Will Tennessee ever be able to be elite ever again?

#77
#77
m9000 said:
What's the cash burn rate after stadium renovations and indoor practice facility compared to ticket revenue?

Cash comes from tickets and attendance at UT has been less than full recently.
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That's why Dooley won't last long if he doesn't start winning and pulling fans in.

aredfox28 said:
take out a damn loan, i dont care.. thats if dooley doesnt pan out.
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We still rank in the top ten in attendance year after year and for all the crap Hamilton took, he did bring in revenue. We're probably fine on money. Question is when (if) the time comes we'll be willing to spend it to lure the big boys here.
 
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#78
#78
If it was that simple, why does anything ever change at all, then? College football is cyclical. If historically strong programs have down periods, why do they always bounce back?

Losing may hurt recruiting (which it really isn't doing much with UT - again, our worst stretch perhaps ever and we're still getting top 10-15 classes every single year - and the darkest days are behind us, so why hasn't recruiting tanked if we're supposed to become an irrelevant and mediocre program?), but a wide variety of factors can turn the tide, and that's usually associated with money.

I'd still like to see this part of the post be addressed. Tennessee basically hit their lowest point ever in the last few years...yet they're still pulling in strong classes. If one little slump is supposed to make us permanently irrelevant, how can you explain this?

Projected to have great recruiting & winning are 2 different realities.

Not in the context of this conversation. You're stating that we won't be able to attract big name recruits forever if we hit a slump. Well, Michigan did just that, and they're not in a high profile recruiting area. Clearly, something else is assisting their ability to recruit.


Oregon has more excitment in a single game than UT does all year, plus they have the marketing $ and weight of Nike.

Um....that's exacty my point. They had a huge injection of money into their athletic department and it's done wonders for them - because money is ultimately what decides which programs come out on top.

Oregon also has California nearby and only 2 or 3 major programs fighting over recruits in a state with a population of 33 million. What are the big time program within 600 miles of Eugene? How many big time programs within 600 miles of Knoxville? LSU, Bama, VT, GA, UF, FSU, Ohio sate, WVU, Mich, USCar, etc.

There's also way more talent in the entire south than there is in California. Yet both Oregon and Tennessee are able to recruit with the big boys on a consistent basis within the region. Tennessee always recruits the south well, and with Dooley, especially Georgia. It's not just 'national' recruiting. Tennessee has a strong and consistent regional pool that they can use their wealth of resources to recruit - like they always have.

What was Nebraska's average ranking at the end of the year over the last 5 years?

They're hitting 10 wins on a regular basis and expected to do really big things this year. And honestly, other than Bill Callahan, they've been an elite program on an almost annual basis for an extremely long time.

It would be nice if I am wrong, but wishing away the lousy performance won't change reality on the scoreboard. UT has huge demographics problem- lousy high school football in Tn, low Black population within UT's home recruiting region and being forced to recruit nationally. From what I saw, UF is good, but hardly great and will probably lose at least 2 or 3 games this year (Bama, USC and FSU) so it isn't like we lost to the eventual national champs or even SEC champs.

That hasn't stopped up at all in the past, even when we've hit slumps. Again, convince me that money isn't way more important than location. The strongest programs are the ones with the biggest budgets (the correlation is extremely alarming) - not which ones are located in Florida and Texas. And if you look at the decline of teams like FSU and Miami, it's clear that other factors are in play and more evidence that the whole state thing is starting to decline.

I hope Dooley can convince some 5 star recruits that they can come to UT and make a difference right away or ride the bench at Bama, UF, FSU , etc, but if he doesn't turn this program's trajectory around soon, the crater may be too deep for us to recover.

See, that just makes no sense. If Dooley can't recruit elite players and win a ton of games in the next couple of games, we're doomed...FOREVER :scare:
 
#79
#79
flakxd said:
so how do we go about growing better recruits inside the state of Tennessee instead of having to find them in other states where we're at a disadvantage to the home schools.
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We need more black people to move to this state IMO
 
#80
#80
Will we ever be elite again? Probably. I don't know when, but yes, we probably will at some point.
 
#81
#81
The state of Alabama doesn't have that many more players then Tennessee.
Saban could have done at UT what he has done for the Univ of Alabama, i.e. win a NC.
UT would have had to pay the big bucks.....and didn't.
 
#82
#82
I don't think recruits care about the AD's checkbook - they care about playing for a winning program unless they have an emotional attachment for the team. The number of high quality recruits with a natural attachment to UT is low.

UT may have tons of cash, but it doesn't go directly to the "student athletes". Impressive stadiums and practice facilities won't sway a kid with no natural attachment for UT when he looks at the W/L record over the last 5 years (since his 13th birthday).

I think Dooley has 2 or 3 years, to turn the program around. I think a top 10 finish in 3 years and a major bowl victory would be a tremendous outcome. If Dooley doesn't turn it around in 3 years, he'll probably get fired and we start to look like Notre Dame. I hope I am horribly wrong about the future; only time will tell.
 
#84
#84
CountVolcula said:
How much talent did they inherite on those teams?

Was Fulmers UT team talent depleted? The Boy Kiffin inherited 7 NFLers on his roster, including skill positions.

I guess the SEC Champion talent that Majors left Fulmer was all gone and Fulmer had to start from scratch Nah, Fulmer built that team too

Terry Bowden had the best talent Pat Dye could buy

Les Miles had Saban recruiting to make himself look good

Mark Richt has Georgia talent

Franchoine had Bama talent and was a lucky SOB. Look what he has done since

Spurrier had a new offensive scheme that not many college coaches had seen before and he had the talent to make it work I'm glad to see the candle-lighters waking up to the reality of our situation.
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Your starts out ridiculous, but quickly improves. We need an elite recruiter at Tennessee. Despite all of the 3* with intangibles, when they had a chance to show all of that Dooley character, they imploded after halftime AGAIN.

I want a new "Dooley Rule" - the elimination of Halftime. If only the Needs of Capital would allow it....
 
#85
#85
CountVolcula said:
I ****ing hate idiot fans

Its not Dooleys fault you stupid *******s

We are a young team. We are going to go through the growing pains

You can tell who has never put on pads and played the game
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Only idiot here is you. What was the last win a coach got us? I'll shut up and Listen! Yes we need a coach who can out coach to win here!
 
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#86
#86
Maybe, but we may have went through a few more coaches by then. Dooley got put in a tough spot from the get go and may not weather the storm to see it through. People are just not willing to let a coach have 5 years to build something anymore. They want to win now. It's a leadership deal from the top down that got Tennessee were they're at.
 
#87
#87
When Kiffin bounced, we all know Dooley wasn't the first choice(or second). I can't speak for Dooley's ability to coach before he landed here... I know he's been around the game his entire life and that counts for something Im sure. I think what ultimately got him hired by Hamilton was the fact that he's a PR guy. Being the AD at la tech... the guy had to know how to be composed in front of a camera, and he does a marvelous job of talking with the press. I think that will help in recruiting.

I think Dooley is a good fit at Tennessee. He seems to have a lot of pride in being known as Tennessee's HC and I respect that. Im not so sure his staff is the right fit for him or us though. I think we'll see a staff change or two before Dooley is sent packing.

As poised as CDC has always seemed, we can't forget where he came from though... I know he saw big time games with Sabin, but to come from La Tech to Tennessee as the main shot caller is a bit of a culture shock... I think Dooley is just now settling into his role as a SEC head coach and im interested to see where that is going to lead.
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#88
#88
Obviously not everyone is going to favor the same coach. I really don't have a lot to say about who is hired but whoever supported the hiring of Kiffin must have went into hiding after his exit. I think most people will at least give Dooley 1-2 more years (I'm assuming he has the confidence of the new AD - if not his tenure may be shorter than expected), essentially time for our young team to grow a couple of years. BUT there will be performance indicators along the way. How will our recruiting class look each year? Are we addressing the right concerns? How is the development of our current talent pool progressing? I think Dooley has to crack the top 25 next year and and maybe even hold that ranking through the end of the season. He may not have to win the bowl game next year depending on who the underdog is but he surely should win it this year because I doubt we will be matched with an underdog and if he does not win then his stock will likely go down. The best he can do with the current SO class is maybe Top 10 preseason and Top 25 finish with a bowl win their SR year. I figure that makes us elite again. If he can develop a complete team with depth he may have a shot at the NC, if the ball bounces just right. - Anyway, the point is Bray & his class need to get to the Top 25 next year or the howl of the wolves will begin to drown out the Pride of the Southland Marching Band. JMO.

P.S. I think this is his opportunity and I'm not convinced he can't pull it off but if he doesn't then I figure we're back to the Battle years looking for Johnny to come home and win us a NC just like he did for Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh? WTF? Maybe it was Tony Dorsett after all. :)
 
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#89
#89
UTRavens said:
If by 'handful' you mean 1938, 1939, 1940, 1942, 1946, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1956, 1965, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1985, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2001, then yeah - only a handful.
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We won 10 games in 03 and 04 as well. You left those out champ. I am clear on our record btw. I merely confused elite with National Title. Please forgive me. But, by that count Fulmer had 8 elite seasons as coach and 2 as offensive coordinator. Not bad for the big guy huh?
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#90
#90
I remember hearing that since tn doesn't have a hotbed of talent in state that we HAVE to travel around the country to recruit, unlike uf, tx, bama, lsu, etc. But then I see teams like Boise build a program and get top recruits that are nfl bound. Then I see Miss St. turn into a bowl team every year. This has been going on for 7 year with the exception of 06. 07 was a fluke when we should have lost 2 or more games. Even Vandy has made progress. I just don't get it. Are we not a good place to go anymore? Have we became a black hole like ND? We have a great stadium and atmosphere. DO our facilities match up? How are our academics? For some reason with Fulmer, Kiffin, and Dooley, we have not been able to keep a full roster of talented players. It's been three years. Are there no stud upper classmen at all? No gamers besides Bray, Hunter, and Rogers?
 
#91
#91
Simple answer: No oline play. That is the only thing fron preventing us from being a gfood team this year.

Long answer: something to do with coaching....the oline play and missed tackles are inexcusable
 
#92
#92
Because we have talent level equal to South Carolina teams prior to Spurrier's arrival. A few great players surrounded by averageness.
 
#93
#93
VolFootballlover said:
Only idiot here is you. What was the last win a coach got us? I'll shut up and Listen! Yes we need a coach who can out coach to win here!
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By some of your posts, I could lay it out and you still wouldnt understand

You would be better set at following badminton or shuffleboard
 
#95
#95
flakxd said:
serious question. It's not the 1950's when there were only a couple powerhouses where all the best players went to (alabama, tennessee, michigan, notre dame, etc).



Tennessee has to recruit out of state players because there is absolutely no talent within the state. Is it just too hard to recruit an entire competitive/elite team all from outside the state? Will Tenn never be elite again until the state starts growing better athletes? Does the whole system (pop warner through high school) need to be fixed? What's the solution and why is the in-state talent so piss poor?
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We can be competetive with the big boys, but I don't think you'll ever see the 90's type dominance again...College football has changed, and we are at a natural disadvantage compared to our rivals...Has our state produced a player like Rainey...ever? He is a standard tailback prospect in FL.
 
#96
#96
program been through too much last couple of years and too many coaching changes and this and that!! dooley and his coaches are doing all they can do with what they got right now. i mean daggum just look at who's starting on the defensive line and at linebacker!! alabama struggled few a few good years before saban came to town. gotta give dooley and his coaches a chance to recruit more depth on the defensive line and more speed in the backfield.
 
#97
#97
Because we didn't just give the Head Coaching job to John Chavis when we had the chance. Now we are so far behind the curve that it will be 7 to 12 years before we are competing at a respectable level again.
 
#98
#98
volberry said:
...
Are there no stud upper classmen at all? ..
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No, not really. ( well, there are about 11/44 upperclassmen on the depth chart but younger guys are starting ahead of most of them. Poole is a Sr. The oline has one RS Jr starting, the rest are Fr & So. - I think 1 Sr & 2 Jr start on D, the rest are Fr & So.).
 
#99
#99
We missed a FG, Florida's kicker made all his. It is as simple as that, otherwise the last drive is for the win.

We competed fine just bad breaks.
 
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#100
#100
wilrob75 said:
We can be competetive with the big boys, but I don't think you'll ever see the 90's type dominance again...College football has changed, and we are at a natural disadvantage compared to our rivals...Has our state produced a player like Rainey...ever? He is a standard tailback prospect in FL.
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We will need a Powerful recruiting staff to dominate the SEC. Who is dominating now? Powerful recruiting staffs.
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