Why Do Citizens Need Assault Weapons?

#426
#426
In my 16 years in LE, I have never arrested a person, carying a firearm, that had it legally registered or owned. They rarely were hunters and most of the time cared nothing of the fact that they were carrying it ilegally

The war on drugs should be an indication to Americans that making something illegal never works. Prohibition is another example. Lawless individuals care nothing about observing laws. To think they would is moronic

The 2nd Amendment is the most important. It protects your right as a citizen to protect yourself, not only from other citizens, but the government itself.

If the government can so easily push aside the 2nd Amendment, whats to stop them from taking your 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 10th?

A government so callus to the rights of its citizens is dangerous to all freedoms
 
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#427
#427
TheDeeble said:
If govts murdering and oppressing it's own citizens is what you mean by "it", it's happened way more than once. History is littered with govt abuse.

I don't see why anyone thinks it can't happen today. People are the same today as they were 1000 years ago.
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They think that we are intellectually smarter when its the total opposite

People are far more ignorant of reality than they were 100 years ago
 
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#428
#428
mtt2d said:
The government shouldn't ban weapons imo. Banning weapons just looks like a political power struggle with no end in sight to me. Instead, they should try to find out why people do these horrible acts and try to prevent them from happening. We flew a man to the moon among many other great achievements so certainly we can figure out something.
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Landing a man to the moon is a much easier task than understanding what is running through the minds of 300 million people.
 
#429
#429
People are trying to come up with a simple answer for a complex problem

How about we spend our money being smart?

In this journey to secure our schools perhaps we should start with advanced security
We could start with double doors with ID required with instant background checks and limited access until a background check is performed
Everyone must have an appointment or be a parent to gain admittance

Perhaps we could make it impossible to break a window from the outside
Perhaps we could are a guard in every school with a weapon
Perhaps we shoould give every first Responder including Firemen a weapon
Perhaps School authorities should have wireless internet to connect to the 300 digital cameras in the school
Perhaps we could have secure classroom doors that can be locked by a button on the desk

ALL of these things are available right now.....It takes alot of money to try and pass and enforce a weapon control ban...let's use that money on something that will help
 
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#430
#430
CountVolcula said:
In my 16 years in LE, I have never arrested a person, carying a firearm, that had it legally registered or owned. They rarely were hunters and most of the time cared nothing of the fact that they were carrying it ilegally

The war on drugs should be an indencation to Americans that making something illegal never works. Prohibition is another example. Lawless individuals care nothing about observing laws. To think they would is moronic

The 2nd Amendment is the most important. It protects your right as a citizen to protect yourself, not only from other citizens, but the government itself.

If the government can so easily push aside the 2nd Amendment, whats to stop them from taking your 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 10th?

A government so callus to the rights of its citizens is dangerous to all freedoms
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The 2nd amendment isn't just about guns, it is about all arms. Do you think private citizens should have the right to have nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, tanks, etc. ?

If this is about safeguarding against a tyrannical government, how else can you do it without individual citizens having the most potent weapons?

Or maybe, just maybe, the core of your argument is just silly.....
 
#431
#431
Honey Boo Boo Vol said:
The 2nd amendment isn't just about guns, it is about all arms. Do you think private citizens should have the right to have nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, tanks, etc. ?

If this is about safeguarding against a tyrannical government, how else can you do it without individual citizens having the most potent weapons?

Or maybe, just maybe, the core of your argument is just silly.....
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You must not know much about history
 
#432
#432
PKT_VOL said:
Landing a man to the moon is a much easier task than understanding what is running through the minds of 300 million people.
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I agree. But banning weapons really does nothing to address the underlying problem, which is whatever makes people kill relentlessly. It's not the guns, imo.
 
#434
#434
BandVOL said:
People are trying to come up with a simple answer for a complex problem

How about we spend our money being smart?

In this journey to secure our schools perhaps we should start with advanced security
We could start with double doors with ID required with instant background checks and limited access until a background check is performed
Everyone must have an appointment or be a parent to gain admittance

Perhaps we could make it impossible to break a window from the outside
Perhaps we could are a guard in every school with a weapon
Perhaps we shoould give every first Responder including Firemen a weapon
Perhaps School authorities should have wireless internet to connect to the 300 digital cameras in the school
Perhaps we could have secure classroom doors that can be locked by a button on the desk

ALL of these things are available right now.....It takes alot of money to try and pass and enforce a weapon control ban...let's use that money on something that will help
Click to expand...

Solid answer, imo. Most schools have the appearance of security in place right now. We have security cameras at the front door and in the classrooms. Doors are secured with electronic locks that require someone to push a button to open them and generally they enter into an airlock arrangement where, conceivably, you could trap someone who appeared to be violent.

Here is where it breaks down. The cameras are generally not monitored by anyone with security experience and are mostly used to see what happened after the fact. The doors are controlled by either a school secretary or a volunteer, often a grand parent. There are no working duress buttons or other forms of alarm except for the fire alarms. Of course, pulling a fire alarm would only send the kids into the hallway to evacuate, so that isn't an option during a school violence event.

Why don't we have central monitoring of the school security systems at either the school district building or the local police precinct? Why don't we have independent auditing of the security systems that we've installed to protect our kids, just to make sure they actually work?

My suspicion is that the union would block these efforts because they fear the monitoring would be used by administrators to evaluate teacher performance in the classroom.
 
#435
#435
BandVOL said:
People are trying to come up with a simple answer for a complex problem

How about we spend our money being smart?

In this journey to secure our schools perhaps we should start with advanced security
We could start with double doors with ID required with instant background checks and limited access until a background check is performed
Everyone must have an appointment or be a parent to gain admittance

Perhaps we could make it impossible to break a window from the outside
Perhaps we could are a guard in every school with a weapon
Perhaps we shoould give every first Responder including Firemen a weapon
Perhaps School authorities should have wireless internet to connect to the 300 digital cameras in the school
Perhaps we could have secure classroom doors that can be locked by a button on the desk

ALL of these things are available right now.....It takes alot of money to try and pass and enforce a weapon control ban...let's use that money on something that will help
Click to expand...

Where are we going to get that money?

What happens if you have a person on the inside is attacking children? Your plan would make children seriously easy targets.
 
#436
#436
Honey Boo Boo Vol said:
The 2nd amendment isn't just about guns, it is about all arms. Do you think private citizens should have the right to have nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, tanks, etc. ?

If this is about safeguarding against a tyrannical government, how else can you do it without individual citizens having the most potent weapons?

Or maybe, just maybe, the core of your argument is just silly.....
Click to expand...

Considering your nickname, I'm not suprised at all by your ignorance.
 
#439
#439
BandVOL said:
People are trying to come up with a simple answer for a complex problem

How about we spend our money being smart?

In this journey to secure our schools perhaps we should start with advanced security
We could start with double doors with ID required with instant background checks and limited access until a background check is performed
Everyone must have an appointment or be a parent to gain admittance

Perhaps we could make it impossible to break a window from the outside
Perhaps we could are a guard in every school with a weapon
Perhaps we shoould give every first Responder including Firemen a weapon
Perhaps School authorities should have wireless internet to connect to the 300 digital cameras in the school
Perhaps we could have secure classroom doors that can be locked by a button on the desk

ALL of these things are available right now.....It takes alot of money to try and pass and enforce a weapon control ban...let's use that money on something that will help
Click to expand...

Good start, I think a little hardening up of the buildings plus armed security would do the trick.

And for the money part, there is plenty of waste in every school system where the money could come from. Let's just see how serious these administrators are, it's alot cheaper for them just to call for bans.
 
#440
#440
PKT_VOL said:
Where are we going to get that money?

What happens if you have a person on the inside is attacking children? Your plan would make children seriously easy targets.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. At my site we've designed the security set up to trap someone in certain areas long enough for everyone to evacuate away from danger. We've also made all the rooms where you could potentially get trapped, such as conference rooms, securable from the inside. We've installed strobe lights to alert people and also have coded messages that go over the intercom system. All of this is designed to alert the workers while not tipping off the bad actor. Many schools are designed to flow visitors through the office area already, so they could do a lot of these things with little effort.

My question would be, if the business world thinks it is important enough to protect their products with these measures, why don't we think our kids are just as important?
 
#441
#441
hog88 said:
Good start, I think a little hardening up of the buildings plus armed security would do the trick.

And for the money part, there is plenty of waste in every school system where the money could come from. Let's just see how serious these administrators are, it's alot cheaper for them just to call for bans.
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There are 98,817 public schools in America. Let's lowball the costs that it would take for each school to implement such security measures, and estimate that it would only take $1,000. The cost would be $98,817,000. That is an incredibly low estimate and it is still an incredibly high cost.

Or, one could simply state that the faculty have the right to carry in school. This is their right, cost-free to the taxpayers. If you want to build regulations into it (must have a certain certification, to get such certification must complete certain training), you would still have some percentage of the faculty armed...again, at no cost to the taxpayer.
 
#442
#442
Just a quick question siince I know you have read the works by Lt Coll Grossman

Why do you not think that his plans should be allocated and funded as we did with fire control?

As you know most schools are funded at the County level with assistance from the State and Federal Governments

Why is it not possible to fund the same measures? I truly don't think this is a funding issue

Here in Georgia there was 30M allocated and borrowed for "text books" and as far as we can see now not One textbook was purchased
It seems we find the money when we have the will
The question becomes do we have the will?

therealUT said:
There are 98,817 public schools in America. Let's lowball the costs that it would take for each school to implement such security measures, and estimate that it would only take $1,000. The cost would be $98,817,000. That is an incredibly low estimate and it is still an incredibly high cost.

Or, one could simply state that the faculty have the right to carry in school. This is their right, cost-free to the taxpayers. If you want to build regulations into it (must have a certain certification, to get such certification must complete certain training), you would still have some percentage of the faculty armed...again, at no cost to the taxpayer.
Click to expand...
 
#443
#443
YorkVol said:
Not necessarily. At my site we've designed the security set up to trap someone in certain areas long enough for everyone to evacuate away from danger. We've also made all the rooms where you could potentially get trapped, such as conference rooms, securable from the inside. We've installed strobe lights to alert people and also have coded messages that go over the intercom system. All of this is designed to alert the workers while not tipping off the bad actor. Many schools are designed to flow visitors through the office area already, so they could do a lot of these things with little effort.

My question would be, if the business world thinks it is important enough to protect their products with these measures, why don't we think our kids are just as important?
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Again, those measures are good for keeping out those from the outside. They could actually do more harm that good if the attack was from someone on the inside.
 
#444
#444
I'd be willing to bet that there would be a fair number of people that could be vetted by whatever means seems appropriate that would volunteer to stand guard watching kids.
 
#445
#445
BandVOL said:
Just a quick question siince I know you have read the works by Lt Coll Grossman

Why do you not think that his plans should be allocated and funded as we did with fire control?
Click to expand...

I think that spending money on complex security measures for schools is both less effective and less efficient than simply allowing the faculty to arm themselves. Further, it is not as if any of the measures that are being called for involve the complete removal of firearms from the premise; on the contrary, they call for an armed person on the premise. There is nothing special about a school resource officer, nothing special about a law enforcement officer. There are plenty of teachers that are combat veterans (thanks to the Troops to Teachers program) and have as much if not more training and combat experience than SROs. They should certainly be allowed to carry (and, it would cost nothing). Certain training standards could be in place which, if met, could permit other faculty to carry. Again, this could all be cost free and it would be more effective than only having one armed officer.

Many suggest that arming the faculty is a poor idea because the faculty member could snap. Of course the faculty member could snap; as could the SRO. The difference is that if an SRO snaps and the faculty are not armed, then the situation is bleak as everyone must wait for other armed individuals to arrive on the scene. If the faculty are allowed to carry and one teacher snaps, there might be five to ten other individuals in the building that are armed and can effectively deal with the situation.

BandVOL said:
As you know most schools are funded at the County level with assistance from the State and Federal Governments

Why is it not possible to fund the same measures? I truly don't think this is a funding issue

Here in Georgia there was 30M allocated and borrowed for "text books" and as far as we can see now not One textbook was purchased
It seems we find the money when we have the will
The question becomes do we have the will?
Click to expand...

That $30 million is a waste of taxpayer money. I got a great education at a private school and we used incredibly old textbooks. The reason? Much of what students learn in school has not changed for decades if not centuries. New textbooks are a scam, are completely unnecessary, and are a waste of taxpayer money; as would instituting these security measures instead of just permitting teachers to carry.
 
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#446
#446
therealUT said:
There are 98,817 public schools in America. Let's lowball the costs that it would take for each school to implement such security measures, and estimate that it would only take $1,000. The cost would be $98,817,000. That is an incredibly low estimate and it is still an incredibly high cost.

Or, one could simply state that the faculty have the right to carry in school. This is their right, cost-free to the taxpayers. If you want to build regulations into it (must have a certain certification, to get such certification must complete certain training), you would still have some percentage of the faculty armed...again, at no cost to the taxpayer.
Click to expand...

I'm all for letting school faculty carry. I think the program allowing airline pilots to carry would be a good model (most people don't know that).

However there is plenty of waste in school systems to cover increased security.
 
#448
#448
BandVOL said:
i think that arming teachers is like arming pilots
It is too small of an anser to a complex
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Often times the simplest answer/solution is the best one.

There is no need to over complicate the issue. That often leads to more headaches than the "solution" is worth.
 
#449
#449
hog88 said:
However there is plenty of waste in school systems to cover increased security.
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If you could provide the same or higher levels of security at no cost to the taxpayer, then paying to institute other security measures is still a waste of the taxpayer's dollar. The fact that there is already plenty of waste in the system does not change the assertion that the security measures would be a waste of money.
 
#450
#450
therealUT said:
If you could provide the same or higher levels of security at no cost to the taxpayer, then paying to institute other security measures is still a waste of the taxpayer's dollar. The fact that there is already plenty of waste in the system does not change the assertion that the security measures would be a waste of money.
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So a basic hardning of security is a waste of money. All I'm talking about is doors, armed security/faculty, just basic measures to make it harder to gain access.

Not talking about Fort Knox measures here, there will always be waste in public school systems.
 
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