Why so difficult?

[PACKERVOL]

I wonder if we incorporated a signing bonus into our contract if it would help lure out some of these coaches that need more motivation. Say a 5 Million $ signing bonus on top of salary. Just a thought, and probably a silly one .

 

[vols-1]

TN passed up solid coaches like Brian Kelly after Fulmer left in order to swing for the fences. The problem now is once you swing for the fences and strike out then you have to keep swinging for the fences with up and comers.

 

[jimed1]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

What are you expecting? Unless the hire is someone that is currently not coaching at another school, there will not be an announcement of the new coach until after the season is over and maybe not until after the conference championship games are played.

Have you never paid attention to the way this process works? Do you think someone like Gary Patterson is going to just happen to mention that he interviewed for the UT job and will be leaving TCU to take the job as soon as the season is over. It doesn't work that way.

Lastly, UT is not the only place with a rabid fan base, a humongous athletic budget, and some of the best facilities. We are only special to ourselves and if you look around at other programs right now I don't think we are in the top 15 in the country and barely top 5 in the SEC. Our fan base has brainwashed themselves into thinking we are the best looking girl at the dance and we clearly are not.

 

[AM64]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

Quit playing the victim; it's unbecoming for this fan base. Look no further than the choices made for the last two (and now maybe three) ADs as the reason for poor coaching choices. It has nothing to do with resources, it has everything to do with little minds and poor application of resources.

 

[AM64]

Why do you think it is difficult?

Most of them coaches are happy where they are currently employed.

Just because we want them doesn't mean that they and their families want to leave their current situation. Throwing money at them is nice, but let's face it none of them are hurting for money, money is never an issue when talking about a head coaches salary.

We have a very undereducated fan base. The fans think that they know who the successful coaches are, but the fans have no idea other than a few names that they have heard. There are many successful coaches that the fans know nothing about that are beating Currie's door down to get an interview.

Fans are often mistaken about successful coaches, they go on name recognition, not success. Gruden is a prime example. Great name recognition, mediocre resume.

Time to have faith that Currie will make a solid hire. He hasan't had the opportunity to hire a UT football coach before, but except for Hamilton and Hart, UT ADs have a history of making home run hires.

UT ADs were historically ex HCs, too - not some business school bozo.

 

[volmanNC]

Let's cut to the chase. We'll get a coach and the sunshine pumpers will rejoice, the Butch defenders will claim that the hire sucks and the admin should have kept Jones, and the Nega Vols will continue to hate and swear they'll never give another dime to the scalpers outside of Neyland.

So, whoever Currie picks will be our coach so we might as well embrace him and make him feel welcome.

Are there really ANY Butch defenders? Please come forth if so!! How could anyone defend this guy?

 

[Rudy123]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

(1) Administration (2) Over Passionate fans that can get to the point of disrespect (3) schedule of Alabama, Florida & UGA each year.

 

[volboy81]

Most of the best are in situations where they have no desire to leave. Saban, Meyer, Swinney. They are treated like royalty in comparable programs.

Secondly, our fanbase is a double edged sword. We have the most committed fanbase in the world but that also means we can go a little crazy sometimes. Even back as far as the 1970s we were sending moving vans to coaches houses.

Third, even though the best coaches are egomaniacs, our schedule is scary every year. Our schedule is usually one of the tougher ones in the nation, and the powers that be bunch up our toughest games. In any given year, we could face three or four top 15 teams by Halloween.

Fourth, while we are a football school, unlike Bama, the Barn, or even Oklahoma St.; we don't speak with one voice from the power brokers. From the administration, to the big money boosters, everyone has their own agenda.

Finally, unlike the media in Tuscaloosa or Gainesville, the media in Knoxville talks down our program. None of them want to be considered homers, and in fact two of the most senior members of the media in Knoxville aren't even Tennessee fans.

All of this makes it more difficult than elsewhere.

I can't stand our local media...they're SO afraid they might paint a good picture of the Vols!

 

[Hank Bukowski]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

Fair question and I don't think any of us have any answers. We can only guess. Maybe there is fear of our history of unstable leadership at the university, with us having like 30 presidents in the last 20 years?

Maybe there is fear of our rabid fan base and how quickly they will turn on a coach? Maybe it's the "win now or else" expectations?

Maybe it's having a weak AD ever since Dickey left?
Maybe it's how we've treated our coaches the last 20 years?

Maybe it's the demands of recruiting, mostly out of state?

Maybe some combination of all of the above?

With the buyouts we've been paying, one would think coaches might judge it worth the risk, all things considered.

Unfortunately, unless Currie is for real and he can align the stars, I see us getting another lab experiment as our next coach.

 

[ATX_VOL]

Panic much??

UT is in a bad way because it has to replace a coach the first year of the early signing period. That is unchartered waters. If not for that I think UT would look towards someone like a Doug Marrone, but they don't have the luxury of hiring an NFL guy.

Aside from that, you have to find a proven winner who can greatly improve their situation. 7-8 years ago that was still hard, but easier than today. Now, with the TV contracts a program like TCU can pay Patterson 5 million and have 40k in attendance. If you think about that it's crazy. Based on that they should be paying under $2 million.

Consider that Dan Mullen is making 4.25 at MSU. That's insane. The only motivation is to work from a better platform.

So, the only route is to hire an up and comer out of a school from a lower conference, find a coach who is disgruntled, looking for a bigger stage, or promote a coordinator.

The other factor are the buyouts. When a guy like Campbell has a $9.4 million buyout, you've entered the twilight zone. Kudos to Iowa State.

That's why I would seriously consider a Les Miles who you could get at a bargain, or a Chip Kelly, baggage or not.

That's why LSU ended up with Orgeron and UGA went with Smart. For UT to think they are above this is ridiculous.

Stop being delusional. UT is not stealing away a great coach. Better programs haven't been able to do it.

I now live in Austin, TX -The lesser UT talked for years about getting Saban and that never happened, even with all their big bucks. Tennessee would be better off looking toward the NFL for coaching talent. What makes recruiting happen at the college level is getting guys into the NFL.

 

[AM64]

Fair question and I don't think any of us have any answers. We can only guess. Maybe there is fear of our history of unstable leadership at the university, with us having like 30 presidents in the last 20 years?

Maybe there is fear of our rabid fan base and how quickly they will turn on a coach? Maybe it's the "win now or else" expectations?

Maybe it's having a weak AD ever since Dickey left?
Maybe it's how we've treated our coaches the last 20 years?

Maybe it's the demands of recruiting, mostly out of state?

Maybe some combination of all of the above?

With the buyouts we've been paying, one would think coaches might judge it worth the risk, all things considered.

Unfortunately, unless Currie is for real and he can align the stars, I see us getting another lab experiment as our next coach.

I don't think it needs all the mental gymnastics. I'd just go with your "weak ADs" but call them completely incompetent ADs.

The football program at UT enables all the other UT athletic programs, so the most fundamental job is ensuring the success of the football program, and coaching is the key. If the AD can't find and keep a talented football HC, he's worthless as an AD. If the AD wasn't a relatively successful football HC, you are at least halfway to screwed right out of the gate.

 

[OriginalCoach]

Quit playing the victim; it's unbecoming for this fan base. Look no further than the choices made for the last two (and now maybe three) ADs as the reason for poor coaching choices. It has nothing to do with resources, it has everything to do with little minds and poor application of resources.

Nobody is playing the vicim here, just asking an honest question. But I do believe your response nails it.

When Joe Castiiglione took over as AD at Oklahoma, the football program was at a low. He gambles on Stoops and it turns out well. He hires a known in-state HS girls BB coach (Coale) to take over a program that was actually dropped (attendence 100 or less) and she took them to 3 final fours. Hires a JUCO softball coach in Gasso and has 4 Nattys and several WCWS appearances and loaded for more runs. Hires Lon Kruger who is pretty established in Men's BB coaching ranks. Hires a men and women's gymnastics coaches that has won back to back Nattys. Tennis, golf, baseball, etc competition is strongest it's been in years.

Although I feel he could have handled the Mixon thing MUCH better, it is what it is and it seems he came thru it. Castiglione may have gotten lucky with Stoops hire, who knows. Dumb luck maybe. But he's been able to sort and pick out coaches that are competitive and winning, probably the reason he was chosen as AD of the year by all AD's.

So, does Currie have the same moxie? Both were AD's at Big 12 schools (Currie @ K-State and Castiglione @ Mizzou before Mizzou went SEC). Remains to be seen. But I do believe the answer does lie with the AD.

 

[jonnon111]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

Everything doesn't operate on the "right now" demands of today. Take your time. Do it right.



And just to entertain your hand wringing, why would a coach want to come here?

1) everyone has nice facilities

2) unreasonable and seemingly insatiable fan base. (Flame away and yes Butch deserved to be fired). We will not play for a NC next year either.

3). We play Bama every year and if we beat them we have a distinct possibility of playing them for a second time.

4). break out the list of 3 years or less coaches so we can use them as examples of why our coach sucks
5) oh yeah, don't forget the slandering of a mans character because he doesn't win enough football games.
6) saying coach speak, that everyone including Saban mumbles, will get you tarred and feathered.
7) Our fans turn on the team when chips are down (booing at home, and #emptyNeyland)

Other than that and the pressure cooker of the SEC, what's not to love?

 

[99gator]

Because elite winners are hard to find. And on a lot of occasions, due to timing, someone else got them first. We can argue all day about which big job is better than another, but if you are being honest, they are pretty much lateral moves. If you are winning and getting paid, you usually don't make a lateral move.

Technically, looking at Florida and Tennessee, there was only one hire made for both schools combined in the last 40 years that was any good that was the result of a "search".

Since the mid 70's, Tennessee called Johnny back home. He was an alumnus. That doesn't count. Then, Fulmer. Same thing. Kiffen, Doooley, and Jones were all failures.

For Florida....Doug Dickey. He was an alumnus and that didn't pan out. Charley Pell.....who won, but got Florida placed on probation. Galen Hall won with the players Charley got and lost when probation hit. Spurrier. An alumnus. That doesn't count. Zook. Fail. Meyer, the only hire for either school that worked out without having the "in" of being an alumnus. Muschamp. Fail. McElwain. Fail.

It's not easy.

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

It usually boils down to assigned parking.

 

[Wii60]

Because elite winners are hard to find. And on a lot of occasions, due to timing, someone else got them first. We can argue all day about which big job is better than another, but if you are being honest, they are pretty much lateral moves. If you are winning and getting paid, you usually don't make a lateral move.

Technically, looking at Florida and Tennessee, there was only one hire made for both schools combined in the last 40 years that was any good that was the result of a "search".

Since the mid 70's, Tennessee called Johnny back home. He was an alumnus. That doesn't count. Then, Fulmer. Same thing. Kiffen, Doooley, and Jones were all failures.

For Florida....Doug Dickey. He was an alumnus and that didn't pan out. Charley Pell.....who won, but got Florida placed on probation. Galen Hall won with the players Charley got and lost when probation hit. Spurrier. An alumnus. That doesn't count. Zook. Fail. Meyer (the only hire for either school that worked out without having the "in" of being an alumnus. Muschamp. Fail. McElwain. Fail.

It's not easy.

It's apples and oranges though. You guys don't have a Robert Neyland in your history. We have a much longer record of success than you do.

You've hit on some good points- its a tough gig, but it all pretty much boils down to AD mismanagement. Dickey ran a great ship and Hamilton sunk it. I think Florida is in for a rough stretch now after screwing over MacElwain.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

I think previous issues were due to money. We were paying hefty buyouts and didn't want to pay top end prices on top of that. Also, reportedly Charlie Strong was our top option (other than Gruden) and for whatever reason, negotiations fell apart at the last minute. Several people were reporting Strong had agreed to become the coach, then the next day or so, everything fell apart. Even Swain admits this.

If we don't let money get in the way, we can have our pick, imo. The questions then become, who is our top choice and how much are we willing to spend?

MONEY HAS NOT BEEN THE PROBLEM FOR THE LAST TWO HIRES. The top coaches we offered top money the last two hires and they turned us down. If I was a top coach and not a Tennessee alum, I probably would have also turned us down. Our so-called fans send moving vans to coaches homes. draw petitions to get fire coaches so we might rehire a coach who was dismissed for cause, children of coaches are picked on by idiot fan's children, fans want Tennessee to lose games so they might be fired, and the media are always looking for ANY excuse to bash our teams and coaches. We have gotten what our fans deserve with the last three hires. We only have to look in the mirror to see a reason why it is difficult to hire a top notch coach, especially in football. Flame away, but the truth is hard to digest sometimes.

 

[hog88]

Let's see....UT has:
Some of the best facilities
Rabid fan base
Humongous athletic budget

So why can't TN attract big name coaches with successful resumes? Seems like coaches would be lining up outside the AD office instead of UT lining up outside a coaches office like a cold calling salesman, waiting to make a pitch.

Outside of Saban, who was the last “big name” coach hired in the SEC?

 

[99gator]

It's apples and oranges though. You guys don't have a Robert Neyland in your history. We have a much longer record of success than you do.

You've hit on some good points- its a tough gig, but it all pretty much boils down to AD mismanagement. Dickey ran a great ship and Hamilton sunk it. I think Florida is in for a rough stretch now after screwing over MacElwain.

My only point is that hiring a head coach isn't easy. We tend to forget that because when you have a successful coach, they stick around longer than they do for an NFL franchise.

From 1976-2008, Tennessee had 2 football coaches.

Having looked it up, Tennessee has had one successful coach since Neyland that wasn't an alumnus (Doug Dickey)

Harvey Robinson (alumnus)
Bowden Wyatt (alumnus)
Jim McDonald (coached 1 year)
Doug Dickey
Bill Battle
Johnny Majors (alumnus)
Phil Fulmer (alumnus)
Lane Kiffin
Derek Dooley
Butch Jones

 

[volmark]

Coach O basically said he and Kiffy drew a 5 hour wide circle around Knoxville and was very impressed with the talent possibilities in those areas.

The "hard to recruit here" Is over stated.

Yeah F ing MSU has been getting all our dam linemen outta memphis bro... another good reason to get Dan the Man

MsU straight up owns memphis

 

[AM64]

My only point is that hiring a head coach isn't easy. We tend to forget that because when you have a successful coach, they stick around longer than they do for an NFL franchise.

From 1976-2008, Tennessee had 2 football coaches.

Having looked it up, Tennessee has had one successful coach since Neyland that wasn't an alumnus (Doug Dickey)

Harvey Robinson (alumnus)
Bowden Wyatt (alumnus)
Jim McDonald (coached 1 year)
Doug Dickey
Bill Battle
Johnny Majors (alumnus)
Phil Fulmer (alumnus)
Lane Kiffin
Derek Dooley
Butch Jones

The interesting thing about Dickey's path to UT was that Dickey played football at FL when Bob Woodruff was the FL coach. Frank Broyles was an asst coach at FL under Woodruff, and later Dickey was an asst at AR under Broyles when Woodruff (then AD at UT) hired him as HC at UT. That personal connection and knowledge of coaching circles is how you recognize and track talent and likely successes.

If you personally know someone, how they play, how they coach; then you are far beyond the crapshoot that the coaching search process gives you. That's why UT's ex-coach ADs performed far better than any business type ADs have; the ex-coaches knew the profession, and business grads don't.

 

[thehill98]

Panic much??

UT is in a bad way because it has to replace a coach the first year of the early signing period. That is unchartered waters. If not for that I think UT would look towards someone like a Doug Marrone, but they don't have the luxury of hiring an NFL guy.

Aside from that, you have to find a proven winner who can greatly improve their situation. 7-8 years ago that was still hard, but easier than today. Now, with the TV contracts a program like TCU can pay Patterson 5 million and have 40k in attendance. If you think about that it's crazy. Based on that they should be paying under $2 million.

Consider that Dan Mullen is making 4.25 at MSU. That's insane. The only motivation is to work from a better platform.

So, the only route is to hire an up and comer out of a school from a lower conference, find a coach who is disgruntled, looking for a bigger stage, or promote a coordinator.

The other factor are the buyouts. When a guy like Campbell has a $9.4 million buyout, you've entered the twilight zone. Kudos to Iowa State.

That's why I would seriously consider a Les Miles who you could get at a bargain, or a Chip Kelly, baggage or not.

That's why LSU ended up with Orgeron and UGA went with Smart. For UT to think they are above this is ridiculous.

Stop being delusional. UT is not stealing away a great coach. Better programs haven't been able to do it.

Good point about the money other programs can pay now. I think most p5 programs can now match any reasonable increases in pay. This leaves us with increasing pay drastically, hiring an up and comer, getting someone who wants out of their situation, or hiring someone not currently employed. Several p5 programs can offer opportunities that were once not as easily offered because of increased money.

 

[photovol]

Coaches see the product on the field and surmise that a major rebuild is going to be required for the Vols, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that......big work ahead:loco:

 

[Bob Neyland]

The UT job is not as attractive as it was 20 years ago. Why?

- UT is a program that is run by the school directly. Most are not.
- Poor recruiting base. Yes, lots of kids in neighboring states ... but not strong in state
- Unregulated boosters. It's a 5 man cabal that runs things.
- Very tough competition (GA, FLA, BAMA) every year

I don't see UT hiring a marquee name. Probably an up and comer, disgraced NFL coach, or a coordinator.

 

[CAVPUT]

Several posters tried to tell folks that no matter when Butch got canned, it had nothing to do with the timing in hiring a replacement. It was never going to happen before the regular seasons end for our choice at the earliest. Unless it was Kelly....and I don't think UT wants him or Gruden...and that was never going to happen. Guy is an attention ho and trolled the fans and media. He's just enjoying the love and keeping options and leverage points in play. Good business decision, but he's clearly looking out for number one. Speaking only for myself, I'm sick of the guy. Tired of his name and his face. If fans want a pro guy, Marrone is more affordable and gettable than Gruden, but fans don't care about anything other than winning the press conference. Silly.

Right now, I think Kelly really wants an NFL gig. He's got two nice college jobs sitting there in UF and UCLA yet he's not signed. Is he waiting on some other college job? A&M? At the end of the regular season, the dominos will start to fall. Who we end up with likely won't be our top choice. Folks will complain we screwed up, went cheap and/or got leftovers, but if it's any of the names being discussed, we will be better than under Butch.

As others have pointed out, the egg bowl is tomorrow so if Mullen is fired up about UT or UF, we might get closure this weekend. Bottom line is our night,are season ends Saturday. Another couple of weeks and we likely have our new coach and this pathetic, embarrassing debacle is finally behind us.

One other thing. When naming names, it's wise to remember that this will be a guy Currie deals with on a daily basis. He's not hiring a nut like Leach. He's not hiring a arse like Kiffin. And he's not hiring a jerk like Kelly. He will look for someone of a like mind and vision. A guy he enjoys working with. Don't know Currie but I'd bet the new guy will have a similar mindset and attitude.