Why the talk about firing DOOLEY???

#51
#51
Orange Blazer said:
Actually you did criticize that he wasn't our first choice. Just saying. :) Also its hard to say the talent is not that far apart when over half of Kiffin's class is no longer here. It is a smaller gap, but it is still there.
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I was critical with that and I stand by that statement but I still like him. Was he the first choice?
 
#53
#53
BelAirVol said:
Lets see some proof of this statement

Just because YOU weren't happy with Kiffin doesn't make YOU right about your assessment. Hey, I agree Kiffin was a punk and am glad he is gone, but at the time, most anyone IN THE KNOW thought Kiffin was a good hire mainly because he brought a staff in much more compentent than the previous one.

Whether YOU like it or not, Dooley was a good hire. He has this program back on track. Only a fool would believe you can get back to national relevance immediately. This isn't the 90s anymore.
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Was he? I am not ready to say he was a good hire or a bad hire.
 
#54
#54
Orange Blazer said:
The only offer we know for sure happened was to Muschamp, and after his display Saturday Im glad he turned us down.
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I have heard about a few others but yes I am right there with you on that, I would rather have Kiffin back over Muschamp that guy is very mentally unstable. He won't make it 3 seasons
 
#56
#56
You know, sometimes I think Tennessee is cursed. I really do. It's like we sold our soul to the devil in order to win it all in '98. Tennessee has become the poster child for Murphy's Law since then. There is not a doubt in my mind we would have won that game with Hunter, and yet again we are left saying "Wait till next year." I still think we can still have a good season, and I believe Dooley and Co. are doing a good job for the most part. We will eventually turn the corner, and when we do, it will be awesome!
 
#57
#57
Fijivol72 said:
which there is no evidence that either is happening. We continue to come out for the game and look like the keystone cops, if you call that improvemnt or good coaching then that is your problem. Mark this down Vandy will beat us this year with a first year coach who gets how to get people excited and forgets the homespun bs Dooley sprouts. By the way he took this job for a hugh pay increase and a chance to coach in the SEC. The thought that he did us a favor is bs. Our schemes are so basic on both offense and defense a first year GA could gameplan around them. Where is the heat on defense? Where is the offensive push, where are the special teams play? And don't even get me started on recruiting the great Dooley plan we just saw what those 2 and 3 stars look like against 4 and 5 stars and it isn't pretty. Thank goodness for Tyler Bray and a weak out of conference schedule so Dooley the great could keep his job but it is 6-6 at best.
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Want to know why?... Here's your answer.

You are always going to have ill-informed/mis-informed loud mouths chirping in every time something negative happens.

For instance, CDD signed four 2* players in his first class primarily because he only had 2 1/2 weeks to finish the class.... He also signed several 4* guys and a 5* guy during that period. Two of those guys have earned PT (primarily ST's). He signed one 2* player as a project in the '11 class who DID NOT PLAY Sat.

Of the players signed in the last two years who participated Saturday... 22 total... 15 were 4/5*. Yet Fiji would promote the false impression that UT was beaten because UF's 4/5* beat up on a bunch of 2*scrubs.

That said, there is a talent disparity still because of the situation Dooley inherited. That limits gameplanning as does going on the road for the first time with such a young team. They obviously gameplanned offensively around Hunter and then he went down.

If we are still seeing these types of reasons next year or the next then it will be time to talk about a new coach. If Dooley hasn't beaten someone significant by the end of year three then I will be saying it is time to cut the losses. However, there's no team that could take the loss of a player of Hunter's caliber with no problems. It is completely IRRATIONAL to expect a team like UT to have done so at UF this past weekend.

Of course "rational" isn't what drives people who make posts like these.
 
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#58
#58
volfanjustin said:
Can't argue the numbers, if he was so great (and I sure hope he turns out to be) why wasn't he the first call they made, they got turned down by several coaches before they made it down to him on the list. He did play a tough schedule out of conference but still does not explain the losses to in conference teams. I am sure you all defending him were the same ones that when me and others were not happy with Kiffin you all were defending him also. It is ok to have criticisms of the coach and not to be blinded by just because he is the coach here you have to be fine and agree with everything that happens. Losing is never ok and acceptable to me this is a program that should expect more.
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By tradition UT is a Top 10 program. In realistic terms, UT wouldn't have been in the Top 30 jobs in the country. Expectations are too high for most any coach. Talent wasn't there... much less a full roster. Recruiting is brutal. SEC teams have won how many of the last 10 national championships? That's who we're going up against. Also consider there was a looming NCAA investigation that was also an enormous '*' behind any coaches job... even if we had had the talent to compete with other SEC schools. We have tradition, fanbase and facilities. That's it.

UT was a job most people wouldn't even remotely consider without a $6mil/year offer. It would be like being expected to take a company that is in a dying industry and make it a competitor to Wal-Mart within 3 years. That's what the fanbase expects because we haven't won anything in so long.

So, honestly, while Dooley isn't my top choice... none of my top choices would have considered UT without laughing or being mortally drunk. Long story short... we're lucky to have Dooley considering how much crap this program was in. He is, at a minimum, stocking the cabinets with legit players that are quality on and off the field. Players like Jackson are fantastic to have but are worthless when they're kicked off the team for pot. He's doing it and he's doing it right. Those are simply the facts. Wins come last in this equation.

VolunteerHillbilly said:
Devil's advocate question: Urban Meyer suddenly decides he misses coaching and personally calls the UTAD and asks if they'd consider giving him the job. What's the call?
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No. Without Tebow, Dan Mullen and Charlie Strong Florida was simply average last year. They had a good overall Defense because stats were padded through bad teams. Teams with good offenses pretty much had their way with Meyer. Their Offense, the fabled outcome of the Meyer system, finished at #82. Even with the terrible teams.


Meyer saw the writing on the wall. He saw Alabama as a legit competitor. For years his only real competition was an off-on Les Miles led LSU. Saban is legit and absolutely donkeypunched Meyer every time they faced off. Meyer wouldn't take the Tennessee job for $7.5mil/year.

This isn't even considering we have nowhere near the personnel needed to use his system.
 
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#59
#59
volfanjustin said:
Was he? I am not ready to say he was a good hire or a bad hire.
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I'm not either. He's a good hire only when he actually wins games against the SEC's top tier. He's a bad hire only after he's given at least 3 years to do so and fails.
 
#60
#60
sjt18 said:
Want to know why?... Here's your answer.

You are always going to have ill-informed/mis-informed loud mouths chirping in every time something negative happens.

For instance, CDD signed four 2* players in his first class primarily because he only had 2 1/2 weeks to finish the class.... He also signed several 4* guys and a 5* guy during that period. Two of those guys have earned PT (primarily ST's). He signed one 2* player as a project in the '11 class who DID NOT PLAY Sat.

Of the players signed in the last two years who participated Saturday... 22 total... 15 were 4/5*. Yet Fiji would promote the false impression that UT was beaten because UF's 4/5* beat up on a bunch of 2*scrubs.

That said, there is a talent disparity still because of the situation Dooley inherited. That limits gameplanning as does going on the road for the first time with such a young team. They obviously gameplanned offensively around Hunter and then he went down.

If we are still seeing these types of reasons next year or the next then it will be time to talk about a new coach. If Dooley hasn't beaten someone significant by the end of year three then I will be saying it is time to cut the losses. However, there's no team that could take the loss of a player of Hunter's caliber with no problems. It is completely IRRATIONAL to expect a team like UT to have done so at UF this past weekend.

Of course "rational" isn't what drives people who make posts like these.
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Not to mention The Swamp is not the place to institute complicated blitz/coverage schemes to a defense primarily comprised of Fresh/Sophomores.

sjt18 said:
I'm not either. He's a good hire only when he actually wins games against the SEC's top tier. He's a bad hire only after he's given at least 3 years to do so and fails.
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To be perfectly honest I'm pretty much approaching this as his first year. This year is at or near about the bottom end of how most coaches inherit a program. People forget that Bama was much more successful and stocked when Saban took over. Same with Meyer at Florida and Chizik at Auburn. Hell, Malzhan is Auburn and Chizik will be exposed when Malzhan eventually leaves.
 
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#61
#61
Orange Blazer said:
Last year is last year.

We dont have spread players.

Where is the hidden potential that Dooley and Chaney are missing that you have so easily discovered?
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Yes. IMO, they need to change the run blocking schemes and concepts to be more aggressive.
 
#62
#62
Orange Blazer said:
Last year is last year.

We dont have spread players.

Where is the hidden potential that Dooley and Chaney are missing that you have so easily discovered?
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If we are going to be passing the ball 75% of the time, why the pretense of a running game with a FB and TE and play action pass? No one is fooled by this. We need Bray in the shotgun with 3 or 4 WR's, thats the only offense UT has that works.
 
#63
#63
Fijivol72 said:
which there is no evidence that either is happening. We continue to come out for the game and look like the keystone cops, if you call that improvemnt or good coaching then that is your problem. Mark this down Vandy will beat us this year with a first year coach who gets how to get people excited and forgets the homespun bs Dooley sprouts. By the way he took this job for a hugh pay increase and a chance to coach in the SEC. The thought that he did us a favor is bs. Our schemes are so basic on both offense and defense a first year GA could gameplan around them. Where is the heat on defense? Where is the offensive push, where are the special teams play? And don't even get me started on recruiting the great Dooley plan we just saw what those 2 and 3 stars look like against 4 and 5 stars and it isn't pretty. Thank goodness for Tyler Bray and a weak out of conference schedule so Dooley the great could keep his job but it is 6-6 at best.
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Loser leave town between you and I on the vandy game?
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#64
#64
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Devil's advocate question: Urban Meyer suddenly decides he misses coaching and personally calls the UTAD and asks if they'd consider giving him the job. What's the call?
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No. Meyer proved he could use other coaches' players and succeed. Over his time at UF... his O progressively became more and more... Tebow and not much else. Basically, as many of us predicted, SEC DC's figured his O out and had the personnel to stop it.

IMHO, he would be absolutely horrible with UT's roster.
 
#65
#65
BelAirVol said:
Just because YOU weren't happy with Kiffin doesn't make YOU right about your assessment. Hey, I agree Kiffin was a punk and am glad he is gone, but at the time, most anyone IN THE KNOW thought Kiffin was a good hire mainly because he brought a staff in much more compentent than the previous one.
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Remind me who these people "in the know" are.

And then remind me to fire all their azzes if they haven't already been given my size 10 hobnail boot.
 
#68
#68
sjt18 said:
I'm not either. He's a good hire only when he actually wins games against the SEC's top tier. He's a bad hire only after he's given at least 3 years to do so and fails.
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Based on that logic, Dooley can do absolutely whatever he wants this season and his decisions would be irrelevant along with any other criticism he is receiving. He is a good hire. Period.
 
#69
#69
Orange Blazer said:
I agree with the run blocking schemes, but to say we need to completely change the offense is off base.
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If I understand what they're trying to do... this would represent as close to completely changing the O as a team is likely to do during a season.
 
#70
#70
HSVol said:
What does that have to do with anything? Is the "first" choice a guarantee of success or something?
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No, but the problem is we fired the best coach TN had had since the General.

And The Plan was to hire Lane Kiffin's Daddy. Which resulted in a Lost Year for the Vols.

When you fire your second greatest coach in the middle of the season, you'd better have a real plan, a near certain #1, and someone, who, like Fulmer makes the team immediately better.

This is the problem. I can understand the SECCG every three years wasn't good enough. But if you are going to change, you better damn well make sure you hire a proven winner, and you better be damn sure your choice is likely to come when called.

Or, like Hambone, you can hire the guy who makes Al Davis look sane.

:clapping:
 
#71
#71
Someday Hamilton will write a tell all book about everything that went down from the Fulmer firing through his resignation. Until then, none of us really know who was offered what or at what time. We all heard names. We all heard public statements of disinterest. Some of it may have been posturing for salary increases and some of it may have been legitimate. We got who we got and he's here for at least 2-3 more seasons. In the mean time he's stocking the pantry with the cans of corn that he or the next guy is going to need as a base to build the program around.
 
#72
#72
utgibbs said:
No, but the problem is we fired the best coach TN had had since the General.

And The Plan was to hire Lane Kiffin's Daddy. Which resulted in a Lost Year for the Vols.

When you fire your second greatest coach in the middle of the season, you'd better have a real plan, a near certain #1, and someone, who, like Fulmer makes the team immediately better.

This is the problem. I can understand the SECCG every three years wasn't good enough. But if you are going to change, you better damn well make sure you hire a proven winner, and you better be damn sure your choice is likely to come when called.

Or, like Hambone, you can hire the guy who makes Al Davis look sane.

:clapping:
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It's time to move on from Fulmer. It's been 4 years.
 
#73
#73
JohnMarxism said:
Based on that logic, Dooley can do absolutely whatever he wants this season and his decisions would be irrelevant along with any other criticism he is receiving. He is a good hire. Period.
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Didn't say anything that would lead to this response.

EVERY decision he makes or doesn't make is relevant.

I'm not saying they should have chosen differently... but the decision to run a large portion of the game plan through Hunter contributed to the UF loss. That was a RELEVANT decision. It was a calculated risk to spend time on plays with Hunter rather than contingencies in case Hunter got hurt.

"Good hire"/"bad hire" depend on one thing and one thing alone... wins. I think DD is doing things that should lead to winning. But you have to eventually judge guys on their bottom line. Right now, he has not proven he can beat the teams that UT must beat to win championships. He has to do that.
 
#74
#74
well for you ppl looking to fire dooley,sucks to be you. 1 thing i saw that hurt us was,a true freshmen linebacker that missed an assignment and allowed a long touchdown. take that away and its a 3 point game. next make a fieldgoal for christ's sake and looky there tie ball game. dont lose hunter and wow the possibilities
 
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#75
#75
sjt18 said:
Didn't say anything that would lead to this response.

EVERY decision he makes or doesn't make is relevant.

I'm not saying they should have chosen differently... but the decision to run a large portion of the game plan through Hunter contributed to the UF loss. That was a RELEVANT decision. It was a calculated risk to spend time on plays with Hunter rather than contingencies in case Hunter got hurt.

"Good hire"/"bad hire" depend on one thing and one thing alone... wins. I think DD is doing things that should lead to winning. But you have to eventually judge guys on their bottom line. Right now, he has not proven he can beat the teams that UT must beat to win championships. He has to do that.
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He needs to do it sooner than later. Positive news is LSU likely again will be undefeated when we play them in a rematch. A excellent early birthday present for me beat the Tigers making a statement. Not just beat them I want it to be recreating what the Titans did to the Ravens this Past Sunday except score more than 2 tds.
 
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