Why did Butch Jones get us so close, where Dooley and Pruitt didn't?

#51
#51
Butch Jones did not change his offensive system to fit the roster and players that he had at his disposal.

Dobbs and Kamara and Hurd and Kelly and Barnett were players that built a strong foundation that Jones could not consistently build upon for the long haul.

His coaching decisions left a lot to be desired as well.
 
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#52
#52
Over a career at UT, only Peyton accounted for more TDs than Dobbs.

Dobbs actually had 40 total TDs his Sr year, 1 more that Peyton's Sr season.
 
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#53
#53
kckempf said:
Butch is a much better offensive coach. We also had star talent at multiple positions, notably Dobbs, Kamara, and Hurd in the backfield.
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Perhaps I'm mistaken, but why weren't these 3 in the backfield at the same time? What's a defense to do? Who to key on? I don't remember Jones ever doing that. I also remember that Kamara got running plays more suitable for Hurd and vice-versa. Pathetic.
 
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#55
#55
ScottyG210 said:
IMO Jones' success was a direct result in him being lucky enough to have several play makers on his rosters that bailed him out of some potentially bad seasons. Development was not good under his staff, he was fortunate enough to have some really good players in positions that made him look. Again, just my opinion.
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I will agree with that.
 
#56
#56
PEPPERJAX said:
Disagree

The majority of the NFL talent on that team was on the offensive side of the ball and they were the only reason we were in the games. The best player on Defense turned out to be Justin Coleman who got torched repeatedly in college. He surprisingly got drafted and played well in the NFL. AJ Johnson and Maggitt were good collegiate players but unfortunately, we did not have enough athletes like them in 2012. Daniel Hood received significant snaps as a D lineman at UT who was at one time on the OL. The defensive side had a big-time talent deficiency. An elite D coordinator might have got us two more wins. IIRC we lost to Vandy that year by 3 TDs.
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We lost to Vandy after the team quit when Rivera didn’t field the 🦵 in Starkeville. Outside of that we had a lead at one point in every game except for Fla/ Bama. And the Fla game was one possession at HT if memory serves me correctly.
 
#57
#57
Josh Dobbs was the common denominator. Usually whenever you get great production from your QB you have successful teams. We’ve seen what we were with Worley and JG. Yeah they were tough as nails but they didn’t produce. It’s the one position in team sports where you could legitimately say is the difference between winning and losing.
 
#58
#58
Brave Volunteer said:
I honestly have no clue. I haven't heard anything about him since he was dismissed from the team. I never even heard what he did to be dismissed. I just remember what a blow that was to our defense that year.
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The rumor was he'd gotten addicted to pain killers. No idea if that was true, just what was making the rounds on these boards when he was dismissed.
NO SIR EEE said:
He earned his degree in Criminal Justice from UT and now works for The Wentworth Real Estate Group in Michigan. Also a co founder of Elite Tackling Systems.
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Thanks! I'm glad he's doing well up there.
 
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#59
#59
utvols74 said:
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but why weren't these 3 in the backfield at the same time? What's a defense to do? Who to key on? I don't remember Jones ever doing that. I also remember that Kamara got running plays more suitable for Hurd and vice-versa. Pathetic.
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There were some plays that saw all three in the backfield together. Usually, though, it was one RB or the other and maybe a TE, with three or four wideouts. But I do remember Hurd and Kamara in together from time to time.
 
#61
#61
sonofUT62 said:
We lost to Vandy after the team quit when Rivera didn’t field the 🦵 in Starkeville. Outside of that we had a lead at one point in every game except for Fla/ Bama. And the Fla game was one possession at HT if memory serves me correctly.
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The team was coached by Dooley and destined to failure. We beat one SEC team the entire 2012 season.
 
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#62
#62
Had a QB, 2 biggest threats in the East were down. Actually had decent skill guys. He ran a type of offense that until the last 3 years or so the big boys weren’t running and so that helped to put up points..hypothetically, if he didn’t lose the team and had finished his last recruiting class with Martinez and penix in it, he could still be here (if one of them beat out JG in practice)... that’s if he kept it close with the rising UF’s and UGAs.. if and buts... interesting thought experiment
 
#63
#63
Otis1105 said:
Had a QB, 2 biggest threats in the East were down. Actually had decent skill guys. He ran a type of offense that until the last 3 years or so the big boys weren’t running and so that helped to put up points..hypothetically, if he didn’t lose the team and had finished his last recruiting class with Martinez and penix in it, he could still be here (if one of them beat out JG in practice)... that’s if he kept it close with the rising UF’s and UGAs.. if and buts... interesting thought experiment
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You hear that from time to time. Fact is, they were only "down" because we beat them.

I mean, Florida went 10-2 (7-1 SEC) in the regular season in 2015, then 9-3 (6-2) in 2016. Without a loss to us, they're 10-2 (7-1 SEC) both years. McElwain sucked in the SEC CG vs Bama both times, but I would not call them "down".

As for UGa, they went 10-3 (5-3 SEC) in 2015, then fired Richt and were worse in 2016. So if you want to call 2016 (Smart's first) a down year for Georgia, I'd absolutely agree.

Otherwise, we were playing well against good, solid Florida and Georgia teams. And beating them 3 of the 4 matches.

Hate on Butch if you want, but you gotta give him that. He's a big part of McElwain and Richt having to find new jobs. Well, that and Mac choking against Bama two years running. And the whole shark-humping incident. :)
 
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#64
#64
PEPPERJAX said:
The team was coached by Dooley and destined to failure. We beat one SEC team the entire 2012 season.
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That is a fact. Doesn’t preclude me from having the opinion that we could have won 4-5 more games with a halfway decent DC.
 
#66
#66
sonofUT62 said:
That is a fact. Doesn’t preclude me from having the opinion that we could have won 4-5 more games with a halfway decent DC.
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I don't believe there were enough horses on defense even if Dools would have hired a halfway decent DC. I don't even recall Wilcox shutting down a good offense when he was DC 2010-2011. Unless you want to call the 2011 CIincy team good.
 
#68
#68
VFL-82-JP said:
Never heard what became of Danny. Did he get cleaned up and take a shot at professional ball?
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He returns no results on a Spotrac search, so no NFL history. His twitter suggests that he works for the John Wentworth Group (real estate) in his home state of Michigan.
 
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#70
#70
Tman44 said:
This is an easy one. 5 wins in his first season. Then Joshua Dobbs started. Dobbs left. Insert JG. 4 wins. Botch fired. Josh Dobbs made him look good.
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I get that Dobbs was able to patch things up at times. But there’s more too it than that. Jones' first team nearly beat UGA in his first year, then beat a South Carolina who finished #4 in the polls. Which, from a rankings perspective, I believe is the best win dating back to the Fulmer era. All before Dobbs had even played a game. Also when people bring this up it’s almost as if they’re trying to push the notion that Jones inherited Dobbs and/or the other playmakers of his tenure while Pruitt was stuck with JG. I’m not saying you were, just as a whole when I read this board.

I don’t want Jones back by any means. But I think he is a better coach than some on here want him to be. From a results standpoint, he did more here than any coach Tennessee has had in the post Fulmer era.
 
#72
#72
Brave Volunteer said:
Obviously it's pretty much a consensus that our last 3 coaches weren't the answer. However for whatever reason, Butch Jones got us pretty damn close to where we wanted to be. We came SO close (and should have) to winning the east two straight years! Rather than dwelling on the reasons why Butch blew it, I would like to look at it from another point of view. What did he do right to get us that close where the other two coaches couldn't even sniff that much success? Was it recruiting? Was it motivation? Was it luck? I'm just curious as to how Butch almost touched success here where the other two weren't even close.
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Dobbs
 
#73
#73
bigdan said:
I get that Dobbs was able to patch things up at times. But there’s more too it than that. Jones' first team nearly beat UGA in his first year, then beat a South Carolina who finished #4 in the polls. Which, from a rankings perspective, I believe is the best win dating back to the Fulmer era. All before Dobbs had even played a game. Also when people bring this up it’s almost as if they’re trying to push the notion that Jones inherited Dobbs and/or the other playmakers of his tenure while Pruitt was stuck with JG. I’m not saying you were, just as a whole when I read this board.

I don’t want Jones back by any means. But I think he is a better coach than some on here want him to be. From a results standpoint, he did more here than any coach Tennessee has had in the post Fulmer era.
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I agree with you that he was much closer than the other two ever got.

The issue with Jones was his personality. He just came off as a used car salesman type. I think that the fans tolerated for a while, but once the team started skidding, he just became unbearable. It also very much appeared like he lost the respect of the team sometime in that 2017 season. So, maybe they felt the same way about him.

I'll be interested to watch one of his post-game pressers this fall to see if he has tempered the sales pitch.
 
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#75
#75
utvols74 said:
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but why weren't these 3 in the backfield at the same time? What's a defense to do? Who to key on? I don't remember Jones ever doing that. I also remember that Kamara got running plays more suitable for Hurd and vice-versa. Pathetic.
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They were used in the backfield at the same time here and there, but there weren't a lot of 2 back sets. With Hurd not interested in running FB sets and not really fond of H-back sets they didn't have a way to use them both. If there was any chance Hurd would play WR at Tennessee when he decided he was going to do that Butch should have taken him up on it.

2 RB sets aren't used a lot in college or pros anymore outside of the triple option teams with their wingbacks. Something tells me a shotgun triple option would have gotten plenty of skepticism if he had tried it.
 
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