Will Better Olines Bring Great Backs

[Roustabout]

Then you also know that the year after they graduated...the Oline became bad because Dooley did not sign any Oline...and Butch has finally caught up the depth this coming season....don't hurl insults or accusations at CBJ because you don't like him

That excuse can only go for so long.
Kiffin's staff put together a better line with the Sullins brothers. Butch got two years with virtually no expectations due to Dooley. That ship has sailed.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Jones' has horribly under performed regarding the Oline. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. His first year he inherited at least 3 players who started in the NFL. He did little with that and it's been downhill since. I agree the talent level is up, but I have major doubts about Jones' offense and basic blocking schemes and philosophy.

If you think that's harsh, then you are the one with the wadding issue in your under garments.
And, given the context of this forum you obviously have no concept of harsh criticism.

When you say "Jones", is that CBJ specifically, or is it due to his scheme and the Asst. Coaches?

 

[Roustabout]

When you say "Jones", is that CBJ specifically, or is it due to his scheme and the Asst. Coaches?

Buck stops at Jones. Everyone knows this is Butch's offense and he stubbornly forced his system even when it showed major deficiencies in the SEC. He brought that loser Mahoney with him. Butch has an opportunity to retain Pittman and didn't even interview him. It took him four years to get rid of him and then has to replace him with a GA, and sadly it is an upgrade.
Had Jones done these things with his staff initially, we wouldn't be having these conversations because UT would be back to back east champions.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Buck stops at Jones. Everyone knows this is Butch's offense and he stubbornly forced his system even when it showed major deficiencies in the SEC. He brought that loser Mahoney with him. Butch has an opportunity to retain Pittman and didn't even interview him. It took him four years to get rid of him and then has to replace him with a GA, and sadly it is an upgrade.
Had Jones done these things with his staff initially, we wouldn't be having these conversations because UT would be back to back east champions.

That all might be true, but don't call it "east champions". We may have won the east back to back, but that don't make us champions. It would only qualify us to play for the SEC Championship.

CBJ started at a new Program, it's hard to blame him for bringing in his own staff and not giving Dooley's staff a single thought.

Bringing in people you know to run the system they have been around isn't the worst idea ever.

Kicking the FG instead of punching it in, or kicking the extra point instead of going for 2, sure I'll give you that, but not the staff selection at a new Program.

He should have always had a S&C and QB coach, but having the wrong one could be worse than not one at all.

 

[Caleb59seal]

:no: I don't know how old you are but no Webb would have been a all time SEC great if he didn't get hurt and COBB played several years in the NFL pump the brakes TY isn't even on campus yet and Kelley is just a average back put the cork back in the bottle before you drink to much.

You saying Kelly is an average back is nonsense....

 

[Burger]

The problem is a whole bunch of things.

 

[Roustabout]

That all might be true, but don't call it "east champions". We may have won the east back to back, but that don't make us champions. It would only qualify us to play for the SEC Championship.

CBJ started at a new Program, it's hard to blame him for bringing in his own staff and not giving Dooley's staff a single thought.

Bringing in people you know to run the system they have been around isn't the worst idea ever.

Kicking the FG instead of punching it in, or kicking the extra point instead of going for 2, sure I'll give you that, but not the staff selection at a new Program.

He should have always had a S&C and QB coach, but having the wrong one could be worse than not one at all.

Uh, Jay Graham. Well, he got the hell out of here and quick.
Staff selection is absolutely critical and has been a set back on Butch getting UT where it needs to be.

And it is East champions. It may not be the ultimate goal, but it's one Butch has yet to achieve. Nice that you can turn your nose up at such an accomplishment.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Uh, Jay Graham. Well, he got the hell out of here and quick.
Staff selection is absolutely critical and has been a set back on Butch getting UT where it needs to be.

And it is East champions. It may not be the ultimate goal, but it's one Butch has yet to achieve. Nice that you can turn your nose up at such an accomplishment.

Not turning my nose up to winning the east, but it's a no thank you for calling it a Championship or the ones that win the east Champs.

You're right, call it whatever you want.

 

[Boca Vol]

Uh, Jay Graham. Well, he got the hell out of here and quick.
Staff selection is absolutely critical and has been a set back on Butch getting UT where it needs to be.

And it is East champions. It may not be the ultimate goal, but it's one Butch has yet to achieve. Nice that you can turn your nose up at such an accomplishment.

I seriously doubt UF fans will hold the last 2 teams in very high regard...and they won the East. It's only considered "such an accomplishment" because UT hasn't done it in a while.

Not turning my nose up to winning the east, but it's a no thank you for calling it a Championship or the ones that win the east Champs.

You're right, call it whatever you want.

You have to call it something...plus it helps sell a few tshirts when you put SEC East Champs on it.

 

[Iam4utalways]

I seriously doubt UF fans will hold the last 2 teams in very high regard...and they won the East. It's only considered "such an accomplishment" because UT hasn't done it in a while.



You have to call it something...plus it helps sell a few tshirts when you put SEC East Champs on it.

My bad. I'm not trying to discount the accomplishments of the 2001 and 2007 Vols.

 

[Roustabout]

I seriously doubt UF fans will hold the last 2 teams in very high regard...and they won the East. It's only considered "such an accomplishment" because UT hasn't done it in a while.



You have to call it something...plus it helps sell a few tshirts when you put SEC East Champs on it.

I don't disagree with that. This is nonsense as that isn't the point at all. The point is that winning the east is better than not. And, I believe that if Butch had made better hires upon arriving he would have won the east twice instead of not at all. Trust me, I loathed the Fulmer nonsense about winning the east in his latter years. But, at this phase of the program an appearance in the SEC title game is a needed step and that doesn't happen without winning the East.

I could give two ****z about these other rabbit trail arguments.

 

[sjt18]

Our offensive line is looking like it could be stellar. We seem to have good experience and real depth in team 121. The following year we could boast a line with 3 5* players. Seems any running back would feel comfortable playing with that Oline. Do you think it will bring more highly rated running backs to TN in the next recruiting cycle?

The same was said last year.

But yes, if UT's OL improves it will definitely help RB recruiting.... and skill position recruiting overall.

 

[Doberman]

Chandler/Kelly will be right there with Cobb/Webb. Hopefully they are followed by the likes of Garner, Henry, Lewis and Stevens.

What exactly makes you think that?

Chandler -- who knows? Nobody.


And as unpopular as this is going to come off:

What exactly has John Kelly done, or what have you seen, that makes anyone think he is elite, or NFL caliber, or All-SEC even?

I mean, I like him a lot. I think he can, and will do the job. However, I think many of us are heaping undeserved praise, and certainly undeserved expectations on the young man.

 

[NCFisher]

You don't have to have 5 Stars to have a great line. You need good, gritty players, a solid scheme and cohesion.
Butch has done none. He appears to have some gritty players but I question the rest.

But a 5* line with grit, scheme, and cohesion will generally beat a 3.5* line with those same qualities.

 

[Roustabout]

But a 5* line with grit, scheme, and cohesion will generally beat a 3.5* line with those same qualities.

Uh, ok. don't over complicate. The point is simple. You don't have to have 5 star Oline men to be successful. I think the margins are much smaller on Oline than they are for skill positions and defense.

 

[ruger1234]

What exactly makes you think that?

Chandler -- who knows? Nobody.


And as unpopular as this is going to come off:

What exactly has John Kelly done, or what have you seen, that makes anyone think he is elite, or NFL caliber, or All-SEC even?

I mean, I like him a lot. I think he can, and will do the job. However, I think many of us are heaping undeserved praise, and certainly undeserved expectations on the young man.

Chandler looks great on film. I'm probably a little guilty of wearing my orange glasses there.

Kelly on the other hand has it all, excellent cutback runner with vision and balance. He has the ability to make guys miss and often fights through the ones that don't. Last year JK averaged .6/ypc more than a third round back running behind the same OL.

 

[81Orange]

Buck stops at Jones. Everyone knows this is Butch's offense and he stubbornly forced his system even when it showed major deficiencies in the SEC. He brought that loser Mahoney with him. Butch has an opportunity to retain Pittman and didn't even interview him. It took him four years to get rid of him and then has to replace him with a GA, and sadly it is an upgrade.
Had Jones done these things with his staff initially, we wouldn't be having these conversations because UT would be back to back east champions.

Do you think Jones had the freedom to do the things you say he should have done? Or perhaps he was financially constrained and had to accept a mid major staff budget until the program got back in the black.

As for his offensive system, check the stats and we see it has produced more than enough offense. D has been the problem and that is where he is spending the salary.

 

[smokey0625]

Chandler/Kelly will be right there with Cobb/Webb. Hopefully they are followed by the likes of Garner, Henry, Lewis and Stevens.

So silly to compare chandler to anybody yet. He's not even on campus.

 

[Roustabout]

Do you think Jones had the freedom to do the things you say he should have done? Or perhaps he was financially constrained and had to accept a mid major staff budget until the program got back in the black.

As for his offensive system, check the stats and we see it has produced more than enough offense. D has been the problem and that is where he is spending the salary.

Defense wasn't a problem until he got rid of Jancek. Granted, his hand may have been forced. I agree, overall, defense was a bigger set back last year.

I have no idea what the budget constraints were or weren't. I seem to recall UT ranking right up there in terms of staff salary.

The stats must be weighed in context. No huddle, hurry up offenses have obliterated stat books for many schools. It doesn't mean much.

My candid opinion is that Jones didn't have the mental make up, when he arrived, to assemble an SEC staff. I think he is a tireless worker, and hype machine, which worked well for rebuilding the roster. And probably his biggest attribute is he really understood how great a platform UT is for success. Fulmer had everybody convinced that UT was overly hard to recruit to

 

[sechamp2012]

What exactly makes you think that?

Chandler -- who knows? Nobody.


And as unpopular as this is going to come off:

What exactly has John Kelly done, or what have you seen, that makes anyone think he is elite, or NFL caliber, or All-SEC even?

I mean, I like him a lot. I think he can, and will do the job. However, I think many of us are heaping undeserved praise, and certainly undeserved expectations on the young man.

IMO and I'm about where you are on Kelly, Dober. Here's my take. Kelly has a great smile seems to be positive all the time and people just really like him and want him to succeed. The fumble on goal line vs A&M got little scrutiny. If it would have been Foster or some other unlikable player people come out of woodwork.
Take Sherion Jones transfers comes back transfers again but people love him because of the VT game and he got no negative digs. OTOH take Jumper 2nd or 3rd leading tackler last year and most on here basically call him a bum somehow he comes off as unlikeable may be red hair or his family well off but he plays hard gives it his all and still unlike moniker.
that's my take but I'm crossing my fingers for Kelly because he has such a great attitude and is so likeable..

 

[46yrvol]

While I don't Think that Kelly should be placed among the elites, a first round pick or even all SEC, I do think he has proven himself. I would call him all conference caliber however. Out side of Tn Tech, the play he was involved in was not mop up duty. A&M did not know how to defend the package of kamara and Kelly(Dobbs and Kamara turned the ball over a lot also) If I had to identify a bright spot in the SC game, it would be Kelly even though the o-line didn't want to block for any one that night. The offense was sloppy in the first quarter against Neb, dropping passes and penalties, until Kelly broke the scoring ice. The point is that his 6.4 ypc on 98 carries, I believe to be very significant and there should be no reason to think he wouldn't give you 12-14 hundred yds in a season as a starter.

While I agree he shouldn't yet be placed among the elite until we see him carry the load as a starter, neither do I think he should be trivialized. Judging what he has done with the opportunity he has been given, what does a guy have to do to prove himself?

 

[Vol423]

Our offensive line is looking like it could be stellar. We seem to have good experience and real depth in team 121. The following year we could boast a line with 3 5* players. Seems any running back would feel comfortable playing with that Oline. Do you think it will bring more highly rated running backs to TN in the next recruiting cycle?

Hmmm...How many times have I heard the "stellar offensive line this year story" over the last 10-15 years only to see the next reiteration of Swiss cheese?

The Butch Jones team has done a solid job of recruiting, but has shown no ability whatsoever to coach up an offensive line. I don't expect this year's version to be any different.

 

[Vol423]

When you say "Jones", is that CBJ specifically, or is it due to his scheme and the Asst. Coaches?

What a loser mentality. Butch Jones is the CEO of this organization. He runs the organization, and he is FULLY responsible for the results. He hired his staff. They are running his offense. Jones, his coaching philosophies, and the atrocious game day decisions are the failures in this organization.

 

[Vol423]

That all might be true, but don't call it "east champions". We may have won the east back to back, but that don't make us champions. It would only qualify us to play for the SEC Championship.

Okay. I'll cut you some slack with this at least this portion of your post. There is no such thing as SEC East Champions.

 

[Vol423]

What exactly makes you think that?

Chandler -- who knows? Nobody.


And as unpopular as this is going to come off:

What exactly has John Kelly done, or what have you seen, that makes anyone think he is elite, or NFL caliber, or All-SEC even?

I mean, I like him a lot. I think he can, and will do the job. However, I think many of us are heaping undeserved praise, and certainly undeserved expectations on the young man.

He's going to be sporting a UT jersey next year. That alone is enough for way too many UT fans to claim he is the next all time great running back. The fact of the matter is that at this particular point in time, a huge percentage of this fan base wasn't alive the last time this organization had a truly great running back.