Why aren't big city programs like Georgetown, St. John's, and DePaul more successful?

#1
J

JL24

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#1
Being an old timer, I remember when these schools were powerhouses.

With so much talent available to these programs right in their backyard, it seems almost impossible that these teams struggle to even make the tournament.

My question is, what is the culture at these universities compared to big conference schools?

Where does athletics rank at big metropolitan universities?
 
#3
#3
JL24 said:
Being an old timer, I remember when these schools were powerhouses.

With so much talent available to these programs right in their backyard, it seems almost impossible that these teams struggle to even make the tournament.

My question is, what is the culture at these universities compared to big conference schools?

Where does athletics rank at big metropolitan universities?
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Mostly because the world has shrunk and access to areas outside of those major cities is easier. The internet has provided exposure to many different options. Travel has become cheaper, easier, and more available.

The kids who primarily stuck around those areas back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s are now venturing off to other parts of the country. The profiles of other universities is expanding and becoming more attractive.
 
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#5
#5
JL24 said:
Being an old timer, I remember when these schools were powerhouses.

With so much talent available to these programs right in their backyard, it seems almost impossible that these teams struggle to even make the tournament.

My question is, what is the culture at these universities compared to big conference schools?

Where does athletics rank at big metropolitan universities?
Click to expand...

Along with the points mentioned above, coaches were also a big part of it. Lou Carnesecca at St. John's (1965-1992), Ray Meyer at DePaul (1942-1984), and John Thompson at Georgetown (1972-1999). Much of these teams' success came under these coaches.
 
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#6
#6
Bms4880 said:
Along with the points mentioned above, coaches were also a big part of it. Lou Carnesecca at St. John's (1965-1992), Ray Meyer at DePaul (1942-1984), and John Thompson at Georgetown (1972-1999). Much of these teams' success came under these coaches.
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John Chaney at Temple is another. Jack Ramsey at St. Joseph's.
 
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#7
#7
cncchris33 said:
Mostly because the world has shrunk and access to areas outside of those major cities is easier. The internet has provided exposure to many different options. Travel has become cheaper, easier, and more available.

The kids who primarily stuck around those areas back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s are now venturing off to other parts of the country. The profiles of other universities is expanding and becoming more attractive.
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I don’t think world-shrinking, program-expanding, or airline prices are the fundamentals driving school choices for basketball players. Kids pick coaches over any variable. Kids are not going to Auburn for tradition. They also aren’t going small Catholic colleges like Villanova, Gonzaga, St. John’s or Georgetown for the city or the music scene. When Mark Few, or Jay Wright run your program, you get good kids. Places like Kentucky or UCLA get to add a cup of tradition into the recipe, but basketball kids typically follow coaches.
 
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#9
#9
Some of it is coaching/recruiting--or lack thereof. John Thompson's son did a poor job at Georgetown, and I doubt that Patrick Ewing will
do much better. But beyond that, I also think it's a conference thing. The Big East used to be THE conference in basketball (along with the ACC)--but not anymore. Now, collegiate sports is dominated by Power 5 conferences and their member schools--and the absurd, greed-driven growth of P5 conferences has hurt all the other conferences and their members. Chicago, DePaul's home city, is a hotbed of basketball, but big-name Big 10 schools--Illinois, Michigan, Mich. State, others--pick off most of the top talent in that city and throughout the Midwest. P5 teams get a lot more TV and general BB exposure than Big East teams. Sure, you can stream any game online now--but P5 teams dominate the nationally televised network games. The P5 conferences are the big dogs, and the top prospects know it.
 
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#10
#10
Ewing is like 6-18, this year, he should be fired. Although, I think they give Ewing one more year, just because of who he is and what he means to Georgetown
 
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#11
#11
The Dog said:
Ewing is like 6-18, this year, he should be fired. Although, I think they give Ewing one more year, just because of who he is and what he means to Georgetown
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Which is a big mistake. He isn’t turning things around. Next year is Year 6. If you give him another year after he has the WORST season in Georgetown history, you might as well just admit you’re too afraid to fire him and you care more about his feelings than Georgetown basketball and keep him on till he retires.
 
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#12
#12
Most of the schools being referenced are small to medium sized Jesuit/Dominican/Agustin Catholic Universities. In the old days basketball was the one sport they could afford to be passionate about. In the 40’s -90’s you only needed a ball and a gym. They’d hire a good coach, and ride it for twenty years. It’s harder now. They need to promise a path to the NBA, time on TV, and facilities. It takes a rockstar coach or a world-beating talent scout to overcome that.
 
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#13
#13
TheMookieMonster said:
Which is a big mistake. He isn’t turning things around. Next year is Year 6. If you give him another year after he has the WORST season in Georgetown history, you might as well just admit you’re too afraid to fire him and you care more about his feelings than Georgetown basketball and keep him on till he retires.
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Damn, I didn't realize it's already year 5, yeah, you are right, big mistake. I still want Ryan Mutombo
 
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#14
#14
Georgetown should have hired Dan Hurley. I think he would have taken it. Instead they made the mistake of thinking a former great player will automatically make a great coach. Same w Mullin at St Johns.
 
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#15
#15
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Most of the schools being referenced are small to medium sized Jesuit/Dominican/Agustin Catholic Universities. In the old days basketball was the one sport they could afford to be passionate about. In the 40’s -90’s you only needed a ball and a gym. They’d hire a good coach, and ride it for twenty years. It’s harder now. They need to promise a path to the NBA, time on TV, and facilities. It takes a rockstar coach or a world-beating talent scout to overcome that.
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Meh, there are a lot of D1 basketball programs in the same boat that do fine. The point is even relative to them they have done very poorly in recent history.
 
#16
#16
golfballs said:
Meh, there are a lot of D1 basketball programs in the same boat that do fine. The point is even relative to them they have done very poorly in recent history.
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You say, “the point” but then don’t make one. What are you trying to say.
 
#19
#19
TheMookieMonster said:
Which is a big mistake. He isn’t turning things around. Next year is Year 6. If you give him another year after he has the WORST season in Georgetown history, you might as well just admit you’re too afraid to fire him and you care more about his feelings than Georgetown basketball and keep him on till he retires.
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In his fifth season, Ewing boasts a 68-65 overall record, one NCAA Tournament appearance and one Big East tournament title. Improvement next season could spell his final season.
 
#20
#20
Coaching is really the big issue. But for Georgetown i think their downfall started about the time Syracuse and Pittsburgh leaving for the ACC.
 
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#22
#22
SlyStone said:
Tarkanian at UNLV
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Prior to Tarkanian, UNLV practically didn't even exist as a basketball school. They have had success there since with other coaches like Lon Kruger, but their brightest and most successful time as a national power was while Tarkanian was the coach.
 
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#23
#23
It can still happen- Villanova is a “big city” university (Philadelphia) that has been very successful in recent years. Houston is another example. The key obviously is having great coaches. I could see the script flipping very easily to Georgetown & St. John’s being good and Houston and Villanova being mediocre depending who is the head coach in the coming years.
 
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#24
#24
JL24 said:
Being an old timer, I remember when these schools were powerhouses.

With so much talent available to these programs right in their backyard, it seems almost impossible that these teams struggle to even make the tournament.

My question is, what is the culture at these universities compared to big conference schools?

Where does athletics rank at big metropolitan universities?
Click to expand...

Probably because most players want to get out of those $hitholes.
 
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