Why is there such a quarrel with Christianity today?

[apevol]

Well yeah, but I was referring to this 20 ft carnivore I mentioned earlier that was discovered in Saudi Arabia, more so than the one possible piece of evidence found in the scripture.

Those are just a buncha bones, dude. I ain't skeert.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

This is one thing I don't understand about some religious people - that they have to factually prove their beliefs and the Bible. Doesn't make any sense to me. Why can't we all just be rational adults and admit the Bible largely for what it is: a book written in a specific cultural context for a specific cultural group. Just because the creation story may or may not be a way for pre-scientific peoples to narrate scientific things doesn't mean that word and message of Jesus Christ is necessarily weakened.

I'm gonna be honest.... you and I are on very separate wavelengths regarding the Bible, based on this post.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Would any Christian here be willing to accept that their religion is "false" if sufficient evidence was ever presented? This is the reason why I can't say I'm an atheist with 100% certainty - there isn't 100% proof that a God doesn't exist, but if provided sufficient evidence of his or her existence, I'd gladly change my mind.

As for Christianity being attacked, I openly criticize all religions, but as much as I disagree with them all, I don't think y'all shouldn't be able to worship your God. As long as that privilege is extended to people of other faiths and non-believers too (which is where, I believe, the misconception about people hating Christians and loving Muslims comes in). I disagree with both of you, but I think you both should be allowed to do your thing.

I think atheists get hit pretty hard too with discrimination. An open non-believer would never get elected President in this country. Hell, I have to hide it from my family like a closeted homosexual.

 

[PKT_VOL]

2 Peter 3:8

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

As for the 6,000 year old Earth thing, I've never understood it. I don't know where anyone is getting that from. Saying the Earth is 6,000 years old, and saying it's 600,000,000,000,000,000 years old makes no difference to me. I have no idea how old the Earth is, and none of the age of Earth theories contradict the Bible.

I like Ken Ham. I agree with a LOT of what he says, but he takes that one over the top. He doesn't know how old our planet is, and I think he needs to understand he's not suddenly an atheist for admitting that.

With respect to the bold, given your background and reading of Ham (from your post)...seriously? You may disagree with such a interpretation (his premises) but that's an entirely different statement.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

With respect to the bold, given your background and reading of Ham (from your post)...seriously? You may disagree with such a interpretation (his premises) but that's an entirely different statement.

Ok to be fair, I should word that more along the lines of "I don't understand how anyone can be so confident in this" rather than "I don't know where they're getting it from."

But you can trace the chronogenealogies back as far as you want. Estimate, do the math, whatever. It still has nothing to do with the age of the planet.

 

[Vol8188]

Ken Ham's creation museum has the answers you seek.

"Bill Nye wasn't there!"

 

[Vol8188]

My best guess for dinosaurs in relation to the Bible involves the 7 days of creation. God does not go by the same rules of time as we do. Who knows how long the 7 days actually were, 7 is a symbolic number in the Bible. It's God's number, it means complete and perfect.

Perhaps part of the time God was using to create the world, he also spent letting it develop. He created all manners of life, and let them run their course, dinosaurs included. When he saw his creation was ready for man, he introduced Adam and Eve to it.

I think the answer to all this will be revealed to us after we die, and we will realize how much we truly didn't know about the world. I could be way off base about all this, but that's my best guess.

Worst case scenario I can always pull the science cop-out..... "We know there's proof, we just haven't discovered it yet."

It wouldn't be that hard to know how long a day is for God. How long does it take Kolob to complete one rotation on its axis?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

This is one thing I don't understand about some religious people - that they have to factually prove their beliefs and the Bible. Doesn't make any sense to me. Why can't we all just be rational adults and admit the Bible largely for what it is: a book written in a specific cultural context for a specific cultural group. Just because the creation story may or may not be a way for pre-scientific peoples to narrate scientific things doesn't mean that word and message of Jesus Christ is necessarily weakened.

If atheists dont have religion to mock, then what would they have to live for?

 

[ClearwaterVol]

If atheists dont have religion to mock, then what would they have to live for?

And if Christians weren't defending themselves and their faith from this war on Christianity what would they do all day?

 

[Orange_Crush]

And if Christians weren't defending themselves and their faith from this war on Christianity what would they do all day?

You underestimate the amount of time it takes to strip you of your liberties and turn America into ancient Israel.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

My best guess for dinosaurs in relation to the Bible involves the 7 days of creation. God does not go by the same rules of time as we do. Who knows how long the 7 days actually were, 7 is a symbolic number in the Bible. It's God's number, it means complete and perfect.

Perhaps part of the time God was using to create the world, he also spent letting it develop. He created all manners of life, and let them run their course, dinosaurs included. When he saw his creation was ready for man, he introduced Adam and Eve to it.

I think the answer to all this will be revealed to us after we die, and we will realize how much we truly didn't know about the world. I could be way off base about all this, but that's my best guess.

Worst case scenario I can always pull the science cop-out..... "We know there's proof, we just haven't discovered it yet."

Or.....maybe the account in the BIble is just a story.

Also, the "science cop-out"? You really want to go there?

 

[n_huffhines]

If atheists dont have religion to mock, then what would they have to live for?

We'd still have fun mocking your science, even if you weren't religious.

 

[Septic]

Or.....maybe the account in the BIble is just a story.

Also, the "science cop-out"? You really want to go there?

"God doesn't go by the same rules we do."

Really? That's nice. He's magic.

How do otherwise seemingly intelligent people just *snap* suspend the laws of the known universe because of the feels they get from a bronze age book written by authors whom by and large never met the protagonist of the tale they wove?

And yet "we're" the jerks for questioning this totally compelling and legitimate reason to dismiss reason and rational thought?

If it weren't for our elected officials shaping public policy and pandering to the people who believe in magic - it'd be comical.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

They could always go with the tired argument that when God created Adam and Eve that they were '0' years old yet were fully formed adults. So by the same token the earth/universe could be 'young' yet look old.

 

[Orange_Crush]

"God doesn't go by the same rules we do."

Really? That's nice. He's magic.

How do otherwise seemingly intelligent people just *snap* suspend the laws of the known universe because of the feels they get from a bronze age book written by authors whom by and large never met the protagonist of the tale they wove?

And yet "we're" the jerks for questioning this totally compelling and legitimate reason to dismiss reason and rational thought?

If it weren't for our elected officials shaping public policy and pandering to the people who believe in magic - it'd be comical.

I won't speak for all skeptics, but--especially having read this post--I'd venture the guess that you're a jerk for being a jerk.

Just a guess, tho.

 

[Septic]

I won't speak for all skeptics, but--especially having read this post--I'd venture the guess that you're a jerk for being a jerk.

Just a guess, tho.

It's all part of gods plan, no?

 

[volprof]

I'm gonna be honest.... you and I are on very separate wavelengths regarding the Bible, based on this post.

How so? It appeared to me you were picking apart the creation narrative as metaphorical or allegorical rather than literal. Sounds like we are very much on the same wavelength.

 

[volprof]

If atheists dont have religion to mock, then what would they have to live for?

How ever will we be able to go on as good Christians if we can't prove with scientific certainty that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that the Sun stopped moving once!

Oh ye of little faith!

 

[volprof]

Or.....maybe the account in the BIble is just a story.

Also, the "science cop-out"? You really want to go there?

I thought the "science cop-out" was odd, given he seemed to be questioning the literal interpretation of the creation account. Perhaps he just worded it poorly and isn't questioning the literal meaning. In that case, I suppose he and I aren't on the same wavelength.

"Science cop-out" is a hell of a way to describe the disparity between scientific research and storytelling. I would never have thought to describe it that way. Very creative.

 

[volprof]

"God doesn't go by the same rules we do."

Really? That's nice. He's magic.

How do otherwise seemingly intelligent people just *snap* suspend the laws of the known universe because of the feels they get from a bronze age book written by authors whom by and large never met the protagonist of the tale they wove?

And yet "we're" the jerks for questioning this totally compelling and legitimate reason to dismiss reason and rational thought?

If it weren't for our elected officials shaping public policy and pandering to the people who believe in magic - it'd be comical.

"Who" never met, rather than "whom" never met. Who is always a subject while whom is always the direct object. Who is doing the action in your sentence.

Now, back to working on that missed essay you still owe me, mister!

 

[Septic]

"Who" never met, rather than "whom" never met. Who is always a subject while whom is always the direct object. Who is doing the action in your sentence.

Now, back to working on that missed essay you still owe me, mister!

Yeah, I knew I messed that up.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

"God doesn't go by the same rules we do."

Really? That's nice. He's magic.

How do otherwise seemingly intelligent people just *snap* suspend the laws of the known universe because of the feels they get from a bronze age book written by authors whom by and large never met the protagonist of the tale they wove?

And yet "we're" the jerks for questioning this totally compelling and legitimate reason to dismiss reason and rational thought?

If it weren't for our elected officials shaping public policy and pandering to the people who believe in magic - it'd be comical.

This is the point when I have learned to stop debating with someone like you. When you start throwing around terms like "magic" you're no longer trying to discuss your point, your goal at that point is only to be disrespectful. But if "magic" is the way you want to word it, then yes, I find what you would call "magic" much easier to swallow than "I don't know there was a bunch of nothing then the Big Bang then premordial soup and it was a big accident and now we're here."

Wayyyyy too many pieces had to accidentally fall into place for that. This design had a designer.

But let's not digress this conversation into an evolution/creation debate. There are plenty of old threads that can be bumped for that.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

How so? It appeared to me you were picking apart the creation narrative as metaphorical or allegorical rather than literal. Sounds like we are very much on the same wavelength.

You're basically asking me to admit the Bible is little more than a culture-based narrative.

The Bible is the written word of God. I am simply willing to admit I don't know how old the Earth is, and I don't think the Bible tells us one way or the other.

 

[Septic]

This is the point when I have learned to stop debating with someone like you. When you start throwing around terms like "magic" you're no longer trying to discuss your point, your goal at that point is only to be disrespectful. But if "magic" is the way you want to word it, then yes, I find what you would call "magic" much easier to swallow than "I don't know there was a bunch of nothing then the Big Bang then premordial soup and it was a big accident and now we're here."

Wayyyyy too many pieces had to accidentally fall into place for that. This design had a designer.

But let's not digress this conversation into an evolution/creation debate. There are plenty of old threads that can be bumped for that.

Frankly, when you lead with the statement that "god doesn't play by the same rules" - you've already said it. I was just putting a word to it. Magic. Why can't we just call a spade a spade?

I'd wager you'd apply that same rational to the argument of infinite regression. I'd dodge that debate too if I were going to assert that design requires a designer.

 

[volprof]

You're basically asking me to admit the Bible is little more than a culture-based narrative.

The Bible is the written word of God. I am simply willing to admit I don't know how old the Earth is, and I don't think the Bible tells us one way or the other.

It's a book, written by men, albeit perhaps divinely inspired. Unless it is the only text to ever find a way to escape that culturally specific framework, then its stories, particularly those in the Old Testament, belong to a particular historical context. As I said, however, this does not mean that the word and truth of Jesus as savior is necessarily weakened. It just means that Iron Age people wouldn't understand things like evolution, modern physics, etc., so no author of the Bible was going to bother trying to explain such things.