era of being just a notch above Vandy has got to be changed. Back then, Ky, Vandy, MS State, SC, and all OOC games were usually guaranteed wins and then there were not so uncommon wins over Alabama, FL, Auburn and Ga.
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Well put!
 
#5
#5
At some point, this program will find a coach that 8-4 ISN'T OK at TN( Fulmer) or praying for a 7-5 record to save his job(Dooley).

The powers that be want people in the stands. It will happen this off season.
 
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#6
#6
lilesrt said:
To beat the big boys in the SEC, or will it be merely acceptable to just "win out" after we've consistently lost every meaningful game in the season up until the last 4 games? I keep hearing that if Dooley "wins out" (meaning his last 4 games) that his job is safe. Is that considered progress? I am just posing this question because more and more fans are stating this as if another 7-5 season is acceptable. Please help me understand this. IMO, if I want to see real "improvement" (which we haven't), I have seen all I need to see, regardless of what the last 4 games show. Catch my drift?
Click to expand...

.
 
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#8
#8
RichRollin said:
Yeah, I'm tired of hearing about progress. We still have trouble with player management/count and time out management after three years. Even with better talent, these blunders by the coaches will ALWAYS lose us games in this league.

ALSO....winning out isn't that much improvement to me. We should have beaten UK last year which should have given us a 6-6 record and a bowl, possibly giving us a 7-6 record, 6-7 at worst. If we play UK 100 times we should beat them 100 times. Yet Dooley found some way to lose. So is 7-5 really that much of an improvement? I think not.
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I completely agree. We are just fans. Surely Dave Hart and the "Powers that Be" see this. Wouldn't you think? What kills me about this situation is the fact that lack of recruiting is playing a huge part in Tennessee's Dimise. From a physicality and shear "presence" standpoint, we just do not have the depth and caliber of athletes that the big boys have. This will only get worse if Derek Dooley is retained. Our recruiting class this year is sub par. The 2014 class has some quality players at real positions of need. Why would this administration put that recruiting class in jeopardy with a coaching change when it really needs to be done at the end of this season? Next year, don't be surprised if our record is 2-6 at this point in the season, with a good chance that the Berry twins and Todd Kelly Jr. Start looking else where. Realistically, if I am a top ranked recruit, I am staying as far away from Derek Dooley as humanly possible so not to squander my talent.
 
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#9
#9
JonGrudensAgent said:
At some point, this program will find a coach that 8-4 ISN'T OK at TN( Fulmer) or praying for a 7-5 record to save his job(Dooley).

The powers that be want people in the stands. It will happen this off season.
Click to expand...

I so hope you are right. At first I wanted Gruden. Now, I will just settle for a competent Head coach. Doesn't have to be Gruden. There are plenty of great coaches out there that are winners. We don't have one and we desperately need one.
 
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#10
#10
lilesrt said:
I so hope you are right. At first I wanted Gruden. Now, I will just settle for a competent Head coach. Doesn't have to be Gruden. There are plenty of great coaches out there that are winners. We don't have one and we desperately need one.
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I refuse to buy into self fulfilling prophesies that no one wants to come to UT to coach.

It may not be Gruden but this program can pull a quality coach. We don't have that sniveling twit Hamilton running things anymore.
 
#11
#11
JonGrudensAgent said:
I refuse to buy into self fulfilling prophesies that no one wants to come to UT to coach.

It may not be Gruden but this program can pull a quality coach. We don't have that sniveling twit Hamilton running things anymore.
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It's amazing. Look at what Dan Mullen has done at MSU with his limited resources. Look at what Hugh Freeze has done with Ole Miss in just his 1 year there. A large portion of Vol Fans want to say how "bad of a situation" Dooley stepped into when taking the UT job. MIssissippi State and Ole Miss have NEVER been good and have a third of the recruiting budget yet their coaches have found a way to win. Derek Dooley and Tennessee spend more money than any other school in the SEC in terms of recruiting and it isn't even close. Yet, we sit at 11 in the SEC in recruiting rankings. Makes me sick.
 
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#12
#12
lilesrt said:
It's amazing. Look at what Dan Mullen has done at MSU with his limited resources. Look at what Hugh Freeze has done with Ole Miss in just his 1 year there. A large portion of Vol Fans want to say how "bad of a situation" Dooley stepped into when taking the UT job. MIssissippi State and Ole Miss have NEVER been good and have a third of the recruiting budget yet their coaches have found a way to win. Derek Dooley and Tennessee spend more money than any other school in the SEC in terms of recruiting and it isn't even close. Yet, we sit at 11 in the SEC in recruiting rankings. Makes me sick.
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I got a couple things on this particular topic. It's friday night on the eve of the Troy game, Homecoming. Anyone think we are an absolute lock tomorrow? First time in my life I've ever even thought about it. No one will treat it like it's Appy. St/Michigan if we lay an egg...will they?

I looked up a little stat for a fellow VN'r for another thread.

Since 1960, 52 years...How many Coaches have started off with 3 losing seasons in a row and gone on to win, or claim a piece of, the National Championship?

One. Bill McCartney at Colorado. In 1990.

Soak it in.

It get's better.

Bill ended up sharing the title with Bobby Ross at Ga. Tech.

In 1985 Tech tied Tennessee 6-6 and in '86 they beat us. In 1987 they hired Bobby Ross. He went 2-9, 3-8 in '87 and then 7-4 (4-3) before capturing a share of the National Championship in 1990, 11-0-1.

Anybody think Coach Dooley can take the recruits we're getting and beat the upper tier teams in our conference? Do you think he and his staff are good enough to win with less talent because they are excellent coaches like a Bobby Ross back then or Chris Peterson now? Is the jury still out? Still on the fence?

Before somebody says support the team...I will...even if Dooley stays another year, I will.

Dooley was brought in to stabilize the program and you know losing the entire defensive staff and switching schemes in year three, or is it two...anyway, it doesn't feel all that stable to me.

Go Big Orange, let's get a win tomorrow.
 
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#13
#13
vol66 said:
I got a couple things on this particular topic. It's friday night on the eve of the Troy game, Homecoming. Anyone think we are an absolute lock tomorrow? First time in my life I've ever even thought about it. No one will treat it like it's Appy. St/Michigan if we lay an egg...will they?

I looked up a little stat for a fellow VN'r for another thread in a different forum. Since 1960, 52 years...How many Coaches have started off with 3 losing seasons in a row and gone on to win, or claim a piece of, the National Championship?

One. Bill McCartney at Colorado. In 1990.

Soak it in.

It get's better.

Bill ended up sharing the title with Bobby Ross at Ga. Tech.

In 1985 Tech tied Tennessee 6-6 and in '86 they beat us. In 1987 they hired Bobby Ross. He went 2-9, 3-8 in '87 and then 7-4 (4-3) before capturing a share of the National Championship in 1990, 11-0-1.

Anybody think Coach Dooley can take the recruits we're getting and beat the upper tier teams in our conference? Do you think he and his staff are good enough to win with less talent because they are excellent coaches like a Bobby Ross back then or Chris Peterson now? Is the jury still out? Still on the fence?

Before somebody says support the team...I will...even if Dooley stays another year, I will.

Dooley was brought in to stabilize the program and you know losing the entire defensive staff and switching schemes in year three, or is it two...anyway, it doesn't feel all that stable to me.

Go Big Orange, let's get a win tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Even better.

Our Tennessee Vols opened the season in 1990 in Anaheim, CA versus the Colorado Buffaloes.

Driving late in the 4th qtr with time running out, Chuck Webb ran out of bounds 1-2 seconds too late for a last second FG attempt.

Final Score: Colorado 31 Tennessee 31

So, we also tied the 1990 co-national champs coached by Bill McCartney.
 
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#14
#14
ajvol01 said:
Even better.

Our Tennessee Vols opened the season in 1990 in Anaheim, CA versus the Colorado Buffaloes.

Driving late in the 4th qtr with time running out, Chuck Webb ran out of bounds 1-2 seconds too late for a last second FG attempt.

Final Score: Colorado 31 Tennessee 31

So, we also tied the 1990 co-national champs coached by Bill McCartney.
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LOL...awesome you found that...I realized they went 11-1-1, but I didn't bother to look at the individual games. Ha.
 
#15
#15
vol66 said:
LOL...awesome you found that...I realized they went 11-1-1, but I didn't bother to look at the individual games. Ha.
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That was straight from memory bro

Webb was incredible - tragically he tore his knee up in 1st qtr of the home opener vs Pacific a week later.

Pretty sure Gruden was on Walt Harris's staff at Pacific for that game.

Vols won 55-7
 
#16
#16
ajvol01 said:
That was straight from memory bro

Webb was incredible - tragically he tore his knee up in 1st qtr of the home opener vs Pacific a week later.

Pretty sure Gruden was on Walt Harris's staff at Pacific for that game.

Vols won 55-7
Click to expand...

Nice. I've killed to many brain cells, sometimes it's a curse, lately with UT football, it's been a blessing.
 
#17
#17
lilesrt said:
To beat the big boys in the SEC, or will it be merely acceptable to just "win out" after we've consistently lost every meaningful game in the season up until the last 4 games? I keep hearing that if Dooley "wins out" (meaning his last 4 games) that his job is safe. Is that considered progress? I am just posing this question because more and more fans are stating this as if another 7-5 season is acceptable. Please help me understand this. IMO, if I want to see real "improvement" (which we haven't), I have seen all I need to see, regardless of what the last 4 games show. Catch my drift?
Click to expand...

YIcwm.jpg

I for some stupid reason went to the sunshine pukes forum and posted this . The rock was painted by the future alumni of UT that are having to pay for this nightmare. That should tell you all you need to know . For the love of God those are not bandwagon fans but students that are living this hell.
 
#18
#18
UT is no longer the program it used to be. We have to accept that. It hasn't been for years. We are in an uphill battle against UF, Bama, LSU, UGA, etc. because of their in-state talent. I don't care how big our recruiting budget is....we can't match them in HS talent.
 
#19
#19
EastTN28 said:
UT is no longer the program it used to be. We have to accept that. It hasn't been for years. We are in an uphill battle against UF, Bama, LSU, UGA, etc. because of their in-state talent. I don't care how big our recruiting budget is....we can't match them in HS talent.
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It "used" to be that way because we had a good coach. Hire another good one and we're right back up there.
 
#20
#20
I was at UT during the transition from Majors to Fulmer. Expectations definitely changed.
 
#21
#21
Vol_Doc said:
I was at UT during the transition from Majors to Fulmer. Expectations definitely changed.
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I was following the program back then as well. I think most Vol fans expected to win the SEC a couple of times a decade, something that's almost always happened at UTK until recently. Granted, it was different when you could get into a tie for the conference championship and still claim it but we're not anywhere close to even that level. Eventually, all of the arguments about coaches, expectations, recruiting, etc. get back to the dual issue of not being able to win big games without better players and not being able to get better players without winning big games. To break out of this cycle, you have to have either a celebrity coach who elite recruits will flock to without having to first see the big wins (a Gruden-like hire) or a football genius who can win by outscheming all but the most talented of teams (a Petrino, Leach-type hire). I don't think we have either of those types in Dooley. If you believe Rivals rankings at all, our recruiting is slipping and we're sure not winning games on smart play. Maybe if Dooley gets to stay a few more years he can develop a blue collar roster that can occasionally put a scare in an elite SEC team, maybe even beat one if they're in a down cycle, kind of like Southern Miss once was and Miss State is now. That just doesn't seem like a goal worth waiting for.
 
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#23
#23
lilesrt said:
To beat the big boys in the SEC, or will it be merely acceptable to just "win out" after we've consistently lost every meaningful game in the season up until the last 4 games? I keep hearing that if Dooley "wins out" (meaning his last 4 games) that his job is safe. Is that considered progress? I am just posing this question because more and more fans are stating this as if another 7-5 season is acceptable. Please help me understand this. IMO, if I want to see real "improvement" (which we haven't), I have seen all I need to see, regardless of what the last 4 games show. Catch my drift?
Click to expand...

I think, like most things, money moves the needle. No matter what anyone says and as much as I hate to admit it, yesterday was the worst I've felt about a win and that is just depressing. Dooley got by yesterday---it's like passing a class with a "D". If the expectation is that Dooley needs to win these last 3 games to save his job then I do not see it happening. If we have Dooley for another year it's a clear message from the powers that be that the bar is lower and they are OK with the financial hit that will ensue from employing Dooley. I absolutely, positively, believe that is not the case. Dooley is not a winner and while he has done what he could---his best is not good enough. What I really fear is this program having the expectation level of an Ole Miss, Kentucky, or god forbid Vanderbilt . I think everything will be worked out after this season. The big level donors and prestigious former Vols (Peyton and others) will not allow this garbage to continue.

Tennessee and its fans deserve better! GBO!
 
#24
#24
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I was following the program back then as well. I think most Vol fans expected to win the SEC a couple of times a decade, something that's almost always happened at UTK until recently. Granted, it was different when you could get into a tie for the conference championship and still claim it but we're not anywhere close to even that level. Eventually, all of the arguments about coaches, expectations, recruiting, etc. get back to the dual issue of not being able to win big games without better players and not being able to get better players without winning big games. To break out of this cycle, you have to have either a celebrity coach who elite recruits will flock to without having to first see the big wins (a Gruden-like hire) or a football genius who can win by outscheming all but the most talented of teams (a Petrino, Leach-type hire). I don't think we have either of those types in Dooley. If you believe Rivals rankings at all, our recruiting is slipping and we're sure not winning games on smart play. Maybe if Dooley gets to stay a few more years he can develop a blue collar roster that can occasionally put a scare in an elite SEC team, maybe even beat one if they're in a down cycle, kind of like Southern Miss once was and Miss State is now. That just doesn't seem like a goal worth waiting for.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. At Dooley's pace I think we'll be just lowering the bar even further if by some miracle this guy is retained.
 
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