Why Not Tom Herman

#51
#51
Birdie said:
Texas was 16-21 with terrible recruiting the 3yrs prior to his arrival. He went to the Big12 title game in year 2... what you say is incorrect

I do hear he is an ahole though. Seems to be the consensus opinion.
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What exactly did he build at Texas? Did he win more with less?

Winning more at Texas than strong doesn’t say anything about Herman being a good coach
 
#52
#52
OriginalCoach said:
If one hasn’t noticed, Herman wasn’t the HC at Ohio State with those 3 QBs. That was Meyer. Tell me what success Herman has had with QBs as HC, either at Houston or Texas. And if you for one minute believe that Herman’s wins at Texas the last couple of years was not mostly the doing of his QB, you’re crazy and crazier to hire him as HC.
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OC at Texas State he had a top 10 offense. OC at Rice had a top 10 offense. OC at Iowa State his QB finished 2nd in school history in passing yard and broke a ton of school offensive records.

He was 22-4 at Houston. Had their first win against a top 10 team in over 40yrs. Finished in the top 10.

Texas was 16-21 3yrs prior to his arrival. He did fine.

Herman worked under Meyer for only 3yrs of his career.

He obviously has some off the field issues that make him a no go as candidate. But his track makes it clear the issue is NOT his coaching ability.
 
#54
#54
Perspective said:
What exactly did he build at Texas? Did he win more with less?

Winning more at Texas than strong doesn’t say anything about Herman being a good coach
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He has a 71% winning rate as a HC. He has had top 10 offenses at Texas State, Rice, tOSU, Houston, and Texas. He has more top 10 wins in 6yrs as a HC than TN has had in the last 12yrs.

He clearly has off the field issues that make him a no fly zone as candidate but your argument that he is a bad football coach doesn't hold water.
 
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#55
#55
Birdie said:
OC at Texas State he had a top 10 offense. OC at Rice had a top 10 offense. OC at Iowa State his QB finished 2nd in school history in passing yard and broke a ton of school offensive records.

He was 22-4 at Houston. Had their first win against a top 10 team in over 40yrs. Finished in the top 10.

Texas was 16-21 3yrs prior to his arrival. He did fine.

Herman worked under Meyer for only 3yrs of his career.

He obviously has some off the field issues that make him a no go as candidate. But his track makes it clear the issue is NOT his coaching ability.
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First, we aren’t hiring him to be OC. But since you’ve fallen for the con:

His head coach at Rice is the reason they were good on offense. Herman was nothing more than a hired hand play caller of a good scheme.

His successor at Iowa St did better with his offense than he did. The “success” was a product of Rhoads being the first coach to use a short passing attack. You know, the same record book phenomenon that’s occurred around the country. Iowa St was a pro set team with McCaney. Most records have since been broken within 10 years.

He didn’t do much at Ohio St but ride coattails and bang coeds.

A top-10 win at Houston? This is your support of your contention? Hundreds of bad coaches can have top-10 wins, particularly when inheriting a favorable situation.

At Texas the only positive is he wasn’t as bad as Strong. Although he benefited from Strong creating a good lockerroom. He was bailed out by his QB.

He’s a fraud. A mid level coach with a personality unbecoming of being a HC. To be good he needs to be handed a large advantage. But he’s not good enough to win enough at places with large advantages.
 
#57
#57
#58
#58
jhen713 said:
I either heard/read somewhere that it had alot to do with his more liberal political views. Not sure if true. Sad if true. Who or what you vote for or feel strongly about shouldn't affect your job status if it doesn't affect your job performance.

I guess if its used against you(negative recruiting) it kinda could?
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I know he was at Texas, but I just don't see liberal political views being a negative on the recruiting Trail.
Don't know how much 18 year olds care about your choice for governor. Or congressman. But I definitely see how that could affect his relationship with billionaire oil boosters
 
#59
#59
Perspective said:
First, we aren’t hiring him to be OC. But since you’ve fallen for the con:

His head coach at Rice is the reason they were good on offense. Herman was nothing more than a hired hand play caller of a good scheme.

His successor at Iowa St did better with his offense than he did. The “success” was a product of Rhoads being the first coach to use a short passing attack. You know, the same record book phenomenon that’s occurred around the country. Iowa St was a pro set team with McCaney. Most records have since been broken within 10 years.

He didn’t do much at Ohio St but ride coattails and bang coeds.

A top-10 win at Houston? This is your support of your contention? Hundreds of bad coaches can have top-10 wins, particularly when inheriting a favorable situation.

At Texas the only positive is he wasn’t as bad as Strong. Although he benefited from Strong creating a good lockerroom. He was bailed out by his QB.

He’s a fraud. A mid level coach with a personality unbecoming of being a HC. To be good he needs to be handed a large advantage. But he’s not good enough to win enough at places with large advantages.
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He has numerous top 10 wins as HC. What advantages did he have at Houston over the no.3 Oklahoma team he beat?

Taking over a 16-21 team is not generally considered a favorable situation.

Top 10 offenses everywhere he has been. Even at the 2 places he was the HC. That is one very lucky guy.

Apparently a loser off the field, the record books and statistics show that he is a pretty good coach of football on the field though. You're spouting opinions but the #'s say a different story.
 
#60
#60
He would be a great hire. I just can't believe that DW would not go after some of these young HC's and instead get a OC that has no head coaching experience but I ain't doing the hiring.
 
#61
#61
Birdie said:
He has numerous top 10 wins as HC. What advantages did he have at Houston over the no.3 Oklahoma team he beat?

Taking over a 16-21 team is not generally considered a favorable situation.

Top 10 offenses everywhere he has been. Even at the 2 places he was the HC. That is one very lucky guy.

Apparently a loser off the field, the record books and statistics show that he is a pretty good coach of football on the field though. You're spouting opinions but the #'s say a different story.
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Plenty of bad mediocre coaches have a top-10 win. Good grief, the fact that’s your only point is incriminating.

He either did a poor job or was living off handouts everywhere else. At Rice, at Iowa St, at OSU, at Houston, at UT. He’s done nothing. He’s a fraud that also likely is on the spectrum
 
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#62
#62
Perspective said:
Plenty of bad mediocre coaches have a top-10 win. Good grief, the fact that’s your only point is incriminating.

He either did a poor job or was living off handouts everywhere else. At Rice, at Iowa St, at OSU, at Houston, at UT. He’s done nothing. He’s a fraud that also likely is on the spectrum
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Haha he is the luckiest man alive then since he has failed up so well.

You keep saying A top 10 win like he only has one. I completely agree with you that many mediocre coaches do have them. However, he has numerous of them. Includinh a W against no.6 Georgia in the Sugar Bowl for example. In fact, he actually has more top 10 wins as a HC in his 6yrs than we do as program in the last 12.

Nobody said he was Urban Meyer or Dabo.... the reality is we have a losing record since Phil was fired, our program has a black cloud hanging over it, and he is a coach who has shown the ability to not only consistently compete with every team he plays but to also consistently beat very good teams. So putting aside that he is apparently a POS and evaluating the situation we are in and weighing our options. As a football coach, his resume seems to be much, MUCH better than most of the realistic options being discussed. I'd personally rather have a football coach with the track record of Herman than Sonny Dykes. Beggars can't be choosers

However, he is, by all accounts, a jerk and can't handle the off field stuff which is incredibly important to being a successful HC. So he is not an option. But I would love to find someone with his on-field performance combined with the ability to handle the off-field duties of an SEC HC at a major program.
 
#63
#63
Birdie said:
He has a 71% winning rate as a HC. He has had top 10 offenses at Texas State, Rice, tOSU, Houston, and Texas. He has more top 10 wins in 6yrs as a HC than TN has had in the last 12yrs.

He clearly has off the field issues that make him a no fly zone as candidate but your argument that he is a bad football coach doesn't hold water.
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What is the common denominator here. He was a great fit in Austin. He’d be a great fit at Washington, Washington State, UCLA, USC, UC Berkeley, Oregon, Oregon State...maybe he could lead a BLM riot downtown on Gay St. if he is hired. His comment about the police in an interview really ticked me off.

I don't care about what politics you believe in.....I can not stand politics in sports. Keep that $#!t to yourself.
 
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#65
#65
DERELICK_MY_VOLS said:
What is the common denominator here. He was a great fit in Austin. He’d be a great fit at Washington, Washington State, UCLA, USC, UC Berkeley, Oregon, Oregon State...maybe he could lead a BLM riot downtown on Gay St. if he is hired. His comment about the police in an interview really ticked me off.

I don't care about what politics you believe in.....I can not stand politics in sports. Keep that $#!t to yourself.
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Agree with that 100%
 
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#66
#66
Birdie said:
Haha he is the luckiest man alive then since he has failed up so well.

You keep saying A top 10 win like he only has one. I completely agree with you that many mediocre coaches do have them. However, he has numerous of them. Includinh a W against no.6 Georgia in the Sugar Bowl for example. In fact, he actually has more top 10 wins as a HC in his 6yrs than we do as program in the last 12.

Nobody said he was Urban Meyer or Dabo.... the reality is we have a losing record since Phil was fired, our program has a black cloud hanging over it, and he is a coach who has shown the ability to not only consistently compete with every team he plays but to also consistently beat very good teams. So putting aside that he is apparently a POS and evaluating the situation we are in and weighing our options. As a football coach, his resume seems to be much, MUCH better than most of the realistic options being discussed. I'd personally rather have a football coach with the track record of Herman than Sonny Dykes. Beggars can't be choosers

However, he is, by all accounts, a jerk and can't handle the off field stuff which is incredibly important to being a successful HC. So he is not an option. But I would love to find someone with his on-field performance combined with the ability to handle the off-field duties of an SEC HC at a major program.
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Luck? No, he shared agents with Myer. Being co-OC at OSU will open undeserving doors. Circumstance leads to a lot of average coaches getting chances they’re not good enough for. He just did a better job picking his HC opportunities than guys like Pruitt.

He is a playcaller. One that can do well with large talent advantages, like most playcallers. He’s not a HC. He’s barely been a good OC on his own, having often relied on the head coach or established offense. His average abilities and the need for large talent advantages caught up to him.
 
#69
#69
I keep seeing everyone talk about wanting Herman... As someone who has lived the Herman roller coaster, I would stay as far away as possible.

First, lets talk about the elephant in the room. His hubris and how he seems to struggle with personal interactions with other people is absolutely grating on those around him. It got to the point that when players would see him in the hallways they would stop saying "Hi" to him due to how he treats people. His personal skills were so bad that the University brought in an etiquette coach for him. Remember him flipping off the camera during signing day? Or mocking the Missouri QB from the sidelines? Those types of things were much more prevalent inside the program than known to the outside.

Second, his staff and his unwillingness to listen to outside voices more than anything led to his downfall. Herman essentially brought his whole staff from UH with him. The issue there is that they were not qualified to deal with the step up in competition and the expectations of what it means to be involved coaching at a state flagship university. Part of the blame for this should be put at the feet of the AD, which was an interem at the time, but Herman only wanted "Yes" men on his staff and was extremely resistant to change. It is a shame because he had the same financial resources that Texas gave Sark, but the quality of the staff is night and day different. He doesnt have the contacts and was unwilling to hire outside of his comfort zone (until essentialy forced to last off-season). Maybe he changed his mind, but then again are you willing to take that risk.

Third, he is reliant his offense ran his way, regardless of the talent around him. Get ready to lots of QB power and eventually a beatup QB. He is risk adverse and will "turtle" after getting up 2 scores on any team. Offense goes into a shell and the defense eventually gets exhausted. This means lots of teams that should be blown out will then be close at the end. There is a reason he is involved in so many one score games, it is a design characterstic of how me manages games. This is great when utilizing this approach when dealing with a superior team (which tends to reflect in his number of upsets of higher ranked teams) but allows weaker teams to have a punchers chance at the end. This leads to perception issues regarding the overall skill level of the team, team toughness, and it eventually bleeds into recruiting.

Fourth, he hasn't learned to let his coaches coach. His play calling is predictable and when forced to bring in Yourich as an OC he continued to meddle in the O. You can tell when Tom starts calling plays vs when he let the OC do it. He is a WR coach at heart and continued to meddle in the WR room (both in recruiting and in the rotation) to the detriment of the position. He plays favorites and had a very difficult time of consistently having the best players on the field. He does things to make a point, even if it hurts the teams chance of success on the field. He is very bad at allowing/doing in game adjustments and is a poor gameday/clock manager. His hardcore antics come off as fake and forced.

Five, there are rumors of other off the field skeletons (drinking, adultery, and substance abuse) that have all been used one way or another against Herman while he was at Texas. I wont get into this heavily, but there are stories out there that harken to pre-Bama Sark and Joey Freshwater image as well as some intersting interactions with boosters and Mrs Herman as well.



Lets put it as nicely as I can. When it had come to the point this season to begin discussion of should Texas begin to look for a new head coach, no one (AD, Admin, Boosters, Player Personnel) had his back. No one was in his corner, and if that is the case, there is no way you can survive at a major program. If you cannot build relationships and are toxic enough that you have no advocates, it is a major red flag.Maybe Turtle Tom has learned his lesson, but all of his actions on and off the field at Texas shows otherwise. Hire him at your own risk. Dont say people didn't warn you.
 
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#70
#70
Perspective said:
Luck? No, he shared agents with Myer. Being co-OC at OSU will open undeserving doors. Circumstance leads to a lot of average coaches getting chances they’re not good enough for. He just did a better job picking his HC opportunities than guys like Pruitt.

He is a playcaller. One that can do well with large talent advantages, like most playcallers. He’s not a HC. He’s barely been a good OC on his own, having often relied on the head coach or established offense. His average abilities and the need for large talent advantages caught up to him.
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He was OC under Meyer for 3yrs after he had good offenses at Texas St, Rice, and Iowa State. If a top 10 offense as an OC is not good then I guess we have different opinions on what is considered a good offense.
 
#71
#71
Perspective said:
What exactly did he build at Texas? Did he win more with less?

Winning more at Texas than strong doesn’t say anything about Herman being a good coach
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This winning more with less argument is silly. So a coach can only be good if he wins more with less?

Saban gets the best of the best year in and year out. Nobody questions his coaching ability. Herman is a good coach. He has proven that at 2 different schools.
 
#72
#72
Glockmeister said:
Why not Tom Herman? Great recruiter, great offensive mind. Power 5 winning experince. Took Texas outta the gutter to places they haven't been in the last 10 years. Him with Steele as the DC might be great. I think him getting fired by his dream job where he played his college ball mighta humbled him a bit... maybe to the point of going to Tennessee with a chip on his shoulder. Also no buy out to pay for, right?
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Or the big fat buyout provides him little
Motivation.
 
#73
#73
Perspective said:
Luck? No, he shared agents with Myer. Being co-OC at OSU will open undeserving doors. Circumstance leads to a lot of average coaches getting chances they’re not good enough for. He just did a better job picking his HC opportunities than guys like Pruitt.

He is a playcaller. One that can do well with large talent advantages, like most playcallers. He’s not a HC. He’s barely been a good OC on his own, having often relied on the head coach or established offense. His average abilities and the need for large talent advantages caught up to him.
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Where did you read he was a CO OC at OSU?
 
#74
#74
We will never know truthfully who was talked to and who wasn’t. But with him being without a team currently, he is probably out after this much time whether we have talked to him or not.
 
#75
#75
Birdie said:
He was OC under Meyer for 3yrs after he had good offenses at Texas St, Rice, and Iowa State. If a top 10 offense as an OC is not good then I guess we have different opinions on what is considered a good offense.
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No, we differ on what’s a sign of a good coach. He didn’t have anything- Urban and Ohio St did.

Having a top 10 offense at OSU while Urban holds your hand (as well as co-OC) doesn’t mean **** in regards to what Herman did, and it’s certainly not reflective or predictive of him being a good coach. He’s a less with more type when on his own.


You’re either not familiar with Herman, or are looking at things superficially. That’s how you end up with disasters like Pruitt.
 
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