Why does Tennessee have such bad in-state talent?

#76
#76
orangeblood79 said:
You don't live in or around Memphis do you?

Memphis has, and always will be, Memphis first, Ole Miss second, & UT and Arkansas tied for (a distant)third.

That's just the way it is.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

Memphis could easily be another state. I got cussed there for my Vols attire way, way more than I did in Daytona Beach. I know nothing of east TN, so I can not comment.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#77
#77
tsvol06 said:
Yeah but of that black population how much is west of Nashville. If we got everyone from Memphis, Nashville, Jackson, whatever we would have similar instate talent.
Click to expand...

The classes were the problem during the 80's and 90's in Nashville. I was at Hunters Lane in 93 where seniors were taking Algebra-1! What a joke. Those kids could not get into school with a key!!! Not many coaches new how to market what players they did have either. No summer camps back then either. No one here really cares about HS sports here either. They only games folks went to were the ones involving Stratford, Whites Creek, and Maplewood and that was becuase of the girls and the fights, not the game itself. So there is your in-state talent from Nashville; in jail, selling drugs, got three kids, or working some dumbass job. V'B!.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
Last edited:
#78
#78
Volst53 said:
The biggest issue is coaching. Coaches in Tennessee lack the drive in sending out tape to get their players noticed by colleges. This leads to the fact Tennessee isn't known to produce a lot of talent. This leads college coaches not to look at the state of Tennessee for talent. I think this is starting to change slowly. The internet and youtube is making it easier for the players to get their own information out instead of relying on the high school coach. At my school I played at we had a 300 pound line man that could run a 4.9. He was a beast. He had a lot of mid major schools all over him, but never sent out his tape or took him to any big camps. This is one reason the smaller colleges in Tennessee are normally pretty talented. They take the talent that is over looked at by the bigger schools.
Click to expand...

Ironically, one of the winningest coaches in Georgia is T McFerrin, from Murfreesboro. He came down here and took over lousy programs and turned them into winners.
Don't know about youth football in Tennessee, but they start playing tackle football down here when they are four or so in many communities.
 
#82
#82
give_him 6 said:
You stole our coach (Lassiter)! But Hatfield worked out pretty good. He is a good guy. He was my LB coach and then I moved to Missouri the year before Lassiter left for Gallatin.
Click to expand...
About half of the Green Wave Nation is ready to run him out of town, although we did finally win a couple of playoff games this year.
 
#83
#83
I played HS football in Tennessee's largest classification. My boys now play HS football in Texas' largest classification and my best friend is OC at Red Bank (Chattanooga) who is always good in Tennessee HS football. We have had this conversation numerous times.

First tradition. Texas lives and breathes HS football. The smallest crowd my boy played for this past year was 11,000. The largest, 30,000 and they diidnt even make the playoffs. This volnation board? His high school has one just like it and its covered up with folks. The peewee programs are huge here too and even the smallest classifications play hellacious football. Colt McCoy was a AA quarterback. Population and weather are also factors as is coaching.

HS coaches in 5A in Texas make 120K a year and more in some places and have no teaching responsibilities. Facilities are fabulous. Turf, weight rooms, indoor facilities. 325 kids came out for his team this year so, numbers are huge. Head coaches run the entire program from feeder schools (7th-8th grade) freshman, JV and varsity and each of those teams has (3) squads. They run the same schemes from 7th grade on. They are 100% immersed in the program. Head coaches will fire your ass if you are a 7th - 8th grade coach and not going balls to the wall and living and breathing the program.

Its a different mindset and its different priorities.
 
#84
#84
Dallastxvol who is Red Bank's OC now? I know it used to be Slaughter but I would like to know who replaced him... BTW great first post youre exactly right. It is the whole program, atmosphere, and mindset that makes the 2 different.
 
#85
#85
Thx Corn. Whats Corn from a Jar? haha...moonshine? The guys name is Janow. He was the running back coach last year and got promoted. The head coach at RBHS played OL for Fulmer, Tim Daniels. In the past, Red Bank could never get over the Maryville hump and always lost in the quarter finals to them. This year I believe it was Greenville that got em in the quarters. Huge disappointment for them as they had the stud (for Tennessee) running back. 2 star kid going to MTSU. You may remember Gerald Riggs for the Vols? He carried the football for Red Bank back in the day.
 
#86
#86
FL football is so good for 3 reasons:

1. Densely populated cities
- tons of schools in a close proximity in Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Ft. Laud, breeds competition.
- schools can afford to play a wide variety of teams every year because they only have to travel from mia to ftl for example.

2. structured football programs
- I went to Rutherford High School in Panama City, and every single one of our coaches played FBS or FCS football. This is the norm in Florida, I don't know about TN.
- strength and nutrition programs - the school fed the football players and gave them protein and creatine shakes. Structured weightlifting programs in spring and summer.

3. Weather
- this one is kind of obvious, I was in shorts and flip flops this past Christmas. Although, I don't really think Tennessee can use weather as much of an excuse, I think TN's problem is geography and population.

Think about it like this, if TN was the size of FL or TX, it would include GA, AL, SC, and maybe MS. If that was the case, think of all the sick football hotbeds that are in that area.
 
Last edited:
#89
#89
Tennessee has alot of talent for the population. Alot of our kids do not get looked at or national attention so they are rated poor and end up going to smaller schools. Henderson, Harrell, Chad Clifton, haynesworth, al wilson, teague, pat willis, i beleive even Jason Witten(not sure about him) to name a few have come from tennessee. Take Pat Willis from small town of Bruceton, he was not that highly regarded. He ended up going to Ole Miss and the rest is history. Alot of those kids end up at places like UTM, Murray State, etc. I will also bet that the kid Avery Williamson will be a force in a couple of years at Kentucky and we will be wondering how he got away. Al Wilson was one of my favorite players for UT and I bet he was not as Nationally regarded as one of the best LBs. Just my opinion, I think the rating systems are biased against alot of these kids from tennessee.
 
#90
#90
roddo518 said:
Tennessee has alot of talent for the population. Alot of our kids do not get looked at or national attention so they are rated poor and end up going to smaller schools. Henderson, Harrell, Chad Clifton, haynesworth, al wilson, teague, pat willis, i beleive even Jason Witten(not sure about him) to name a few have come from tennessee. Take Pat Willis from small town of Bruceton, he was not that highly regarded. He ended up going to Ole Miss and the rest is history. Alot of those kids end up at places like UTM, Murray State, etc. I will also bet that the kid Avery Williamson will be a force in a couple of years at Kentucky and we will be wondering how he got away. Al Wilson was one of my favorite players for UT and I bet he was not as Nationally regarded as one of the best LBs. Just my opinion, I think the rating systems are biased against alot of these kids from tennessee.
Click to expand...

yup, I agree. Bo Wallace is a good one to use as an example.
 
#92
#92
roddo518 said:
Tennessee has alot of talent for the population. Alot of our kids do not get looked at or national attention so they are rated poor and end up going to smaller schools. Henderson, Harrell, Chad Clifton, haynesworth, al wilson, teague, pat willis, i beleive even Jason Witten(not sure about him) to name a few have come from tennessee. Take Pat Willis from small town of Bruceton, he was not that highly regarded. He ended up going to Ole Miss and the rest is history. Alot of those kids end up at places like UTM, Murray State, etc. I will also bet that the kid Avery Williamson will be a force in a couple of years at Kentucky and we will be wondering how he got away. Al Wilson was one of my favorite players for UT and I bet he was not as Nationally regarded as one of the best LBs. Just my opinion, I think the rating systems are biased against alot of these kids from tennessee.
Click to expand...
Just looked it up, Pat Willis according to rivals was a 3 star athlete, he was ranked as the 60th ILB by rivals. He only has turned out to be the best LB in the NFL at the moment! Alot of these kids that dominate in Tennessee probably need to have the Tennessee curve put with them and add a star to what the so called experts put on one of our players!
 
#93
#93
I posted this on another thread, but I'll reiterate here. What do TX, GA, FL, OH, SC, AL, LA, AR, and others have in common that Tennessee doesn't? Well, it isn't black players because they all have black players.... We can't argue for overall population because TN has more people than AL, AR, SC, and other states-but still fails to produce even half the talent. Then answer is the size of the schools. Here in TN, we have 2 high schools in towns that should only have one. Franklin/Independence, Brentwood/Ravenwood, Hendersonville/Beech, Gallatin/Station Camp, White House/Heritage, and the list goes on and on. Sure, this is great for the TSSAA because they make twice the money come playoff time. And yeah, it's great for school spirit to establish new cross town rivalries, but what the tssaa and state/local governments have unintentially done is destroy the possibility for player development. And that is KEY. I'll use my hometown of Gallatin as an example. 7 years ago, they started Station Camp High, making it and Gallatin High the 2 teams in city. Each will hold around 1500 students, as st. camp draws from eastern Hendersonville also... Well, that's great, but what would have happened if instead of 2 schools each holding 1500 kids, they built 1 school holding 3000? A bit unfair, as the largest schools in the state of TN are barely more than 2000 or so. But imagine if the aforementioned towns, other mid-size cities, and rural/county areas increased the overall size of the school.... Well, what you would see is a weeding out process of bad coaches, first of all. Secondly, you would have more atheletic funding per school to pay for better out of state coaches to come in. Thirdly, with a better selection of higher paid coaches in place (added to a better talent pool per school), programs would begin to see division 1 development from atheletes that have been here the whole time. But I bet the though of bigger schools and fewer playoff games has never crossed anyone in power's mind. BTW, I feel that this has had an effect on overall education as well, as TN has been awful in national rankings.(Also, larger schools are more helpful in the preparedness of college life) So yes, it is coaches. And yes, to some extent it is population. But this is merely a direct effect of an apparent cap that the state of TN has put on size when relating to high schools. And my thought is that the state and local govt's of TN need to stop throwing money at new high schools every time a teacher has to pull an extra desk or two in the classroom because it's "crowded". And instead of building a new and separate school, build a new one of the same name. Just my thoughts.
 
#94
#94
I should also add the analogy I used earlier... Let's say you buy 2 Ford Rangers(2 high schools holding 1500 students each in a town of 40,000 in TN), and your friend buys a Ford-F250(1 high school holding 3000 students in a town of 40,000 in Texas). Your friend will spend more initially, but who is going to come out on the losing end when it's time to buy gas(teacher/coach salaries), tires(individual school clubs/programs), change the oil(utilities, food, and supplies) , and get a tune up(having to accomodate to overpopulation)? Well, you and the 2 Ford Rangers(town in TN with 2 high schools) lose, because although the rangers are themselves fuel efficient, the overall cost of maintanance of 2 vehicles far surpasses the cost of maintanance for 1 vehicle. All the while, the F-250(town in TX with 1 high school) has been performing tasks that the Ranger just can't do, and your friend got alot more done. And when it comes time to get a new truck, well.... Your friend gets another F-250, and you get nothing because you've spent all your money on the upkeep of 2 trucks. That's my thoughts on the state of TN's approach to education and atheletics compared to other states'.
 
#95
#95
jrwvol said:
Well said but also look at the population of football "hot beds"

California 37 million
Texas 24 million
Florida 18 million
Georgia 10 million
TN 6 million
AL 5 million

It is a numbers game excluding AL.
Click to expand...

But doesn't Alabama only have 3-4 high schools, tops?

:)
 
#96
#96
Regulator said:
But doesn't Alabama only have 3-4 high schools, tops?

:)
Click to expand...

Lol Reg. I think you're right. And from what I understand, they are building one more down there. But this one is going to have electricity, so it won't be done until they find enough people to screw in the light bulb.
 
#97
#97
IMO, there are several factors that play into this. First, strictly from a numbers perspective, Tennessee will never produce the number of D-I players as some other states. That being said, I'm sure there are many quality football players in Tennessee that just aren't afforded the exposure that they may get if they played in Texas, Florida, etc. There's a decent chance that player A is by far the best player on his team, but his teams W-L record is poor, so (fairly or not) player A will not look as attractive as he would if his team was undefeated. The final factor I believe is coaching. It's the case here in WNC, and I'm sure it's the same in most of Tennessee, that coaches also have to be part of the teaching faculty. Lots of coaches would make poor teachers. Likewise, many teachers would make poor coaches. When push comes to shove, the emphasis has to be placed on teaching, which is hard to argue with, so you may wind up with a poor football coach. Those two hats can be hard to wear at the same time. I do believe that if you take a kid from the projects in (substitute your city of choice here), he may have a will to escape his surroundings and a natural aggressiveness that can't be taught, but it doesn't make him a better athlete, he just reaches his potential quicker/easier/more often.
 
#98
#98
Also, from a recruiting/ranking standpoint, it takes less work to go a 5A/6A or whatever game in Texas or Florida. Chances are, you're watching a 1/2 dozen or more D-1 prospects in a single game. When you're in rural Tennessee, Kentucky, or wherever, you may find one legitimate prospect in one game out of two or three games that you would have to hit in one night. In that case, you'd probably have a limited view of that prospect for having seen so little of their game.
 
#99
#99
I live in Lincoln County TN and one thing I have noticed, especially in small towns and counties, is the politics involved in the local sports programs. If your not an old town name or have money, the playing opportunities are limited, especially at the high school level. I go to the local high schools' football games. I have seen first hand how some good football players stand the sidelines for whole ballgames while some terrible players play the whole game just because of their last name. I have lived here for twenty years and my son (who is in 9th grade) has already decided he is not going out for football next year. There were 10 or 15 players, juniors and seniors, that quit this last season, (during mid season) because they knew they were better than some names getting the playing time.
As for off season training, my son played 9th grade football and they are still doing weight training and speed drills. All the football players have PE the last period of the day. They do max-out on legs one week and max-out on bench the next week. This continues until school is over. If you don't improve your max-out weekly, then there are up/downs and burpees added to your routine. Starting in the spring, the ones going out for the high school team will start going to the high school for last period. The weight room is open for "voluntary training" during the summer months.
 
#100
#100
I want to bump this for another round of discussion. I was just thinking about this. You can't say it's because of lack of "African American" players. Nashville, Memphis, hell even little old Ripley where I'm from and many other small towns have a very large AA population(keeping it PC otherwise this might end up in the politics forum). We didn't seem to have a hard time pulling great players from in-state during our good years in the late 90's and early 2000's. So what the heck happened between then and now?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top