Why is there such a quarrel with Christianity today?

#2,302
#2,302
Vol8188 said:
This isn't a matter of my faith. It's a simple fact. Why do so many different forms of Christianity exist? Because of disputes over things that aren't clear in the bible.
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There are differences in the way Christian Church worship however all Christian Churches believe in the gospel of the virgin birth, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. That we receive salvation through grace by faith. This is the essential doctrine of Christian Churches.

We do differ on such things as is the Sabbath Saturday or Sunday. Do we baptise by submersion or sprinkle. How often do we take communion. Our salvation is not dependent on any of these differences.
 
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#2,303
#2,303
Vol8188 said:
This isn't a matter of my faith. It's a simple fact. Why do so many different forms of Christianity exist? Because of disputes over things that aren't clear in the bible.
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There are many things that the Bible doesn't spell out, and many that it does. I don't see why that should be an issue. It's clear on what it needs to be clear about.

As to why there are so many denominations, it's a more complex question, even though you seem to want to be the one who likes to hyper-generalize and want only simple answers (that match your agenda).

There are many denominations because God is gracious enough to give us varied worship styles. I think more importantly, there are many denominations because Christians are still human and can have a tendency to walk in the flesh as opposed to the Spirit. Instead of making the 'main thing the main thing', the church has had tendencies to 'major in the minors' to the discredit of the majors.

The people in churches have broken fellowship over people and pet doctrines, as opposed to seeking humble unity for the purpose of glorifying Jesus.

It's been a problem in the church since it was founded. The problem isn't with the Bible. It's with people.

1 Corinthians 3:1 Brothers, I was not able to speak to you as spiritual people but as people of the flesh, as babies in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, because you were not yet ready for it. In fact, you are still not ready, 3 because you are still fleshly. For since there is envy and strife among you, are you not fleshly and living like unbelievers? 4 For whenever someone says, “I’m with Paul,” and another, “I’m with Apollos,” are you not unspiritual people?
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So, is the fact of many denomination by definition a problem in Christianity? No. People respond differently to different styles of worship, and I believe God gave us different styles of worship as a gift. Do the reasons for 'splits' often reflect an unspiritual immaturity in the Christians who split. You bet. But it's a problem with the vessel, not the contents.
 
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#2,304
#2,304
Gramps said:
There are differences in the way Christian Church worship however all Christian Churches believe in the gospel of the virgin birth, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. That we receive salvation through grace by faith. This is the essential doctrine of Christian Churches.

We do differ on such things as is the Sabbath Saturday or Sunday. Do we baptise by submersion or sprinkle. How often do we take communion. Our salvation is not dependent on any of these differences.
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A lot of CoC people would disagree here
 
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#2,307
#2,307
Orange_Crush said:
There are many things that the Bible doesn't spell out, and many that it does. I don't see why that should be an issue. It's clear on what it needs to be clear about.

As to why there are so many denominations, it's a more complex question, even though you seem to want to be the one who likes to hyper-generalize and want only simple answers (that match your agenda).

There are many denominations because God is gracious enough to give us varied worship styles. I think more importantly, there are many denominations because Christians are still human and can have a tendency to walk in the flesh as opposed to the Spirit. Instead of making the 'main thing the main thing', the church has had tendencies to 'major in the minors' to the discredit of the majors.

The people in churches have broken fellowship over people and pet doctrines, as opposed to seeking humble unity for the purpose of glorifying Jesus.

It's been a problem in the church since it was founded. The problem isn't with the Bible. It's with people.



So, is the fact of many denomination by definition a problem in Christianity? No. People respond differently to different styles of worship, and I believe God gave us different styles of worship as a gift. Do the reasons for 'splits' often reflect an unspiritual immaturity in the Christians who split. You bet. But it's a problem with the vessel, not the contents.
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Well Spoken
 
#2,308
#2,308
Crush and Slice - I have a question and though we may differ on our views, I do genuinely respect your opinions on this topic. My point is that this is not meant to be a loaded question, nor am I attempting to challenge your faith with the question. It is just a question that has long troubled me.

Why does all of the credit go to god when good things happen in your life, but no blame when things go poorly? I was married to an alcoholic who was extremely religious though she had no substantial religious knowledge. While she was sober she would say that she had nothing to do with sobriety, it was all god. When she fell off the wagon, however, she shouldered all of the blame. It seems like a strange contradiction and I would like to hear your thoughts.
 
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#2,309
#2,309
Gramps said:
There are differences in the way Christian Church worship however all Christian Churches believe in the gospel of the virgin birth, the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. That we receive salvation through grace by faith. This is the essential doctrine of Christian Churches.

We do differ on such things as is the Sabbath Saturday or Sunday. Do we baptise by submersion or sprinkle. How often do we take communion. Our salvation is not dependent on any of these differences.
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Hmmm...I'm willing to guess you don't consider Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and maybe even Catholics to be Christians? Those are Biblically based religions and there are differences when it comes to salvation.
 
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#2,314
#2,314
n_huffhines said:
Hmmm...I'm willing to guess you don't consider Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and maybe even Catholics to be Christians? Those are Biblically based religions and there are differences when it comes to salvation.
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I'm pretty sure Pentecostal and holiness also differ from his perspective on salvation.
 
#2,315
#2,315
ClearwaterVol said:
Crush and Slice - I have a question and though we may differ on our views, I do genuinely respect your opinions on this topic. My point is that this is not meant to be a loaded question, nor am I attempting to challenge your faith with the question. It is just a question that has long troubled me.

Why does all of the credit go to god when good things happen in your life, but no blame when things go poorly? I was married to an alcoholic who was extremely religious though she had no substantial religious knowledge. While she was sober she would say that she had nothing to do with sobriety, it was all god. When she fell off the wagon, however, she shouldered all of the blame. It seems like a strange contradiction and I would like to hear your thoughts.
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I have no problem with an earnest question and while my thoughts are hard to define I will do my best.

While I believe every good thing is from the L-rd I believe He allows everything else as well. I believe there are times when the L-rd does not bless those who have sinned even though they are redeemed.

For example king David sinned and was under judgement
David prayed to God on behalf of the child; David fasted, then came and lay all night on the ground. 17 The court officials got up and stood next to him trying to get him off the ground, but he refused, and he wouldn’t eat food with them. 18 On the seventh day, the child died. The servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, because they said, “While the child was still alive, we spoke to him, and he didn’t listen to us; if we tell him now that the child is dead, he may do himself some harm.” 19 But when David saw his servants whispering to each other, he suspected that the child was dead. David asked his servants, “Is the child dead?” and they answered, “He is dead.”

20 Then David got up off the ground, washed, anointed himself and changed his clothes. He went into the house of Adonai and worshipped; then he went to his own palace; and when he asked for food, they served it to him; and he ate

Notice David's response to his servents questions

His servants asked him, “What are you doing? You fasted and wept for the child while it was alive; but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat food!” 22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; because I thought, ‘Maybe Adonai will show his grace to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he’s dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

And how did David live on?
David comforted his wife Bat-Sheva, came to her and went to bed with her; she gave birth to a son and named him Shlomo. Adonai loved him 25 and sent through Natan the prophet to have him named Y’didyah [loved by God], for Adonai’s sake.

I, like David, love YHVH for who He is and not what he can give me or do for me.
If He blesses me the I'm grateful. If I'm under judgement ( which I currently believe I am for something that I won't go into here) then its righteous judgement and mine to own.
Either way I choose to live my life as Job did. When he faced the possibility of his own death ....

15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him;
I will surely[a] defend my ways to his face.

It may seem odd to some but that's where I'm at.



And I know a lot of you hate all the scripture but that's the foundation of my life.
Let's try it another way.... It was Ice T who said " you don't like my lifestyle?!? F you!"
 
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#2,319
#2,319
ClearwaterVol said:
Crush and Slice - I have a question and though we may differ on our views, I do genuinely respect your opinions on this topic. My point is that this is not meant to be a loaded question, nor am I attempting to challenge your faith with the question. It is just a question that has long troubled me.

Why does all of the credit go to god when good things happen in your life, but no blame when things go poorly? I was married to an alcoholic who was extremely religious though she had no substantial religious knowledge. While she was sober she would say that she had nothing to do with sobriety, it was all god. When she fell off the wagon, however, she shouldered all of the blame. It seems like a strange contradiction and I would like to hear your thoughts.
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Personally, I think the logic is flawed. I don't attribute "every" good thing to God, nor do I attribute "every" bad thing to me. I don't think the Bible would teach us such a theology either. I think that, obviously, God allows all things, but some things are the result of our free will actions.

When we came back from lunch today, I got the primo parking space. My coworker said. "Wow!" I jokingly said "Obviously, God loves me" to kind of poke fun at the whole concept that God will only bless us.

If I work hard at something, I stand a good chance at success. If I slack off, there's a good chance that I will fail. Christianity doesn't do away with the laws of cause/effect.

On the inverse, God doesn't guarantee that He will only bring us happy, happy, joy, joy days. He also brings 'bad' things into our lives, and clearly states that He will. Sometimes, this will be for our growth, to teach us things, to keep our eyes on our eternal home and not this temporal one... Sometimes it so that we can have experienced things so that later we can have empathy to comfort others.. Sometimes, it's just so that He can be glorified.

In any event, your ex sounds like the product of some form of prosperity gospel.

:thumbsup:
 
#2,321
#2,321
Vol8188 said:
Great. You can help us answer the question "how long is a day to God?".

How long is a day on Kolob?
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I can't remember why, but Mormons say a day to God is like 1000 years to us, or something like that. IDK about Kolob, but if you hie there, please tell me. That goes for Kobol as well.
 
#2,323
#2,323
n_huffhines said:
Former Mormon here. Wanna Bible bash?
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Been a long time, Huff. I couldn't debate my way out of a paper sack. I think some key points were:

  • God and Jesus are separate entities
  • Only 144K are called to heaven
  • Others judged favorably spend eternity on a paradise Earth
  • Hell is not everlasting torment, rather eternal destruction

That's about all I've got.
 
#2,324
#2,324
Orange_Crush said:
Personally, I think the logic is flawed. I don't attribute "every" good thing to God, nor do I attribute "every" bad thing to me. I don't think the Bible would teach us such a theology either. I think that, obviously, God allows all things, but some things are the result of our free will actions.

When we came back from lunch today, I got the primo parking space. My coworker said. "Wow!" I jokingly said "Obviously, God loves me" to kind of poke fun at the whole concept that God will only bless us.

If I work hard at something, I stand a good chance at success. If I slack off, there's a good chance that I will fail. Christianity doesn't do away with the laws of cause/effect.

On the inverse, God doesn't guarantee that He will only bring us happy, happy, joy, joy days. He also brings 'bad' things into our lives, and clearly states that He will. Sometimes, this will be for our growth, to teach us things, to keep our eyes on our eternal home and not this temporal one... Sometimes it so that we can have experienced things so that later we can have empathy to comfort others.. Sometimes, it's just so that He can be glorified.

In any event, your ex sounds like the product of some form of prosperity gospel.

:thumbsup:
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Very logical answer. She went to CR and came out indoctrinated with that nonsense. I've heard others say similar things and thought I'd get another opinion. Thanks.
 
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