Why do people think firing coaches is the answer?

[Weezer]

Stopped reading after the first few posts, but I'm not of the mindset it's time to fire Butch. Mahoney, on the other hand, I don't think he should be feeling confident in his job security. His job is to coach the OL. Even the non-freshmen have been unimpressive. No one has been challenged to step up and lead on that line. Their footwork is atrocious and has not improved as the season has progressed. They whiff on blocks letting opposing players run around them rather than finding a way to actually engage. Hell, from the standpoint of strictly protecting your qb, I'd tell them if they're going to get beat, at least hold so your qb isn't getting his ass mauled. I've gotten to the point where I'd prefer a holding penalty over watching Worley getting raped by opposing defenses. Bottomline, I don't think Mahoney has helped this line in the least. Butch is reportedly extremely loyal to his coaches, but he needs to be more loyal to this team and get an OL coach that can actually teach.

So yeah, at this point, enough frustration has set in that I'm all for firing Mahoney. I have no confidence that he will turn it around.

As to the OP's original question, not everyone feels firing a head coach is the answer. Sometimes, it is the answer, but sometimes problems can be fixed by simply tinkering with the staff. A head coach needs to be able to manage his staff and not get so caught up in loyalty and friendship that he refuses to replace a coach that isn't very good at his job. When a head coach can't overcome that loyalty, when he puts his staff above the players, that's when you seriously need to start questioning that head coach's job security. Butch is going to have a lot to reflect on this off-season. He needs to reevaluate his staff and how they fit into the SEC. Butch needsto do what's best for UT and not what's easiest for him. Like I said, my opinion is one particular position coach needs to go. Maybe a few others do as well, but that's up to Butch to decide. His decisions will impact his job security in the future.

 

[TVOL71]

That's true... but it can and should be the difference in a game or two per year, right? It has not been the difference in any game so far this year in a positive way. You could even argue that the bumbling fool that is about to get fired at UF outschemed and out strategized UT...

You mean by getting the refs to call for him?

 

[TVOL71]

So you are saying he should have lost to Vandy last fall and UF this year? Muschamp beat him without an offense... think about that. Jones has lost to the two worst UF teams in the last 25 years.

To answer your question directly, this season ends with 4 opponents who have less talent and only marginally better experience if that. UT and Mizzou are VERY close with regard to experience... but UT is much more talented in terms of raw athleticism. All 4 of those opponents are in the bottom half of the SEC in most statistical categories. They rank 8, 9, 13, and 14 in scoring D... and I doubt UK is 9th after playing MSU today.

UT also has no offense this year, thanks mostly to the O-line, which Dooley is mostly responsible for. It is clearly questionable that Florida wins without the refs help.

 

[TVOL71]

There will never be a shortage of excuses. At some point a coach here has to win, in particular win games you're not expected to win.

I agree, and that point is during the 2016 season, when he has a team that is really his team, not partly Dooley's.

 

[MedicT]

Muschamp?

lol:

The statement was sarcastic in nature based on the frequently expressed opinion that a second season is the make or break year for a coach. Muschamp's second year went fairly well then the bottom fell out.:crazy:

 

[TVOL71]

Not you really but there are those who lean on the injury excuse very heavily... but EVERYONE has injuries and most of them hurt team effectiveness unless you are Bama. They may be the only team that can go two deep everywhere and sometimes 3 without a drop off.



You are probably right... which leaves me wondering about the commitment to winning championships.

Jones really hits pretty hard on the difference between hoping to win and expecting to win... you have to have that with the people who make decisions about coaching staffs too.

It is a commitment to long term winning, not to managing win one season then go back to 500 or worse. That is what Butch is trying to build.

 

[UTFootballFan]

This team needs a new offensive scheme. This read option that only ever goes to the RB's is horrible. Our play calling is so predictable.

So, you still think this is primarily a read option scheme. Just another example of an internet forum football expert with no credibility.

 

[TVOL71]

IMHO, every situation is different. Depends on the talent at your disposal. Gus Malzahn takes Gene Chizik's players to the national championship game in no time flat. I'm pretty sure Butch didn't have that luxury. No need to talk regime change for at least 2 more years. If Butch can get it done, it could be good for a long time. Patience.

Malzahn was there with Chizik for 3 of the prior 4 years, so most of the offensive recruits were his anyway. I think Malzahn and the DC at the time were probably more responsible for their national championship than Chizik.

 

[TVOL71]

Here's a better question, why do you think we are the only fan base that wants coaches fired who aren't successful? Should Florida give Muschamp several more years? He had an 11-2 year after all, something that hasn't happened here in decades.

Another question, why do many on here think UT is the only major college football program that requires 10 years to rebuild? Every other program that has bounced back to success managed to accomplish it in 2-3 years - and they fired coaches along the way until they got to that timeframe of turnaround.

I do not want butch gone AT ALL but this same line of crap was used to argue for keeping Dooley around. Now he's gone and suddenly all his supporters hopped on the butch train. Interesting right? I love coach, but what I really love is UT and I honestly don't give a gdamn who the coach is so long as we win!

I don't think anyone has asked for 10 years. He should have through the 2016, maybe 2017 season, and if they are not doing well (9 or 10 wins) by then, it may be time for a change. Most of the other coaches who turned their program around in year 2 or 3 had a substantially better base to build on. They have the defense going well with a very young group, the offense is just taking longer. I think the O-line is possibly the hardest position to get performing at a high level, since they have to recognize numerous alignments and blitz packages, and Dooley didn't help with his recruiting.

 

[majorvol]

Tee very seldom ran. He was a pass first QB with some mobility

Some mobility beats none everytime

 

[TVOL71]

He won 9 games in year two at a program that had had 1 winning season in the previous 9. They didn't have to be too patient. He gave them reason to hope almost right away.


I think the first point where you really sit and consider that is after next season at the earliest. The wins between now and then should be the evaluation tool.

Six or 7 this year then say 8 or 9 next year while competing for the East... and I'd be pretty satisfied. That would be progress that points to possible championships in the future. A losing season this year followed by a 6 or 7 win season next fall would suggest the opposite.

Yes, he managed 9 wins in 2010, but then fell back to 7-6 the next year, and by the way, they have yet to be better than 4-4 against SEC teams, and play cream-puff out of SEC games. If UT had played a cream puff instead of Oregon last year a bowl game would have occurred, probably the same this year.

 

[TennesseeT]

Because they get paid obscene amounts of money to do one thing. Plus, other coaches seem to be able to achieve more with less.

So you could see the writing on the wall with Dooley? What have you seen differently from this coaching staff? Brick by brick, team 118, one, 3 6, snap and clear mentality, believe in the process. All the same bs coach speak we heard from dools.

Really what have you seen? With the win loss record recruiting won't last and then what will you say. You'll prob post the same thing for the next coach stating you could see the writing on the wall with butch.

 

[sjt18]

Yes, he managed 9 wins in 2010, but then fell back to 7-6 the next year, and by the way, they have yet to be better than 4-4 against SEC teams, and play cream-puff out of SEC games. If UT had played a cream puff instead of Oregon last year a bowl game would have occurred, probably the same this year.

The improvement is still evident... since they did the same before he arrived and lost. If anything his schedule in the West has been much tougher than before he arrived.

 

[TVOL71]

Because they get paid obscene amounts of money to do one thing. Plus, other coaches seem to be able to achieve more with less.

So you could see the writing on the wall with Dooley? What have you seen differently from this coaching staff? Brick by brick, team 118, one, 3 6, snap and clear mentality, believe in the process. All the same bs coach speak we heard from dools.

Really what have you seen? With the win loss record recruiting won't last and then what will you say. You'll prob post the same thing for the next coach stating you could see the writing on the wall with butch.

No, Dools talked about the team needing to shower, and about World War II, and other stuff that had nothing to do with building a team. Haven't heard that from Butch.

 

[TennesseeT]

Sorry but I jumped off the Butch wagon at the decision to punt on 4th and 1 @ the 50 up 3-0 against a top 5 team on the road. That was a gutless call and was reflected in the teams performance the rest of the way. Play to win don't play not to lose, especially when you're 18 pt dogs and havent sniffed a bowl game in 3 years, and your 0-2 in conference play.

 

[sjt18]

UT also has no offense this year, thanks mostly to the O-line, which Dooley is mostly responsible for. It is clearly questionable that Florida wins without the refs help.

You could make a similar argument if you really wanted to that Dooley should have gotten another year because Kiffin and Fulmer had screwed him. Jones has had two years to figure the OL problem out. It wasn't a secret but they didn't come up with an effective plan. Excuses are what losers do...

 

[TennesseeT]

All I see is the same stupid mistakes and extremely questionable play calling.

 

[sjt18]

It is a commitment to long term winning, not to managing win one season then go back to 500 or worse. That is what Butch is trying to build.

Where's your evidence that losing for several years will do more to result in long term winning than what Freeze or Saban have done?

 

[UTFootballFan]

Where's your evidence that losing for several years will do more to result in long term winning than what Freeze or Saban have done?

Tennessee isn't Alabama when it comes to football.

 

[TVOL71]

The improvement is still evident... since they did the same before he arrived and lost. If anything his schedule in the West has been much tougher than before he arrived.

Yes, he it appears he is just now really actually starting to turn it around in his sixth year as head coach. Note that he has had a 5-7, two 7-6 and one 8-5 season, plus the 9-4 season in 2010 (which was something of an anomaly). And his SEC schedules include Kentucky as his regular East rival, and Ole Miss and Arkansas have not been good the last few years, and he played UT with Dooley in 2012. So except for the win against #22 Florida in 2010, he has not beaten a top 25 team until this year. Except for that Florida win, I don't see how this is different from UT. And UT beat a higher ranked SC last year. So by your observation, using the same schedule we should expect UT to really turn it around in 2018. I am betting that Butch turns it around sooner.

 

[Wide_Receiver_U]

IMHO This Original post that started that this thread should be the most liked post in the history of volnation.com......COULD NOT AGREE MORE!!!

 

[TVOL71]

Where's your evidence that losing for several years will do more to result in long term winning than what Freeze or Saban have done?

You prefer to do it like Muschamp? Not me. And Freeze did not do anything special in his first 2 years (6-6, 7-5 reg season). Saban had better talent to begin with, but still went 6-6 his first year.

 

[MedicT]

Where's your evidence that losing for several years will do more to result in long term winning than what Freeze or Saban have done?

Since you are the one with the problem with Coach Jones it falls upon you to present evidence to support your opinion.

With Jones in his second year you cannot do so with any level of reliability.

Therefore, since you cannot present any evidence with any level of reliability your continued campaign to discredit Coach Jones has the veracity of a spoiled crying little girl.:salute:

But more importantly, you seem to have an issue with a corn cob where it doesn't belong. I suggest you seek medical advice.

 

[UTFootballFan]

I've come to realize some on here make up their mind based on emotional motivations regardless how irrational, then go and find scenarios they think support their beliefs.

I would recommend using some common sense and logic to form conclusions. Yes, there are single season turnarounds. That is not the norm. Firing coaches every two years is detrimental to any program regardless the color of the jerserys.

Considering how football savvy you are, as evidenced by your number of posts on here, how about you set an appointment with Jones and his staff to let them know where they are accessing up and how to right the ship?

 

[Deputy Fife]

i've come to realize some on here make up their mind based on emotional motivations regardless how irrational, then go and find scenarios they think support their beliefs.

I would recommend using some common sense and logic to form conclusions. Yes, there are single season turnarounds. That is not the norm. Firing coaches every two years is detrimental to any program regardless the color of the jerserys.

Nobody wants to fire the coaches.