Why not Mike Leach?

#251
#251
VolTx said:
You make some damn good points here, although I'll add that he has beaten an elite coach at an elite school.
Mack Brown won a national championship and Texas is an elite program.
They were ranked #1 when Leach beat them
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Eh I'll give you that one.
 
#252
#252
VolTx said:
You guys are extremely fortunate.
My wife went to Texas Tech and she's furious to this day over Leach's firing. I'd say 95%+ of Tech fans share her sentiments.
The 2 main individuals responsible for it are no longer at TTU and they're pretty hated among fans.
Craig James literally was run out of the Senate primary here because of it.
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Oh I know. I was very surprised and pretty happy when I heard they picked him up. I’m quite happy with him.
 
#253
#253
ptclaus98 said:
As tvols said above, when you hire Mike Leach, you marry yourself to that offensive system, and by extension, to a certain style of defense. If he goes, you either face a 4 year rebuild or you go out and get another guy that runs the air raid, and there aren't many of those guys who are successful. It's not an easy offense to break tempo with and you end up with a gassed defense or a defense that can't match up physically. I don't understand why people think this is a good idea, other than the fact that they believe Tennessee is a third tier football program that should be lucky to go 8-4. Mike Leach is a thing because of incompetent coaching at schools like Texas and USC. Call me when he beats an elite coach at an elite school.
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Since you asked me to address your points, I will.

1. "you marry yourself to that offensive system"

What's wrong with that? In 12 seasons as a HC, Leach's teams average PPG rank is #30...half of those years were top 20 and 3 were top 5 (only 4 out of top 30 - first 4 years at WSU). During those same years, we averaged #60...with only 3 of those being top 30, zero top 20. With our current rank of 118, I'd be ok with a coach that AVERAGES #30.

2. "by extension, to a certain style of defense"

What extension? I'll guess that you're referring to time of possession...well WSU is #7 nationally in time of possession this year. Of the current top 4 in the playoff poll, GA is 10th, AL is 27th, ND is 79th, and Clemson is 63rd. So, what does that tell us? Not much. Either way, WSU has #10 total D and we're #58. I'd swap defenses with them all day long.

3. "if he goes, you either face a 4 year rebuild"

Of what, the roster? We haven't had a road grading OL this century...we've got what, 5 scholarship O lineman dressing today? What would be wrong with having much better WR's than we have now? For RB's, Kelly and Chandler would do well in a Leach O...and maybe he would've actually used Kamara properly. I don't know how to address rebuilding the D roster. I'm not sure what happens to D recruiting...but again, I'll take being ranked 10th to 58th.

4. "It's not an easy offense to break tempo with and
you end up with a gassed defense or a defense that can't match up physically."

See #2.

5. "Mike Leach is a thing because of incompetent coaching at schools like Texas and USC."

How did Leach do as OC in SEC (against "real defenses")? In Leach's two seasons at Kentucky, the Wildcats set six NCAA records, 41 SEC records and 116 Kentucky records. Did KY leave the SEC for 2 years when Leach was there or were those just coincidental "down years" for SEC defenses?

As for "Call me when he beats an elite coach at an elite school"...I think VolTx already covered that one.

I think Leach would be a scream in the SEC...but beyond that, I think he'd be a hell of a coach for the Vols.

Again, I ask you who else are we going to get?

Patterson? not leaving TCU.
TCU Horned Frogs coach Gary Patterson doesn't need to leave
 
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#254
#254
VolMax said:
Since you asked me to address your points, I will.

1. "you marry yourself to that offensive system"

What's wrong with that? In 12 seasons as a HC, Leach's teams average PPG rank is #30...half of those years were top 20 and 3 were top 5 (only 4 out of top 30 - first 4 years at WSU). During those same years, we averaged #60...with only 3 of those being top 30, zero top 20. With our current rank of 118, I'd be ok with a coach that AVERAGES #30.
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Ok, that's fantastic but the leagues he's done that in have rarely had defenses that rush with 4 and have good enough pass coverage. The level of defense is there, but it's not nearly as consistent as it is in the SEC. Even the elite defensive squads like OU and TCU have a different style that focuses more on techniques and assignments than outright physical ability. And even then they can have trouble creating pressure because the level of DL play isn't at the level of SEC defenses, especially the top level SEC defenses.

2. "by extension, to a certain style of defense"

What extension? I'll guess that you're referring to time of possession...well WSU is #7 nationally in time of possession this year. Of the current top 4 in the playoff poll, GA is 10th, AL is 27th, ND is 79th, and Clemson is 63rd. So, what does that tell us? Not much. Either way, WSU has #10 total D and we're #58. I'd swap defenses with them all day long.
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OK, but you also have to consider that they're in a league where an overwhelming majority of teams run an exclusively quick hitting no huddle spread. Regardless those are good defensive stats but also nowhere near the norm for Leach teams.
3. "if he goes, you either face a 4 year rebuild"

Of what, the roster? We haven't had a road grading OL this century...we've got what, 5 scholarship O lineman dressing today? What would be wrong with having much better WR's than we have now? For RB's, Kelly and Chandler would do well in a Leach O...and maybe he would've actually used Kamara properly. I don't know how to address rebuilding the D roster. I'm not sure what happens to D recruiting...but again, I'll take being ranked 10th to 58th.
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I don't think he'd get a good enough staff, and despite them having a good enough defense this year, I don't think our defense would be athletic enough to match those numbers in the SEC because he's not going to let any tweeners go to the defense.

As for the makeup of our offense, I think that unless he brings in a hell of an OL coach, that it will be a massive struggle. The line play in the SEC is much better than anything he's seen since being in the Big 12, and even then it's much better.

5. "Mike Leach is a thing because of incompetent coaching at schools like Texas and USC."

How did Leach do as OC in SEC (against "real defenses")? In Leach's two seasons at Kentucky, the Wildcats set six NCAA records, 41 SEC records and 116 Kentucky records. Did KY leave the SEC for 2 years when Leach was there or were those just coincidental "down years" for SEC defenses?
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You know who else was an SEC badass back in the mid 90s? Tommy Tuberville and Houston Nutt. Remind me what those guys are up to again? The league has changed so much that what Leach did back then is irrelevant. Back then there were 4-5 teams that were committed to winning and recruiting like they were committed to winning in the entirety of the SEC, now every team bar 2 are doing that and there has been an influx of talent in the Southeast in that time period.
As for "Call me when he beats an elite coach at an elite school"...I think VolTx already covered that one.
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Ok he beat Mack Brown. Twice. In 10 years. Beat Stoops three times in the same amount of time. None of the OU teams he beat were elite or in the nat'l championship conversation.
I think Leach would be a scream in the SEC...but beyond that, I think he'd be a hell of a coach for the Vols.

Again, I ask you who else are we going to get?
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Campbell, Fuente, Kelly, I'd much rather have Mullen as well. Hell I'd rather have Sumlin if we're gonna take a pass happy coach.
Patterson? not leaving TCU.
TCU Horned Frogs coach Gary Patterson doesn't need to leave
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Nick Saban wasn't leaving the Dolphins either. Pay the man and he'll be interested.
 
#255
#255
Also trying to consistently recruit QBs that can run that system in the state of Tennessee is a tall task and that's me being nice. It's not enough to have one, either.
 
#256
#256
ptclaus98 said:
Ok, that's fantastic but the leagues he's done that in have rarely had defenses that rush with 4 and have good enough pass coverage. The level of defense is there, but it's not nearly as consistent as it is in the SEC. Even the elite defensive squads like OU and TCU have a different style that focuses more on techniques and assignments than outright physical ability. And even then they can have trouble creating pressure because the level of DL play isn't at the level of SEC defenses, especially the top level SEC defenses. Stats?


OK, but you also have to consider that they're in a league where an overwhelming majority of teams run an exclusively quick hitting no huddle spread. Regardless those are good defensive stats but also nowhere near the norm for Leach teams.

I don't think he'd get a good enough staff, and despite them having a good enough defense this year, I don't think our defense would be athletic enough to match those numbers in the SEC because he's not going to let any tweeners go to the defense.

As for the makeup of our offense, I think that unless he brings in a hell of an OL coach, that it will be a massive struggle. The line play in the SEC is much better than anything he's seen since being in the Big 12, and even then it's much better.



You know who else was an SEC badass back in the mid 90s? Tommy Tuberville and Houston Nutt. Remind me what those guys are up to again? The league has changed so much that what Leach did back then is irrelevant. Back then there were 4-5 teams that were committed to winning and recruiting like they were committed to winning in the entirety of the SEC, now every team bar 2 are doing that and there has been an influx of talent in the Southeast in that time period.

Ok he beat Mack Brown. Twice. In 10 years. Beat Stoops three times in the same amount of time. None of the OU teams he beat were elite or in the nat'l championship conversation.

Campbell, Fuente, Kelly, I'd much rather have Mullen as well. Hell I'd rather have Sumlin if we're gonna take a pass happy coach.

Nick Saban wasn't leaving the Dolphins either. Pay the man and he'll be interested.
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I gave you stats...you give a lot of your opinion.

I'd be happy with Mullen, too.
 
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#257
#257
Better than Jones obviously. But I'm concerned with his approach to the defensive side, which usaully seems to be "screw it we'll just score some more
 
#258
#258
ptclaus98 said:
Also trying to consistently recruit QBs that can run that system in the state of Tennessee is a tall task and that's me being nice. It's not enough to have one, either.
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I don't think recruiting QBs would be an issue for Leach. It's been said that he takes nobodys and sprinkles quarterback pixie dust on them.

Leach turned multiple first year senior starters into QBs that led the nation in passing.
Cody Hodges
BJ Symons
Sonny Cumbie (walk on)
 
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#259
#259
Guys...I think The Pirate actually wants the job!

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#263
#263
Love Leach and in fact he's one of the greatest interviews in all of sports but he just wouldn't be a fit in the SEC or UT. Can we with our unlimited bank roll now hire him as a OC? :)
 
#264
#264
jonnon111 said:
Debord's offense was record breaking too, but people couldn't stop griping and moanin about that either. Unless we hire Saban most of you guys will disrespect UT anyway.
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I agree completely about Debord. Our offense was breaking records and not a day went by that someone on the message board trash Debord. Well you see what happened when he left and we promoted Larry Scott. The offense sucked.
 
#268
#268
VolNavy01 said:
I personally love Coach Leach. But I agree, I don't think he "fits" Tennessee. I don't think the majority of the fan base, nor the administration would care much for his unique personality. And they would gasp at his post game interviews. Like I said, I love the guy's uniqueness and think he is a fantastic coach. The job he has done at Wazzu has been amazing.
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I like him too...Crazy as all hell and a lot of fun..Can you imagine all the orange and white pirate flags flying on the VOL Navy?..lol..That would be just awesome :eek:lol: Plus the guy is a hell of a football coach.
 
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#273
#273
theFallGuy said:
I agree completely about Debord. Our offense was breaking records and not a day went by that someone on the message board trash Debord. Well you see what happened when he left and we promoted Larry Scott. The offense sucked.
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Well, Alvin Kamara, Josh Dobbs, Josh Malone and Juan Jennings may have something to do with it as well. Just maybe.
 
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