Why is there such a quarrel with Christianity today?

#2,226
#2,226
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Just curious 88, but is this how you express your views toward you students if they have different opinions than you do... by mocking their beliefs? Or do you do that only in this forum?

And ftr... nearly every time (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here by saying "nearly") you express your views on Christianity, all you do is prove how ignorant you are on the subject.
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Careful, he's a persecuted atheist.
 
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#2,227
#2,227
MaxamusXIII said:
Hebrews 6:4 says maybe not.
4 For when people have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become sharers in the Ruach HaKodesh, 5 and tasted the goodness of God’s Word and the powers of the ‘olam haba — 6 and then have fallen away — it is impossible to renew them so that they turn from their sin, as long as for themselves they keep executing the Son of God on the stake all over again and keep holding him up to public contempt.
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Isn't what's bolded above the key? Or do you interpret it differently?
 
#2,228
#2,228
IBlvNTmWrk said:
Isn't what's bolded above the key? Or do you interpret it differently?
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I read this scripture as straight forward. No hidden meaning to it. I believe it's saying that it's possible to lose salvation but if you do you cant get it back.
But as I've said in the past Paul is complicated. I can be convinced I'm reading it incorrectly.
 
#2,229
#2,229
MaxamusXIII said:
I read this scripture as straight forward. No hidden meaning to it. I believe it's saying that it's possible to lose salvation but if you do you cant get it back.
But as I've said in the past Paul is complicated. I can be convinced I'm reading it incorrectly.
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Can we only repent once in our life?
 
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#2,230
#2,230
T-TownVol said:
Can we only repent once in our life?
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I don't believe that's what's being addressed here. What are your thoughts on it.
Remember I quoted it and said maybe.
I have strong opinions on things I've spent time on. Once saved/always saved is not on that list.
Maybe I'll look it over this Shabbat
 
#2,232
#2,232
Roustabout said:
I've blocked this troll, so I can't see his comments except when someone else quotes. Don't waste your breath. In that one paragraph there were blatant fallacies such as broad brush, bald assertions and hasty generalizations. You can't reason with a person that thinks the entire Christian faith is accurately represented in his butt hurt view.
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u-mad-1.jpg
 
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#2,233
#2,233
IBlvNTmWrk said:
If you want to look for "evidence" that God is evil and everything in the Bible is fabricated, then you can find it as you've shown. But the same is true if you'd take the time to do the other research as well. And you should honestly ask yourself this question... if you're not willing to research and look at both sides, then who is really the close-minded, foolish one? I don't mean this harshly as I've told both of my kids the same thing - you're free to believe what you want, but if you're not doing the full research to honestly evaluate all the possibilities but rather are only focused on researching one side of an issue (i.e. the side you "want" to be true), then you are making a biased, uneducated decision.

There are a number of historians to reference regarding support for the existence of Jesus, but I chose these three because they are as far removed from Believers in Christ as possible.





Here's a link to some additional information if you'd care to read it.

Did Jesus Exist? Searching for Evidence Beyond the Bible

Even Wikipedia supports that Jesus existed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
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I have done research on the christian side. That's why I'm where I am now. I grew up in the church. I actually read and studied the bible. Something most christians don't do. I was there and did it all and like I said that's why I believe the way I do now.
 
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#2,234
#2,234
MaxamusXIII said:
I don't believe that's what's being addressed here. What are your thoughts on it.
Remember I quoted it and said maybe.
I have strong opinions on things I've spent time on. Once saved/always saved is not on that list.
Maybe I'll look it over this Shabbat
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I will do some review and get back.....like Roust also said, I need to get the context on that passage.......thanks for calling me on it guys
 
#2,237
#2,237
Ok I've now read Hebrews again and I'm starting to form an opinion but need to ponder on it.
I'll bring it up again on sungawd worshippers day ( I'm kidding) and see whose done their homework.
 
#2,238
#2,238
MaxamusXIII said:
Ok I've now read Hebrews again and I'm starting to form an opinion but need to ponder on it.
I'll bring it up again on sungawd worshippers day ( I'm kidding) and see whose done their homework.
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Kinda like a "home field advantage" isn't it......:)
Good night all
 
#2,239
#2,239
SuperDave said:
I have done research on the christian side. That's why I'm where I am now. I grew up in the church. I actually read and studied the bible. Something most christians don't do. I was there and did it all and like I said that's why I believe the way I do now.
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I grew up in the church as well, but there are things that make much more sense today as a parent than they did when I was growing up. I hope you keep your heart and mind open to options.
 
#2,240
#2,240
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I grew up in the church as well, but there are things that make much more sense today as a parent than they did when I was growing up. I hope you keep your heart and mind open to options.
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Yes it does make more sense now that I'm an adult and that's why I don't participate in it anymore.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 cor 13:11
 
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#2,241
#2,241
RE: The Hebrews 6:4-6 issue being discussed.

Titus 1:2 - God cannot lie
John 1:1-3 Word = God; He (Jesus) was with God in the beginning; God created everything through him (Jesus), nothing made without him (Jesus)
John 6:47 - Jesus tells everybody if they believe in him, they have eternal life (see above for source of authority)
Hebrews 6:4-6 The light, enlightened and illuminated are used throughout Hebrews to indicate a person who is saved. The "gift" is from God and is eternal life (Eph. 2:8). We "taste" the gift of eternal life like Jesus "tasted" death for every man in his atoning sacrifice (Heb. 2:9) - which means completely. We are partakers in the Holy Spririt (Romans 8:9). No Holy Spirit - no salvation. Only the saved man can "taste" the Word of God (I Cor:2:14). Without the Holy Spirit they cannot understand. Only a born again person can experience the power of God (Romans 1:16). "If they fall away... " is talking about Christian living, not salvation. Keeping it all in context - Heb. 6:1 is talking about things that go with being saved. It is about spiritual maturity - not about being saved or not. 6:6 states to the Hebrew believers who were accustomed to a yearly sacrifice that it was impossible for them to be saved again because Jesus has made the perfect sacrifice for those that have accepted him (Hebrews 10:14). 6:6 warns that if you try to be saved again you crucify Jesus again and bring him shame. You can only be born-again (saved) once, never to be cast out (John 6:37) or lost (John 6:39). Salvation is complete and final (John 5:24). If somebody falls away from Christian living the answer is simply to turn (repent) and begin serving him again. God rewards faithful service (I Cor. 15:58).

To believers that are doubting: if we fall away from Christian living, it does not mean we are not saved. That is once and forever. To get rid of personal feelings, thoughts, or doubts of being lost - start serving the Lord again and the Holy Spirit will act within you bringing reassurance.

If you are not a believer and have not accepted Jesus as your Savior, please do not let a minute pass without considering the acceptance of the free gift he has given every person. It makes all the difference.
 
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#2,242
#2,242
Roustabout said:
Sure. There is nothing objectively wrong in torturing puppies for fun

Kidding. I was going to point this out myself, but got on another tangent. Come on PKT, all analogies break down at some point. The issues of man's moral obligation is different than a puppy chewing up your shoes. The analogy was the point of free will.
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I didn't put forth the analogy. I merely continued it.
 
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#2,243
#2,243
Roustabout said:
Embarrassment? Ok. I have some different takes, but I've probably invested 30 hours of lectures in addition to reading a good bit and I've never been embarrassed.
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Yikes.

Roustabout said:
Sorry, but still not following your question. Dumb it down for us idiots.
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What are the conditions necessary for the rejection to be considered valid?
 
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#2,244
#2,244
IBlvNTmWrk said:
No. And ftr, God doesn't do this either. In fact, the salvation we have through Christ is just the opposite of what you're suggesting. I'm sure I've disobeyed God's commands numerous times.
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...and all this time I thought the punishment for blasphemy was Hell.
 
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#2,249
#2,249
Vols4us said:
RE: The Hebrews 6:4-6 issue being discussed.

Titus 1:2 - God cannot lie
John 1:1-3 Word = God; He (Jesus) was with God in the beginning; God created everything through him (Jesus), nothing made without him (Jesus)
John 6:47 - Jesus tells everybody if they believe in him, they have eternal life (see above for source of authority)
Hebrews 6:4-6 The light, enlightened and illuminated are used throughout Hebrews to indicate a person who is saved. The "gift" is from God and is eternal life (Eph. 2:8). We "taste" the gift of eternal life like Jesus "tasted" death for every man in his atoning sacrifice (Heb. 2:9) - which means completely. We are partakers in the Holy Spririt (Romans 8:9). No Holy Spirit - no salvation. Only the saved man can "taste" the Word of God (I Cor:2:14). Without the Holy Spirit they cannot understand. Only a born again person can experience the power of God (Romans 1:16). "If they fall away... " is talking about Christian living, not salvation. Keeping it all in context - Heb. 6:1 is talking about things that go with being saved. It is about spiritual maturity - not about being saved or not. 6:6 states to the Hebrew believers who were accustomed to a yearly sacrifice that it was impossible for them to be saved again because Jesus has made the perfect sacrifice for those that have accepted him (Hebrews 10:14). 6:6 warns that if you try to be saved again you crucify Jesus again and bring him shame. You can only be born-again (saved) once, never to be cast out (John 6:37) or lost (John 6:39). Salvation is complete and final (John 5:24). If somebody falls away from Christian living the answer is simply to turn (repent) and begin serving him again. God rewards faithful service (I Cor. 15:58).

To believers that are doubting: if we fall away from Christian living, it does not mean we are not saved. That is once and forever. To get rid of personal feelings, thoughts, or doubts of being lost - start serving the Lord again and the Holy Spirit will act within you bringing reassurance.

If you are not a believer and have not accepted Jesus as your Savior, please do not let a minute pass without considering the acceptance of the free gift he has given every person. It makes all the difference.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. :rock:

I would add to those that are doubting, do as it says in Matthews 18: 2-4, humble yourself as a little child. Pour your heart out to God and the Holy Spirit will come alive in your heart and will assure you God is alive and living in your heart.
 
#2,250
#2,250
SuperDave said:
Yes it does make more sense now that I'm an adult and that's why I don't participate in it anymore.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 cor 13:11
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Spake?
How does one spake?
 
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