Why is it that a fired HC doesn't get many second chances?

#51
#51
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?

What on earth are you talking about? I can think of more than just 4 without even trying: Cutcliffe, Orgeron, Kiffin, Petrino, Tubberville, Muschamp, Charlie Strong, Willie Taggert...
 
#52
#52
I don't remember him being fired. I thought Mack resigned and basically said he was retiring.
He did "resign" but from what I understand, the resignation was a courtesy to him since he did win a championship at Texas. Supposedly, he was going to get another year, but when the money men start talking, it's time for a change.

Basically, it ended up being a plata o plomo situation since he got that job as the "special assistant" to the AD for $500,000 a year with unspecified compensation along with it.
 
#53
#53
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?
I think the coaching fraternity is close knit, and knows who the bad coaches are who should have never gotten a HC gig and who maybe had a bad situation previously, and worth another shot. Pete Carroll didn't really cut it at NYJ or Patriots. Belichick got fired from Cleveland. It's also about the situational fit. I'd argue that Coach O may not have fit anywhere else, but LSU, from a perception standpoint before he was hired at LSU. Everyone pretty much knew Kiffin knows his stuff when it comes to coaching, but the question was more around if he could clean up the clown show. Butch Jones, on the other hand, will probably only get another chance with some desperate mid-major. A buddy of mine with inside the building knowledge says Freddie Kitchens was very evidently over his head and had no idea how to run a program.
 
#54
#54
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?
Fired coaches get second chances all the time.

Yeah I meant d1. And I also meant particularly power 5. Fired power 5 coaches never get hired again.

Still not true.
 
#56
#56
Seems like a lot of these guys get second chances, maybe not right away at a big program but usually something.

However, whether or not the fired coach gets another shot (or how long until he does) probably depends on the reasons he was let go. In the case of a guy like Butch Jones, the general consensus (and an accurate one) is that he is a fairly nice guy but he was not up to running a big time program. Also, the lack of player development might get glossed over at a place like Cincinnati or Central/Eastern Michigan, but it doesn't go unnoticed at a program such as Tennessee where there is constant fan and media scrutiny. There's a reason that Butch Jones is carrying a clipboard and doing what amounts to little more than an entry-level, grad-assistant type of job. His name came up (very) briefly in the speculation over jobs at Rutgers (an area where he has some ties) and Washington State, I think. Of course, it doesn't seem like he was ever a serious candidate for anything. More of a throw-away name.

Bottom-line is that if you show that you can't handle it, you either don't get another chance or you have to wait until you prove that you're ready for a big time program. Smaller schools might take a chance, but not the prime time programs in most cases. And why would they? Coaches make big time money because they are expected to deliver results that positively impact the revenue of the Athletic Departments.

Of course, John Currie, perhaps the most incompetent person to ever serve in the UTAD, got another decent job . . . so who knows? I was shocked by him getting hired after his idiotic, clown show of a tenure as our AD.
 
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#58
#58
These are contrary to the OP. The OP said 1-4. Here's 8 that got jobs after being fired while I'm eating a sandwich. No googling.

Check on the reading skills and comprehension. Maybe mine. Maybe not. Anywhooo...

OP said coach O was like one of 4 ever to get a second chance. not one-in-four. Then another poster thru out a list of coaches (maybe you) off the top of his head. So, if that list is a list of coaches off the top of the head that didn't get retreaded then...you can actually see where I provided that list mostly did have second and third chances and decent careers. If that is a list of coaches that DID get retreaded, then nevermind.
 
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#59
#59
One name I haven't seen posted is Kliff Kingsbury. Fired from Texas Tech and hired as the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.
 
#60
#60
One name I haven't seen posted is Kliff Kingsbury. Fired from Texas Tech and hired as the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.


Good example. I tend to think most institutions, college or pro, understand that where you were HC doesn't necessarily dictate if you are good or bad. Kliff is a great offensive mind, and for all respective purposes was a very good coach at TT. He was recruiting kids to Lubbock. He did very well with what he was able to recruit and IMO elevated the program while he was there. He was gonna get another good gig quickly, college or pro. Now, in contrast take a Shula or a Jones at schools with resources and location such as Bama and UT, and you fail, that leaves a different trail of crumbs.
 
#61
#61
Most of them get 2nd and 3rd chances and often beyond. Look at Lou Holz and the number of HC jobs he had as an example. Les Myles, Saban, Charlie Weis, Howard Schnellenberger, and many others. The issue becomes if or when the idea stays attached to the person that they lost elsewhere what makes you think they can win here? They can job hop and resurrect themselves up until the idea sets in they just can't get it done any longer.
So in the interest of clarity and maybe we are talking about semantics but Holtz was never fired from a D1 job at least because of performance. The only place he was actually "let go" was Arkansas and that was because of his friendship and political advertising for then Senator Jesse Helms. The AD at Arky said he resigned and Lou said he was fired but wasn't given a reason. Many speculated it was due to political backlash from Democratic razorback boosters for his support of Helms. Not personal friends with the family by any means but I did go to school and Sunday school with his kids when he was coach at NCSU and followed his career. I will say this here for no other reason than it bothers me when people deride him for his speech etc on TV but that man was at church on sunday @ 8AM every week not matter that they had played across the country late Saturday night and didn't get home til 4:30 AM. He did alot of good in our community and I have alot of family in Columbia where they said he was well respected and involved in the community there as well.

OP has been soundly educated on his contention of 1-4 coaches getting D1 gigs after being fired but Kliff Kingsbury is another off the board example of second chances albeit not at a D1 school. He got a promotion when he got fired from a bottom tier D1 school and got a NFL head coaching gig!
 
#62
#62
One name I haven't seen posted is Kliff Kingsbury. Fired from Texas Tech and hired as the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals.
Dang it BOP I spent too long typing my Lou Holtz response but I thought of Kliff before you did you just type faster :D
 
#63
#63
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?

Each situation is different. In cases of Fulmer, Mack Brown, and Bowden, they were older and had been with 1 school for so long and lived in the same place so long, that they probably didn't want to move and rebuild with a new school.

It also probably depends on how successful they were at their previous job. Someone like Dooley, who was awful, wasn't likely to get a HC offer from a power 5 school any time soon. But someone like Kevin Sumlin, who never had a losing record at A&M, was pretty likely to get HC offers immediately. Mark Richt, Les Miles, Mike Leach, Kevin Sumlin, and Will Muschamp all pretty prominent coaches that rrecently found Power 5 HC jobs within 3 years after being fired from their previous HC job.
 
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#64
#64
Yeah I meant d1. And I also meant particularly power 5. Fired power 5 coaches never get hired again.
It's a new trend and it's not sustainable. Too many underqualified guys are getting spots they honestly should not. Too many guys are getting their step from coordinators to head coach in P5 spots instead of working their way up as head coaches in the lower ranks and its leaving them less prepared to be a head coach. Enough pan out that programs still do it but I see the more coming from established programs as head coaches in the future.
 
#65
#65
Tommy Tubberville, Ty Willingham, Charllie Weis, and Rich Rodriguez are 4 other examples that got power 5 HC jobs fairly quickly after getting fired.
 
#67
#67
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?

Don't forget about Kiffin
 
#68
#68
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?

Let me say, from my career, I’ve seen folks that didn’t perform the best, all sorts of reasons to get fired. But some people get reassigned or demoted at the same company, getting fired is one way to address a poor performance but not the only solution, it’s just the way it works.
What if, a head coach is on the hot seat, but he’s a great defensive coach, proven in his
Role. Let’s say like coach Pruitt ( I believe in what he’s doing and like it)
Example only or substitute Phil
Some guys just aren’t head coach material, insert butch here.
Why not demote back to his expertises, with Phil put him back as OC and move on.
Re adjust salaries, position coaches etc but keep them in our “company “. No ridiculous
Buyouts, etc. I hate us supporting butch, just not right but contract driven. I suppose
Maybe Sexton wouldn’t like it but geez this is completely out of hand
GBO
 
#69
#69
...someone like Kevin Sumlin, who never had a losing record at A&M, was pretty likely to get HC offers immediately. Mark Richt, Les Miles, Mike Leach, Kevin Sumlin, and Will Muschamp all pretty prominent coaches that rrecently found Power 5 HC jobs within 3 years after being fired from their previous HC job.

Not possible. Never happens, according to the OP.
 
#71
#71
Fulmer would've had a job at a 2nd or 3rd tier D1 school had he wanted it.

Most of the other guys that didn't get another job haven't worked their way back. In most cases you will need to fall back a few tiers or to an OC/DC position. I think Dooley will get another shot one day. He has worked his way back from a position coach in the NFL, and an OC that had a good offense, he'll show up a second time with as a HC one day. Basically can spin his time here as not being ready but he has learned since.

Butch I think is exposed as a guy who can ride the wave of someone else's recruiting. He needs to find another coach to follow from job to job to cash in on a nearly complete roster before trading up. He knows Kelly isn't coming around again and a lot of his success here was with Dooleys' kids and the dumb luck to hit on one outstanding talent at QB. That is unlikely going to work out for him again and he was never really a coaching specialist on either side of the ball. Think we won't see him much more, unless he drops a few tiers down maybe back to a AAC school.
 
#72
#72
I'm not one to blast an OP but either he meant something other than what he typed or he loves in a cave. There are tons of fired coaches who get 2nd chances. In the SEC alone you have orgeron, muschamp, kiffin. Wasn't the pirate fired at tx tech or did he "resign?"

ADs rarely get a 2nd chance. Coaches always get 2nd chances.
 
#74
#74
Fulmer would've had a job at a 2nd or 3rd tier D1 school had he wanted it.

Most of the other guys that didn't get another job haven't worked their way back. In most cases you will need to fall back a few tiers or to an OC/DC position. I think Dooley will get another shot one day. He has worked his way back from a position coach in the NFL, and an OC that had a good offense, he'll show up a second time with as a HC one day. Basically can spin his time here as not being ready but he has learned since.

Butch I think is exposed as a guy who can ride the wave of someone else's recruiting. He needs to find another coach to follow from job to job to cash in on a nearly complete roster before trading up. He knows Kelly isn't coming around again and a lot of his success here was with Dooleys' kids and the dumb luck to hit on one outstanding talent at QB. That is unlikely going to work out for him again and he was never really a coaching specialist on either side of the ball. Think we won't see him much more, unless he drops a few tiers down maybe back to a AAC school.

Fulmer could’ve had a job at a lower level Power Conference school had he put the effort in to pursue a job instead of not wanting to put in the time required.
 
#75
#75
Yeah. Nevermind. Seems obvious to me that my off the cuff list is of guys who were fired from P5 programs and got 2nd or even 3rd shots at other P5 programs. Not sure what the list would mean otherwise.......
 

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