Why is enforcing the law wrong in the USA?

#1
BigOrangeTrain

BigOrangeTrain

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#1
I was talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing enforcing the law. That conversation led us to immigration laws and it got me thinking about the current situation in America. And it also leads me to wonder, why is it so taboo and wrong to enforce the laws that already exist? Just like immigration laws. We have immigration laws in this country and if you are a person in this country illegally, why is it wrong that you be deported? If it is wrong, why? So are we a nation of laws?
 
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#2
#2
Nothing is wrong with enforcing laws. Selective enforcement, targeting only certain groups is wrong. Treat everyone the same.
 
#4
#4
BigOrangeTrain said:
I was talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing enforcing the law. That conversation led us to immigration laws and it got me thinking about the current situation in America. And it also leads me to wonder, why is it so taboo and wrong to enforce the laws that already exist? Just like immigration laws. We have immigration laws in this country and if you are a person in this country illegally, why is it wrong that you be deported? If it is wrong, why? So are we a nation of laws?
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The way I see it this is no different than Southern resistance to desegregation. In the '50s and '60s we sent in the National Guard and Federal law enforcement to enforce Federal laws. This is no different and should be approached in the same manner.
 
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#10
#10
BigOrangeTrain said:
I was talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing enforcing the law. That conversation led us to immigration laws and it got me thinking about the current situation in America. And it also leads me to wonder, why is it so taboo and wrong to enforce the laws that already exist? Just like immigration laws. We have immigration laws in this country and if you are a person in this country illegally, why is it wrong that you be deported? If it is wrong, why? So are we a nation of laws?
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We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
 
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#11
#11
n_huffhines said:
We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
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Amen
 
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#12
#12
n_huffhines said:
We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
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Does a state have the right to enforce federal laws that the federal government is lax in enforcing? Should Arizona have been allowed to enforce immigration laws that the Obama administration was neglecting to enforce? Are sanctuary cities justified in defying a potential Trump administration enforcement of immigration laws? Does rule of law exist? Laws are not there to be disregarded. If the law is sh***y then it needs to be repealed.
 
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#13
#13
BigOrangeTrain said:
I was talking with a friend earlier and we were discussing enforcing the law. That conversation led us to immigration laws and it got me thinking about the current situation in America. And it also leads me to wonder, why is it so taboo and wrong to enforce the laws that already exist? Just like immigration laws. We have immigration laws in this country and if you are a person in this country illegally, why is it wrong that you be deported? If it is wrong, why? So are we a nation of laws?
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There is a big difference between enforcing the law and serving justice. We have plenty of unjust laws that are enforced zealously in this country, yet we see very little justice being served. Not saying that immigration laws are necessarily unjust, but we have many examples of cops killing/harming people or taking their property over loose cigarettes, carrying reefer, or a host of other trivial matters. Yet, you hardly ever see the Hillary Clintons, Jamie Dimons, or George Soros of the world catching any kind of grief from the cops.
 
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#14
#14
It's wrong because we fall under an English law style system which is a Western based system. Western systems are Anglo-Saxon systems. Apparently the only people capable of following White Anglo Saxon English style law are White people. It is unfair to expect POC to be held to such rigorous standards. It is quite similiar to how different racial and ethnic groups need to have different education standards..
 
#15
#15
n_huffhines said:
We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
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What are unjust laws and what standard of virtue are you comparing them to do come to the unjust law conclusion?
 
#16
#16
k-town_king said:
Nothing is wrong with enforcing laws. Selective enforcement, targeting only certain groups is wrong. Treat everyone the same.
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Let's say 100 sharks invade your local lake. 87% of those sharks are whale sharks. 13% are great whites. Which ones should the authorities concentrate on? The ones that ultra violent super predators of the deep? Or the non aggressive filter feeder shark which poses no real threat?
 
#17
#17
Laws used to be laws. Now, laws are a suggestion. But in this new psuedo law society some laws are really important with strict enforcement and some laws are unimportant with discretionary enforcement. Sometimes we know which are which; sometimes we dont. My advice,follow the ones you wanna and ignore the others.
 
#19
#19
Madscientistvol said:
Does a state have the right to enforce federal laws that the federal government is lax in enforcing? Should Arizona have been allowed to enforce immigration laws that the Obama administration was neglecting to enforce? Are sanctuary cities justified in defying a potential Trump administration enforcement of immigration laws? Does rule of law exist? Laws are not there to be disregarded. If the law is sh***y then it needs to be repealed.
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Much easier said than done. Thank goodness for nullification.

The answers to your questions have nothing to do with whether or not enforcing certain laws is "wrong", but I'll explore this tangent.

By law, yes.

By law, yes.

The question is too vague for me to give a good answer.

In absolute terms, no. Trump will violate the law numerous times. Obama did it. Bush did it. States do it. Police do it. And everybody gets away with it to some degree. Relative to most countries, yes we have rule of law.
 
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#20
#20
n_huffhines said:
We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
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Why is it ok for illegal immigrants to reside and work here? Whats wrong with deporting them and actually following the laws in place? So should we just have totally open borders?
 
#21
#21
FLVOL_79 said:
What are unjust laws and what standard of virtue are you comparing them to do come to the unjust law conclusion?
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It's up to you, really. You be the one to decide which law is unjust and then you nullify it. There may be consequences to nullification, so choose wisely.
 
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#22
#22
BigOrangeTrain said:
Why is it ok for illegal immigrants to reside and work here?
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Why is it not OK should be the question, IMO. Just because there is a law doesn't mean we have to enforce it, so....

Whats wrong with deporting them and actually following the laws in place?
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As a matter of principle, this goes against values America was founded upon. These principles are so foundational that they are etched into the Statue of Liberty.

As a matter of morality, how can anybody deny someone else a shot at the American dream?

As a matter of practicality, we need their labor. There is more benefit than cost to having them.

So should we just have totally open borders?
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No. I will always be for border security. However, as long as we are so stingy about immigration, I cannot support the full enforcement of our laws. If we can make a real, attainable pathway to legal residency here in the US, then I will fully support deportation of cheaters. Right now the choice for so many is come here illegally or don't come at all. How can we turn them away? They are fighting harder to achieve the American dream than most Americans. This is supposed to be a meritocracy. That's why we've been such badasses throughout our history. This generation is soft.
 
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#23
#23
k-town_king said:
Nothing is wrong with enforcing laws. Selective enforcement, targeting only certain groups is wrong. Treat everyone the same.
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So what youre saying, regarding immigration law, illegals should be treated the same as legal residents?
 
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#24
#24
n_huffhines said:
We have unjust laws. We should only enforce the just ones. This is part of checks and balances. States have long nullified bad federal laws. Juries can nullify bad laws by voting not guilty, even if the person is guilty of violating the letter of the law. Cops do it all the time, like when they let someone off for speeding. The President can just decide at any time he doesn't want to execute on a law.

All of these non-enforcement controls are in place for a reason...there are a lot of ****ty laws.
Click to expand...

I will agree with this

Some of the most insane laws involve domestic abuse

Some are so over the top, a person can be arrested based solely on what the victim says.
 
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