Why did you do that?

#27
#27
ufgatorfan97 said:
Looking at Kiffin's track record, currently has a losing record as a head coach. A lot of you are blaming Al Davis for that, and that has merit, but AD had comments for Kiffin that he never had for another coach, mostly along the lines of being a lying POS.
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Mike Shanahan's early career and Kiffin's have many similarities. You watch too much ESPN.
 
#28
#28
I think Vol Fans don't give enough credit to the players they lost on defense.

Here is what they lost:

Ellix Wilson = 89 tak, 1 sck, 3.5 TFL, 2 PBU, 1 INT
Nevin Mckenzie = 53 tak, 5 sck, 5 TFL, 5 PBU, 1 INT
Robert Ayers = 49 tak, 3 sck, 12.5 TFL, 1 INT
Demetrice Morley = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 2 PBU, 2 INT
DeAngelo Willingham = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 4 PBU, 3 INT
Demonte Bolden = 35 tak, 6 TFL, 1 PBU

That is a lot of production from a top 10 defense that isn't returning this year. Add in the fact that there is an entirely new coaching staff, and I think you'd have to expect that UT isn't going to be as strong on defense in 2009. Not to mention the fact that a True Freshman may be starting at MLB and Wes Brown is your current projected starter at DT...
 
#29
#29
AFL2008 said:
I think Vol Fans don't give enough credit to the players they lost on defense.

Here is what they lost:

Ellix Wilson = 89 tak, 1 sck, 3.5 TFL, 2 PBU, 1 INT
Nevin Mckenzie = 53 tak, 5 sck, 5 TFL, 5 PBU, 1 INT
Robert Ayers = 49 tak, 3 sck, 12.5 TFL, 1 INT
Demetrice Morley = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 2 PBU, 2 INT
DeAngelo Willingham = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 4 PBU, 3 INT
Demonte Bolden = 35 tak, 6 TFL, 1 PBU

That is a lot of production from a top 10 defense that isn't returning this year. Add in the fact that there is an entirely new coaching staff, and I think you'd have to expect that UT isn't going to be as strong on defense in 2009. Not to mention the fact that a True Freshman may be starting at MLB and Wes Brown is your current projected starter at DT...
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That is not a lot of production. Any group you put out there would have similar stats over 12 games. Even Ayers was awful. We generated limited turnovers because we played safe and couldn't pressure from our base D. We stopped the run, but never stuffed it. Our secondary was solid, but any of them get exposed when QBs have all day. I expect that to change based upon scheme alone.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#30
#30
AFL2008 said:
I think Vol Fans don't give enough credit to the players they lost on defense.

Here is what they lost:

Ellix Wilson = 89 tak, 1 sck, 3.5 TFL, 2 PBU, 1 INT
Nevin Mckenzie = 53 tak, 5 sck, 5 TFL, 5 PBU, 1 INT
Robert Ayers = 49 tak, 3 sck, 12.5 TFL, 1 INT
Demetrice Morley = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 2 PBU, 2 INT
DeAngelo Willingham = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 4 PBU, 3 INT
Demonte Bolden = 35 tak, 6 TFL, 1 PBU

That is a lot of production from a top 10 defense that isn't returning this year. Add in the fact that there is an entirely new coaching staff, and I think you'd have to expect that UT isn't going to be as strong on defense in 2009. Not to mention the fact that a True Freshman may be starting at MLB and Wes Brown is your current projected starter at DT...
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Take a look at our defensive rankings for 3rd down, 4th down, and redzone defense. Much of the problem can be directly attributed to soft coverage (Chavis). We could see much improvement by the change in defensive schemes.
 
#31
#31
AFL2008 said:
I think Vol Fans don't give enough credit to the players they lost on defense.

Here is what they lost:

Ellix Wilson = 89 tak, 1 sck, 3.5 TFL, 2 PBU, 1 INT
Nevin Mckenzie = 53 tak, 5 sck, 5 TFL, 5 PBU, 1 INT
Robert Ayers = 49 tak, 3 sck, 12.5 TFL, 1 INT
Demetrice Morley = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 2 PBU, 2 INT
DeAngelo Willingham = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 4 PBU, 3 INT
Demonte Bolden = 35 tak, 6 TFL, 1 PBU

That is a lot of production from a top 10 defense that isn't returning this year. Add in the fact that there is an entirely new coaching staff, and I think you'd have to expect that UT isn't going to be as strong on defense in 2009. Not to mention the fact that a True Freshman may be starting at MLB and Wes Brown is your current projected starter at DT...
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I'll say it again, all of those guys were serviceable and replaceable, the only exceptional player from the group was Ayers.

Last year's defense ranked high in yards allowed, but was pretty bad in 3rd down percentage, turnovers forced, etc. Those areas are where we will improve this years. By design, Monte's defenses are designed to give up some yards in exchange for forced turnovers. We will certainly play with more intensity and force more turnovers. The only position where we "might" drop off is DE, by replacing Ayers. All other positions will be a push, if not an improvement.
 
#32
#32
General Jack said:
I'll say it again, all of those guys were serviceable and replaceable, the only exceptional player from the group was Ayers.

Last year's defense ranked high in yards allowed, but was pretty bad in 3rd down percentage, turnovers forced, etc. Those areas are where we will improve this years. By design, Monte's defenses are designed to give up some yards in exchange for forced turnovers. We will certainly play with more intensity and force more turnovers. The only position where we "might" drop off is DE, by replacing Ayers. All other positions will be a push, if not an improvement.
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Wes Brown is not as good as Bolden. Bolden never lived up to the hype, but Wes Brown, especially with his knee problems, will probably not be as disruptive.

The MLB position will not be as strong as it was in 2008. Wilson really surprised people last year. I'll admit, I thought he was going to be garbage, but he really had a nice year.

You already mentioned the drop off with Ayers leaving. Which, I agree, is debatable.

But UT only allowed about 16 points per game last year. The defense will probably not be that good again in a transition year having lost 6 starters.
 
#33
#33
AFL2008 said:
Wes Brown is not as good as Bolden. Bolden never lived up to the hype, but Wes Brown, especially with his knee problems, will probably not be as disruptive.

The MLB position will not be as strong as it was in 2008. Wilson really surprised people last year. I'll admit, I thought he was going to be garbage, but he really had a nice year.

You already mentioned the drop off with Ayers leaving. Which, I agree, is debatable.

But UT only allowed about 16 points per game last year. The defense will probably not be that good again in a transition year having lost 6 starters.
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If Wes Brown isn't better than Bolden, we should simply leave tat spot open and add an additional DB. You're wrong here.

We will be better at MLB at shedding blocks and sill tackle better. We probably won't cover as well initially.

Ayers, while talented, really didn't stand out. We can match his production by generally changing the scheme.

We might not be as good, but it won't be a talent issue.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#34
#34
AFL2008 said:
Wes Brown is not as good as Bolden. Bolden never lived up to the hype, but Wes Brown, especially with his knee problems, will probably not be as disruptive.

The MLB position will not be as strong as it was in 2008. Wilson really surprised people last year. I'll admit, I thought he was going to be garbage, but he really had a nice year.

You already mentioned the drop off with Ayers leaving. Which, I agree, is debatable.

But UT only allowed about 16 points per game last year. The defense will probably not be that good again in a transition year having lost 6 starters.
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They stunk when it was time to get someone stopped. I expect that to change this year. No more playing 15 yards off the ball on 3rd down because someone was scared to get beat deep. You get beat deep... so what, they murdered the qb in the process. Chavis ran a timid read and react defense. Thats not whats here now. These guys are coming after that ball. Stats are for losers. Anyone that thinks that was the third best defense in the country last year needs to take their orange tinted shades off. We might miss one or two of those guys, but really 6 starters, most rotated except wilson and bolden. Thats not much turnover, find another point to build false hope that our defense will be less than solid.
 
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#35
#35
ufgatorfan97 said:
Morning.

First, you are asking me some pointed questions about what I said in another thread. I'm older than i care to admit, so my memory's not the best, and since that whole thread was deleted (sensitive much?), I can't go back and see what exactly I wrote. Having said that...

1. I'm confident I did say something about no one in their right mind betting against Florida this year. And for time's sake, I won't regurgitate the reasons, as a lot of your own brethren have already made my argument for me in this thread. Summary: lot of starters lost on UT defense, UF offense arguably the best in the land, home game for UF, UT's QB and WR play is suspect, etc. Just read the other Vol posts.

2. I'm confident I DIDN'T say anything about Kiffen being worse than Fulmer. Don't remember bringing Fulmer up at all. Looking at Kiffin's track record, currently has a losing record as a head coach. A lot of you are blaming Al Davis for that, and that has merit, but AD had comments for Kiffin that he never had for another coach, mostly along the lines of being a lying POS. But, as another poster said, there are ten or more NFL coaches that went to the college ranks and fared much better. Certainly Kiffin has that capacity, so perhaps he will eventually be better than Fulmer was. Time will tell. At least he married the daughter of a Gator. :)

3. Experts on your team? "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles." Sun Tsu, Art of War. We're probably not experts, but we do our best to stay educated about our rivals. That goes to the point I made yesterday about having open discussion with rivals, instead of blocking all rival input out. "If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat." The next line in Art of War.

4. As your other posters have already agreed, 6 lost starters on defense. Berry for Heisman. That leaves four other defenders returning. Any studs among them? Any? Any among them that, on paper, have even a chance at stopping the UF Offensive train?

5. Again, sensitive. I'm not being a jerk, I'm simply a rival sharing my opinion. When attacked, I may retaliate. That's how they ban Gators on Warchant (Seminole board) - they attack Gator posters, wait for the Gators to defend themselves, and ban for the "offensive" post. We laugh at them for their childishness. Certainly the best message board on the internet would never stoop to such behavior.

We're both fans. I expect that both of our fanbases are guilty of homerism. We each believe our teams are better than they are. That's normal. But even the outsider, on paper, has to come to the conclusion that UT little to no chance this year of beating UF. I've referenced "on paper" twice in this post, Ole Miss still hurts. Anything can happen on any given Saturday. But that doesn't mean anyone in their right mind would bet UT on Sept 19th.
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While I agree with a lot of your post, you have no clue when it comes to the wagering portion.

Vegas/bookies want the money 50/50, so they lose nothing and collect the 10% vig.

UT is getting 27 points in the early betting lines. That's a lot of points. We played much better as underdogs than favorites.

Can UF beat us by more than 27? Sure.

Can we run the ball, shorten the game, hope our D holds the UF offense down somewhat, and get the cover? Time will tell.

Look at the way the line moves before the game. If it drops from 27, then more money is coming in on UT + the points, and they are trying to get more money on UF. If it swells to 30+, then NOBODY is betting on UT, and all of the money is on UF. If it doesn't move much, then they are getting close to even money on both sides.

Your theory will be revealed in the betting lines the week of and the day of the game.
 
#36
#36
AFL2008 said:
I think Vol Fans don't give enough credit to the players they lost on defense.

Here is what they lost:

Ellix Wilson = 89 tak, 1 sck, 3.5 TFL, 2 PBU, 1 INT
Nevin Mckenzie = 53 tak, 5 sck, 5 TFL, 5 PBU, 1 INT
Robert Ayers = 49 tak, 3 sck, 12.5 TFL, 1 INT
Demetrice Morley = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 2 PBU, 2 INT
DeAngelo Willingham = 42 tak, 1 TFL, 4 PBU, 3 INT
Demonte Bolden = 35 tak, 6 TFL, 1 PBU

That is a lot of production from a top 10 defense that isn't returning this year. Add in the fact that there is an entirely new coaching staff, and I think you'd have to expect that UT isn't going to be as strong on defense in 2009. Not to mention the fact that a True Freshman may be starting at MLB and Wes Brown is your current projected starter at DT...
Click to expand...

Common sense would tell you when your offense goes 3 and out mutliple times, then the defense is on the field more often. Being on the field more often presents more opportunities to make plays.

None of the above mentioned players are irreplaceable. It's not like we lost a Reggie White, Albert Haynesworth, John Henderson, or Eric Berry type.
 
#37
#37
AFL2008 said:
Wes Brown is not as good as Bolden. Bolden never lived up to the hype, but Wes Brown, especially with his knee problems, will probably not be as disruptive.

The MLB position will not be as strong as it was in 2008. Wilson really surprised people last year. I'll admit, I thought he was going to be garbage, but he really had a nice year.

You already mentioned the drop off with Ayers leaving. Which, I agree, is debatable.

But UT only allowed about 16 points per game last year. The defense will probably not be that good again in a transition year having lost 6 starters.
Click to expand...

Sorry, just to clarify, but are you a UT or UF fan?
 
#38
#38
I can't remember bolden being very disruptive. Played soft and never lived up to the hype. The guy is a UF fan.
 
#40
#40
Cartervol said:
They stunk when it was time to get someone stopped. I expect that to change this year. No more playing 15 yards off the ball on 3rd down because someone was scared to get beat deep. You get beat deep... so what, they murdered the qb in the process. Chavis ran a timid read and react defense. Thats not whats here now. These guys are coming after that ball. Stats are for losers. Anyone that thinks that was the third best defense in the country last year needs to take their orange tinted shades off. We might miss one or two of those guys, but really 6 starters, most rotated except wilson and bolden. Thats not much turnover, find another point to build false hope that our defense will be less than solid.
Click to expand...

The defense will be good. But for all your negativity about last years defense, the unit only allowed 16.75 PPG.

I think it's a lot to ask of these players to do just as well in a transition year like this.

18-19 PPG is where they'll land IMO. Which is still a great defense, just not a top 10 unit like last year.

And yes, the unit was #10 in scoring defense in 2008.

The 3rd down defense was average, at 37.1%, that could improve I guess. Tennessee was also good in the red zone, only giving up a score 77% of the time which was good for #27 in the country. This was just a solid unit that I think will still be good, just not AS good. Slight drop off in year 1.
 
#41
#41
AFL2008 said:
The defense will be good. But for all your negativity about last years defense, the unit only allowed 16.75 PPG.

I think it's a lot to ask of these players to do just as well in a transition year like this.

18-19 PPG is where they'll land IMO. Which is still a great defense, just not a top 10 unit like last year.

And yes, the unit was #10 in scoring defense in 2008.

The 3rd down defense was average, at 37.1%, that could improve I guess. Tennessee was also good in the red zone, only giving up a score 77% of the time which was good for #27 in the country. This was just a solid unit that I think will still be good, just not AS good. Slight drop off in year 1.
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Ok, so you're telling us its not going to be as good as last year. I think everyone will agree they probably won't be statistically. They weren't bad last year, but it wasn't a dominant defense and they gave up key plays at key times that cost us some ballgames. Truth is if we have to lean on them this year like we did last were screwed anyway.
 
#42
#42
Voldaddy said:
While I agree with a lot of your post, you have no clue when it comes to the wagering portion.

Vegas/bookies want the money 50/50, so they lose nothing and collect the 10% vig.

UT is getting 27 points in the early betting lines. That's a lot of points. We played much better as underdogs than favorites.

Can UF beat us by more than 27? Sure.

Can we run the ball, shorten the game, hope our D holds the UF offense down somewhat, and get the cover? Time will tell.

Look at the way the line moves before the game. If it drops from 27, then more money is coming in on UT + the points, and they are trying to get more money on UF. If it swells to 30+, then NOBODY is betting on UT, and all of the money is on UF. If it doesn't move much, then they are getting close to even money on both sides.

Your theory will be revealed in the betting lines the week of and the day of the game.
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Touche. And I understand how Vegas works. The confusion here is that when I said bet on UT, I wasn't specifically talking Vegas and lines/points, etc. I was just speaking win/lose. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
 
#44
#44
Cartervol said:
Ok, so you're telling us its not going to be as good as last year. I think everyone will agree they probably won't be statistically. They weren't bad last year, but it wasn't a dominant defense and they gave up key plays at key times that cost us some ballgames. Truth is if we have to lean on them this year like we did last were screwed anyway.
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Based on opinions I've read on here, I thought vols fans were expecting the defense to be equal to or better than 2008.

I don't understand how people don't feel like the defense was relatively dominant. UT didn't give up a play over what, 35 yards all year long?

The unit only gave up 2.79 YPC which is good for 5th nationally. They only gave up 263 yards per game and 16.75 PPG. They were #27 in red zone defense, #45 in 3rd down conversion defense. And its not like people could pass on this D either. They allowed 8 TD and gained 17 INT and were #11 in pass efficiency defense in 2008.

This unit was tied for #17 in the country last year gaining 17 INTS. Tennessee only allowed 20 TD's all year. Only 3 teams did better. Even Florida allowed more TD's...

I really don't understand why Vols fans didn't absolutely love their defense last year. It was solid. If Tennessee had had even an average offense, Fulmer would still be there because UT would have won 10 games easy last year.

So I just don't get the lack of love for the 2008 defense.
 
#46
#46
AFL2008 said:
So I just don't get the lack of love for the 2008 defense.
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Being 10th in the SEC in 3rd down defense, or making Kevin Craft look like a Heisman contender in the 2nd half of the UCLA game, or only forcing one punt against the Gators, or the fact that our defensive stats were inflated by playing 6 of the 20 worst offenses in the country might have something to do with it.
 
#49
#49
AFL2008 said:
Based on opinions I've read on here, I thought vols fans were expecting the defense to be equal to or better than 2008.

I don't understand how people don't feel like the defense was relatively dominant. UT didn't give up a play over what, 35 yards all year long?

The unit only gave up 2.79 YPC which is good for 5th nationally. They only gave up 263 yards per game and 16.75 PPG. They were #27 in red zone defense, #45 in 3rd down conversion defense. And its not like people could pass on this D either. They allowed 8 TD and gained 17 INT and were #11 in pass efficiency defense in 2008.

This unit was tied for #17 in the country last year gaining 17 INTS. Tennessee only allowed 20 TD's all year. Only 3 teams did better. Even Florida allowed more TD's...

I really don't understand why Vols fans didn't absolutely love their defense last year. It was solid. If Tennessee had had even an average offense, Fulmer would still be there because UT would have won 10 games easy last year.

So I just don't get the lack of love for the 2008 defense.
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I'll tell you why we didn't love it last year. We were watching a rerun of 05 except with a thinner and a whole lot worse offense. Those numbers look good until you watch the games. I guess the mistakes were just magnified by how putrid the offense was. What would have been scary was the offense giving that unit some time to rest. Then they might have really been dominant. The defense did all it could for the most part and chavis did a good job while he was here. I just don;t agree on the 3rd and long defense he implemented. It got to a point when most of us longed for third and short instead of third and long. It got ridiculously predictable and teams knew how to get first downs on us.
 
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